Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum STEINWAY Model A, 85 notes, #68200

Friends:

Do any of you have any thoughts, pro or con, on acquiring such a piano ?
I've played a few, mainly in my childhood, and don't remember anything negative about them.
Rather, the contrary.
This job, made in Astoria in the middle 1890s, has recently received a thorough, careful and complete rebuilding.

If you're inclined to weigh-in on this, I'd be very grateful.

Karl Watson,
Staten Island, NY

The advantage of buying an 85 noter is that they usually sell for significantly less than an 88 note model. The main disadvantage IMO is mostly psychological, since the actual disadvantage of not having the last three notes is very small. To me it's akin to buying a piano with no sostenuto pedal unless you're someone who uses that pedal frequently.

I have an 1887 model A serial number 61237, restored (for the second time) about 3 years ago. I can't think of any piece I've played that I really noticed the top 3 notes were missing. The bass is great on these - much richer than the "O" or the "L". I can't think of a downside if it's been restored properly.

Paul.

I don't think it's the same. Some fairly mainstream music requires the higher notes.

Which pieces? None of the ABRSM repetoire up to Grade 8 requires it (and this is often stated by Roberts Pianos in the UK in their videos).

Paul.

See also https://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...he-highest-and-or-lowest-piano-keys.html - many pieces use "bottom A" - but hardly any use anything above "top A".

Paul.

Prokofiev uses the top B flat in the Toccata and Ravel uses it in Jeaux d'Eau (A#).
Ravel uses the top B in Scarbo.
Prokofiev uses the top C in the 3rd Concerto.

While these are not grade pieces, I think the important point is that they are by mainstream composers.

85 keys isn't an issue until it is. Despite what pyropaul says, there are a number of pieces that utilize the top 3 notes. If you don't like to play anything newer than about 1900, then it shouldn't be an issue. I will also say that if you're used to playing on an 88 key keyboard then even getting close to the top octave can be visually disorienting on an 85 key keyboard.

Not sure what you mean by mainstream. I do know that in past threads people were not able to name more than a handful of pieces using the top three notes.

If you're a good player you are surely not looking at the keyboard anyway? I've played on 60, 76, 85 and 88 note keyboards and have never felt disoriented. If ever I need top C (which I haven't so far) then I would stomp my foot ... for most pianos this would be approximately the same sound anyway

Paul

I would consider Prokofiev and Ravel mainstream.

Rhapsody in Blue goes up to the top B.

This would be one of the last 85 note As. The Official Guide to Steinway Pianos lists a lower number as the last 85 note New York A.

Yes, I'm talking about looking at the keyboard i.e. visually disorienting. I'm not talking about playing in bands, I'm talking classical. When you glance up and see 2 black keys, you immediately think C D E for the white keys, not F G A. If you're not ready for it, it can throw you for a loop. That's all I'm saying.

I doubt if stomping your foot would work for the high B in Rzewsk's piece no 4.

BTW, I've never heard of a 60 note keyboard.

The foot stomp thing was a joke and an allusion to all the hammer thump sounds in the upper octave I guess you've never played an F-F harpsichord When I look at the keyboard I look at the penultimate octave of the "jump" not the one above. But that's just me - most of the time I don't need to look.

Paul

I and the thread I mentioned was talking about the number of compositions requiring an 88 note compass and not whether the composers were mainstream.

The pieces I mentioned are amongst the most popular in the standard repertoire.

I don't have a large repertoire by any stretch of the imagination, yet I can think of four pieces that I've studied that use the upper notes. I assume there are plenty of others.

Friends:

I could care less about the top three notes, but I'd be sorry that friends couldn't play Scarbo on it, although I'm not sure that it would stop them !
My concern here is about the piano itself. If one were to consider a vintage A, should one be looking for a more mature development of the design (Henry Ziegler) ?
Are there any problems in this presumably first-generation design ( C F Theodore ) ?

What do you think ?

KMW

Remember I said there was a not-short thread about this, and between all the posters there was only a handful of pieces named using the top three notes. One more that I know is the Debussy Prelude The Plains of Anacapri.

It certainly depends.

If the piano itself is crap, sounds like crap, plays like crap, then 85 keys is a showstopper.

If it's a great piano, then even great pianists won't mind the one or two notes missing.

I've never been a fan of the A-I model, either the 85 or 88 key versions. The problem for me is the tenor transition bridge and especially the wound trichords, which seem incapable of producing clean sounding unisons. The tone of all the strings on this bridge also have a different and unpleasant quality when compared to the rest of the piano. I rescaled one once and changed the trichords to bichords, but it didn't seem to change the sound quality in this area.