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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Chrispy #2871690 07/23/19 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Chrispy
That’s all very strange. I’m guessing most of us saw the vendor. I don’t get why they would suppress it and also embarrass a customer.

Since JJHLH was the one that raised this issue of doubting Onyx's price in the first place, that he is satisfied with Onyx's copy of the invoice is strong evidence for me that Onyx was on the up and up and the vendor was out of order here.

I am happy for Onyx that he got a low price and not envious at all myself. I paid more for my N1X than he did by a good amount, but I've never felt myself to be a good negotiator, so it is what it is.


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"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2871694 07/23/19 02:08 AM
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I also paid a high initial price but then I had my piano just a week after I ordered it and Thomann were OK to have my NU1X back and refund it fully. And I've always been terrible in negotiations and I myself prefer paying more but have the thing when I want it... laugh


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Tyrone Slothrop #2871696 07/23/19 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I am happy for Onyx that he got a low price and not envious at all myself.


Amen!

Folk need to remember...

Don't hate, just congratulate, and someday you might be able to participate. grin

God bless,
David

Last edited by David B; 07/23/19 02:28 AM.

Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
JJHLH #2871725 07/23/19 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by JJHLH
I’ve been private messaging Onyx and he showed me his invoice. I can confirm that he did in fact pay $6988 for an N1X. I won’t mention the vendor’s name as there were some special circumstances involved with his purchase. I think we can put this issue behind us now. Thank you Onyx for clarifying things, and enjoy your new piano!


Keep in mind that the dealer is sizing you up from the minute you set foot in the store.
It seems like Onyx’s ‘bluff’ must’ve paid off, and the dealer caved in. If they catch your I’m-walking-out bluff, you will not get the special of the day; as a matter of fact, you might actually get stiffed without notice and/or lubrication. This shows how much room there is for negotiation.
I can assure you that some sucker has paid close to the MSRP for this instrument and, in the process, got stiffed without lubrication, ouch! cry

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
JJHLH #2871737 07/23/19 05:26 AM
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I think this whole thing stinks.
Originally Posted by JJHLH
I’ve been private messaging Onyx and he showed me his invoice. I can confirm that he did in fact pay $6988 for an N1X. I won’t mention the vendor’s name as there were some special circumstances involved with his purchase. I think we can put this issue behind us now. Thank you Onyx for clarifying things, and enjoy your new piano!
I don't think anything has been clarified. Indeed, things are still "muddy".

What are these "special circumstances"? I know you won't say, and I presume that the silence on that matter originates with Onyx. So the onus is on Onyx.

Other people have posted prices paid without mentioning the vendor. This could be just another such case.
There would be no hubbub if not for the fact that a vendor was named, and that vendor has denied the sale.
(For those of you who did not see all of this, be aware that the relevant posts lived only a short time before being removed.)

So there's a bit dishonesty here. Who's telling the truth and who's not? I don't know. And I mostly don't care, either.

It's only the anomalously low selling price that makes give this affair relevance.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2871749 07/23/19 06:03 AM
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Perhaps Rich Galassini would be willing to post an explanation?


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Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
MacMacMac #2871765 07/23/19 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
What are these "special circumstances"? I know you won't say, and I presume that the silence on that matter originates with Onyx. So the onus is on Onyx.

MacMacMac, I think you are unfairly weighing the vendor's comments more than that of a buyer here.

Only that buyer has shown an invoice to a third-party (JJHLH) who was the original one to dispute the price in a manner that satisfied that party, while the vendor has shown jack **** wink . I admire that you MacMacMac, are the first to say that all salespeople (and perhaps vendors?) lie and push that narrative, but aren't you now questioning a buyer who has provided more evidence for third party review, than you are questioning the vendor, who has, to my knowledge, has not had any third party known to us review the evidence behind his assertion? After all, don't all salespeople lie? Shouldn't we assume they are lying when their mouths open? smile

Recall that the buyer has not attacked anyone over this issue and is posting mild-mannered comments, while the vendor has definitely attacked the buyer in actions (asking for forum message deletions) and words. Why does that buyer then deserve comments like "this whole thing stinks" and the like?


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Tyrone Slothrop #2871810 07/23/19 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
What are these "special circumstances"? I know you won't say, and I presume that the silence on that matter originates with Onyx. So the onus is on Onyx.

MacMacMac, I think you are unfairly weighing the vendor's comments more than that of a buyer here.

Only that buyer has shown an invoice to a third-party (JJHLH) who was the original one to dispute the price in a manner that satisfied that party, while the vendor has shown jack **** wink .


Mac's got a point. If you present a price paid that's well below what everyone else has paid knowing that there were "special circumstances" that enabled you to get the ultra low price, and you choose not to disclose the fact that there were "special circumstances," that does seem a bit misleading.

It especially seems misleading if people are asking you, "how did you get such a great price" and you essentially say, "that's just what I paid."

I understand what Mac is saying. If it were me, I would have disclosed the fact that the price paid was an anomaly based on "special circumstances." The special circumstances can be kept private if necessary. At least people wouldn't expect to get the same price from the vender like they did after Onyx's post.

God Bless,
David

Last edited by David B; 07/23/19 08:40 AM.

Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Duane Shinn - 52 Week Crash Course - Completed
Duane Shinn - Praise and Gospel Course - In Progress
Greg Howlett - Inspirational Improvisation - In Progress
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2871821 07/23/19 08:55 AM
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I forgot to add that when I was considering an NV10, I contacted a vender based on the price paid posted by a customer in the price paid thread. The vender was willing to give me the same deal he gave the other forum member.

My point is that the price paid thread can help people to find deals and know what is the going rate in their area.

God bless,
David


Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Duane Shinn - 52 Week Crash Course - Completed
Duane Shinn - Praise and Gospel Course - In Progress
Greg Howlett - Inspirational Improvisation - In Progress
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2871832 07/23/19 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by David B
Mac's got a point. If you present a price paid that's well below what everyone else has paid knowing that there were "special circumstances" that enabled you to get the ultra low price, and you choose not to disclose the fact that there were "special circumstances," that does seem a bit misleading.

It especially seems misleading if people are asking you, "how did you get such a great price" and you essentially say, "that's just what I paid."

I understand what Mac is saying. If it were me, I would have disclosed the fact that the price paid was an anomaly based on "special circumstances." The special circumstances can be kept private if necessary. At least people wouldn't expect to get the same price from the vender like they did after Onyx's post.

God Bless,
David

Fair enough. But MacMacMac essentially "owns" the Price Paid thread nowadays. Perhaps given this issue, a field should be added to his form there called: "Special Circumstances:" where at least buyers can indicate if there was some special circumstance which resulted in a special low price, even if they don't detail what those circumstances specifically were.

That way, the next buyer who was owed by a dealer after a particularly memorable poker game, or who had a dealer run over their petunia bed, can simply indicate that they got a special deal not available to most others.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2871845 07/23/19 09:47 AM
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I worked in retail sporting goods for a few years. That is not so different from piano retail, although piano equipment can be more expensive and sales people are typically on commission.

Special circumstances are unusual but happen from time to time and those prices are not relevant for us IMHO.

This might be a current / former Yamaha employee, store employee, supplier employee, or family discount. Alternatively, the customer might have had a terrible experience with a prior purchase so received a Yamaha credit or store credit (which may be unrelated to the current retailer). Most of these scenarios are under NDA, meaning they must be kept secret.

Maybe there was a local charity raffle or contest.

At the sports shop, on occasion sports equipment was offered to employees at wholesale cost or much less. On rare occasions, equipment was given for free via some contest.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2871846 07/23/19 09:50 AM
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My intent has certainly not been to mislead anyone. I do apologize if it has come off that way. I don't really want to discuss this openly where all vendors can see and further agitate the situation, but as I said in an earlier post anyone who wants clarification is more than welcome to pm me...

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2871848 07/23/19 09:55 AM
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TS: I do not own the prices paid thread. It is open to all users. (I do keep a spreadsheet of the data ... but the data can come from anyone who cares to post it.)

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
MacMacMac, I think you are unfairly weighing the vendor's comments more than that of a buyer here.
I do not weigh either Onyx nor the vendor more than the other ...

1. Onyx seems open to revealing the price of the piano. He has revealed it to JJHLH and has also offered to show me the receipt.
2. Cunningham has a respectable reputation on this board going back for years and years.

Yet each party made a claim that conflicts with the other party. So I'm just puzzled by the whole affair.
Who to believe? I don't think I care anymore.

The original posts have been deleted. All that's left is this notion of "special circumstances", which will not be revealed.
So I'm left thinking that this low-priced N1X is an outlier ... one that I would not consider when looking to buy an N1X (which you know I might do in the not-too-distant future).

That's all for me on this subject ... barring any further revelations when Mueller testifies before Congress tomorrow.
Maybe there has been some obstruction of piano sales? smile

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2871868 07/23/19 11:12 AM
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I haven’t played through speakers for quite a long time. And I’m already pretty used to the wonderful binaural sound through headphones. So, I had the chance to play a bit without headphones for the last 30 minutes and change patches. Here are my thoughts:
- The default CFX through speakers is indeed very soft and dark, slightly muffled. It’s very different than the binaural patch that is clear, direct and bright. At first I didn’t like it much TBH. But after a while I could adapt and it I didn’t find anything wrong with it. I was just too used to the direct and bright sound with headphones. I think by default the N1X through speakers reminds a grand piano with closed lid. I can understand people who might prefer a brighter sound.
- The patch 2 (main Bosendorfer) is comparable although I still prefer the CFX.
- The brighter Bosendorfer (patch 4) is the one for people who seek a slightly brighter and more open sound. But I still find the main CFX having the thickest and woodiest type of velvet quality to it. I play mostly lyrical romantic pieces though. For something more virtuoso or modern, this patch 4 might be better.

- EVERY piano patch, besides the famous binaural CFX, sounds like total cr*p with headphones! I’ve already discussed that on a separate thread but I can’t believe Yamaha decided to leave it like that. I guess the reason is the 4-channel sampling optimized for speakers being difficult to mix down to stereo for headphones. I’m so glad they made the binaural patch. I can live with it for the rest of my life smile But they should certainly make binaural versions of the Bosendorfer and other models in their next digital pianos.

Last edited by CyberGene; 07/23/19 11:14 AM.

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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
CyberGene #2872004 07/23/19 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I haven’t played through speakers for quite a long time. And I’m already pretty used to the wonderful binaural sound through headphones. So, I had the chance to play a bit without headphones for the last 30 minutes and change patches. Here are my thoughts:
- The default CFX through speakers is indeed very soft and dark, slightly muffled. It’s very different than the binaural patch that is clear, direct and bright. At first I didn’t like it much TBH. But after a while I could adapt and it I didn’t find anything wrong with it. I was just too used to the direct and bright sound with headphones. I think by default the N1X through speakers reminds a grand piano with closed lid. I can understand people who might prefer a brighter sound.
- The patch 2 (main Bosendorfer) is comparable although I still prefer the CFX.
- The brighter Bosendorfer (patch 4) is the one for people who seek a slightly brighter and more open sound. But I still find the main CFX having the thickest and woodiest type of velvet quality to it. I play mostly lyrical romantic pieces though. For something more virtuoso or modern, this patch 4 might be better.

- EVERY piano patch, besides the famous binaural CFX, sounds like total cr*p with headphones! I’ve already discussed that on a separate thread but I can’t believe Yamaha decided to leave it like that. I guess the reason is the 4-channel sampling optimized for speakers being difficult to mix down to stereo for headphones. I’m so glad they made the binaural patch. I can live with it for the rest of my life smile But they should certainly make binaural versions of the Bosendorfer and other models in their next digital pianos.


Great description CyberGene. Since you are so pleased with the binaural CFX do you still find a use for the Garritan CFX, or has it been completely replaced?


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2872007 07/23/19 04:45 PM
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Well, there are two reasons to not use Garritan CFX (yet): I need my piano corner as neat and tidy as possible since the N1X is already taking more place than was initially planned for a piano in our living room and so I can’t afford a computer and more cables there. And then the binaural CFX is so good! But Gartitan is still good. A few weeks ago I recorded a comparison between the Yamaha, Gartitan and two Pianoteq presets and I was pleasantly surprised how the Gartitan CFX fared against the Yamaha. And I think from a purely listener perspective it might even be better. Where it steps down is in the ultimate playability compared to the N1X but that being said, it’s still very playable. And as I’ve said previously, it’s more playable than Pianoteq in my opinion.

I’ve already passed the honeymoon period with my N1X and I love it more than ever but I already started prepping up things for finishing my DIY controller where Gartitan CFX will find good use smile


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2872015 07/23/19 05:15 PM
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I found another reason not to use Garritan CFX ... it's broken. frown
The only reason I can think of is that Windows 10 updated yesterday:
KB4507419
KB4465065
KB4507469

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Bro' #2872655 07/25/19 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Bro'

Question for the club : who use a piano lamp on the N1X and which one? Clip or foot?


Hi Bro',
I am asking myself the same question. I want to buy a lamp too for my N1X but I don't know which one to choose. Clip or not? Maybe N1X owners here can help us to choose the perfect one or give us some ideas...


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Bro'
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Bro' #2872662 07/25/19 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Bro'
Originally Posted by Bro'

Question for the club : who use a piano lamp on the N1X and which one? Clip or foot?


Hi Bro',
I am asking myself the same question. I want to buy a lamp too for my N1X but I don't know which one to choose. Clip or not? Maybe N1X owners here can help us to choose the perfect one or give us some ideas...


I don’t own an N1X but I like this lamp and it seems to get good reviews from pianists:

Adesso 5090-22 Esquire 13"-19" LED Desk Lamp, Smart Outlet Compatible, 5.5" x 19.0" x 19.0", Satin Steel https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007RM4HIA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_lKFoDbMSGFEYH

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2872664 07/25/19 01:50 PM
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The N1X has a huge available shelf-space. I would probably be looking for a pedestal (or a floor stand) as opposed to something that clips onto the music desk.


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