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At first I thought that the soft-pedal (first pedal on the left) that on an acoustic grand piano switches to una-corda timbre, on my recently bought digital piano (Kawai CN37) did nothing... Then I noticed that if I press the keys at forte/fortissimo, the sound plays always at a normal velocity. So the soft-pedal, on my digital piano, works like a sort of limiter on the highest velocity layers, or maybe is just a simple filter that cuts the highest frequencies, but the timbre doesn't change. That's very different from a real una-corda pedal feeling.
I thought that recent digital pianos had una-corda samples too. Honestly, I'm a little disappointed, but at least I know I can use that pedal with a VST with real una-corda samples.
Maybe there are some instruments (from the library of about 350 sounds) that use that pedal for some special effect?
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Sounds like this may just reduce the midi velocity generated by the key strike.
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That pedal makes a difference on my Casio AP-650 but it's not a huge difference -- it doesn't cut the volume by half or anything like that. It works at lower volumes than "hammering" but the difference is quite subtle if you're playing softly to begin with.
If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend! We got both kinds of music: Country and Western! Casio Celviano AP-650
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Sounds very strange. I don't know on CN37, but on top-level DPs that I played (mainly Yamaha and Kawai) I noted a good response pressing left pedal. Maybe other members could explain better.
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Yep, top digitals DO have simulated una corda sound. CN37 might not, I don't know, it's not top digital, I'd say it's medium grade.
Roland LX708
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I ask confirm if the CA series and all those with HI-XL engine have specific samples for una-corda sound too or they apply just a low-pass filter and/or velocity limiter. I found no references on this matter on the official manuals or the brochures. What the manuals say for the soft-pedal is exactly the same for the CN and the CA recent series... No reference about una-corda samples...
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My CA98 unacorda does its job and I can even adjust the pedal depth in virtual technician
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Unfortunately una corda is rarely mentioned in digital piano info BUT I can confirm it works well in all top digital pianos of all manufacturers. Top meaning price around 2000$ and up.
Roland LX708
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My CA98 unacorda does its job and I can even adjust the pedal depth in virtual technician I too can adjust the pedal depth in the Virtual Technician options. But on my CN37 all it does that option is lowering the max velocity I can reach when play forte/fortissimo. I hear no differences in the timbre if I play at piano or normal velocity with left pedal pressed down, no real una-corda samples and no filtering either. Just a velocity limit. By the way, the default value of "3" for the soft-pedal depth is too low to me. I have to raise to 8 to make it somehow useful. Do you confirm on your CA98 you feel "completely different samples" when you press down the left pedal? It would be very strange that they do not advertise they have distinct una-corda samples in the higher models digital pianos...
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My CA98 unacorda does its job and I can even adjust the pedal depth in virtual technician I too can adjust the pedal depth in the Virtual Technician options. But on my CN37 all it does that option is lowering the max velocity I can reach when play forte/fortissimo. I hear no differences in the timbre if I play at piano or normal velocity with left pedal pressed down, no real una-corda samples and no filtering either. Just a velocity limit. By the way, the default value of "3" for the soft-pedal depth is too low to me. I have to raise to 8 to make it somehow useful. Do you confirm on your CA98 you feel "completely different samples" when you press down the left pedal? It would be very strange that they do not advertise they have distinct una-corda samples in the higher models digital pianos... Hi Magicpiano, Try two things: 1) Do a factory reset 2) Check to see if there are any firmware updates, and if so, upgrade to the new version. Just to see if anybody had changed the settings prior to you buying the instrument. Kind regards, Doug.
Instruments......Kawai MP7SE.............................................(Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000) Software..........Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8 Stand...............K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand Piano stool.......K&M 14093 Piano stool
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Hi Doug, I have the last firmware version and unfortunately a factory reset doesn't help.
I think there are no una-corda samples in my digital piano, so the developers simply made the left pedal work as a velocity limiter to make you play more soft even if you press hard on the keys.
P.S.: no one told me yet if they feel true una-corda samples when they use the left pedal on their digital pianos...
Last edited by magicpiano; 07/25/19 08:46 AM.
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Fortunately, most of the popular piano plugins have una corda mode. In Garritan CFX and Ravenscroft 275 it is gorgeous and sounds as good or even better than the main piano tone. If I'm not mistaken, Pianoteq does not have it.
Last edited by Andrew_G; 07/25/19 09:54 AM.
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Fortunately, most of the popular piano plugins have una corda mode. In Garritan CFX and Ravenscroft 275 it is gorgeous and sounds as good or even better than the main piano tone. If I'm not mistaken, Pianoteq does not have it.
Pianoteq has una-corda mode too. Of course is modeled, not sampled, so it uses some algorithms to change the phase and frequencies of the overtones to emulate the una-corda sound. Some years ago I bought "Ivory II American Concert D" VST package. It's a beautiful and warm vintage Stainway D piano sound and it has real una-corda samples too. I have yet to try how it plays on the keyboard of my CN37, because the PC where I installed it, actually it's far from this piano (and I don't have space near the piano to put a PC case), so for now I can use it only on a cheap semi-weighted keyboard I have near the PC. I think in the near future I will build a mini-PC and will place it near the CN37, so that I'll be able to play the nice Ivory II piano on it. From various videos I think I like the Ravenscroft sound too. Maybe I should try it. Is it playable as the Ivory II Vintage D?
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My CA98 unacorda does its job and I can even adjust the pedal depth in virtual technician I too can adjust the pedal depth in the Virtual Technician options. But on my CN37 all it does that option is lowering the max velocity I can reach when play forte/fortissimo. I hear no differences in the timbre if I play at piano or normal velocity with left pedal pressed down, no real una-corda samples and no filtering either. Just a velocity limit. By the way, the default value of "3" for the soft-pedal depth is too low to me. I have to raise to 8 to make it somehow useful. Do you confirm on your CA98 you feel "completely different samples" when you press down the left pedal? It would be very strange that they do not advertise they have distinct una-corda samples in the higher models digital pianos... I recently jumped on my piano and I just discovered that it produced the same timbre but at different level of velocity. So I just assume it is just the same sample. In Pianist Mode I found the una corda sounded somehow more natural. I am not sure if it is because the sample is better or special "tweaks" in Pianist Mode. That's just my observation and opinion, I don't have the data. Let's wait for Kawai James to join us
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I recently jumped on my piano and I just discovered that it produced the same timbre but at different level of velocity. So I just assume it is just the same sample.
In Pianist Mode I found the una corda sounded somehow more natural. I am not sure if it is because the sample is better or special "tweaks" in Pianist Mode.
That's just my observation and opinion, I don't have the data. Let's wait for Kawai James to join us Thanks for your info. 1-corda samples would double the space required for the samples, and that for each of the main grand piano sounds (SK-EX, SK-5, EX), so I guess they used this trick to avoid to use a bigger flashrom to store the samples. Maybe in Pianist Mode there are different resonances added when you press the left pedal.
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1-corda samples would double the space required for the samples, and that for each of the main grand piano sounds (SK-EX, SK-5, EX), so I guess they used this trick to avoid to use a bigger flashrom to store the samples.
That's the rub with samples, isn't it? If you regular samples consisting of multiple velocity layers, you need attack, decay key-off, smooth release, and other various components for each, and then you need to replicate all or some of them for your sustain samples. Add soft samples, and you have to do everything again unless you "fudge" it with filters/models. Then, you recall that you can have soft + sustain down at the same time! After a few rounds of this, I bet the full physical modeling route really starts to look promising
Bosendorfer D214VC ENPro Past: Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11, Kawai NV10
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Maybe the digital felt on the digital hammers on your digital piano haven't hardened enough yet for there to be any significant timbre difference with the una corda pedal in use.
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That's the rub with samples, isn't it? If you regular samples consisting of multiple velocity layers, you need attack, decay key-off, smooth release, and other various components for each, and then you need to replicate all or some of them for your sustain samples. Add soft samples, and you have to do everything again unless you "fudge" it with filters/models. Then, you recall that you can have soft + sustain down at the same time! After a few rounds of this, I bet the full physical modeling route really starts to look promising "Hahaha" - Roland Corporation and Modartt
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From various videos I think I like the Ravenscroft sound too. Maybe I should try it. Is it playable as the Ivory II Vintage D?
It is playable as good as Garritan CFX and Ivory II AKG (which I like less). Be aware that Ravenscroft is quite demanding concerning computer resources. For example, some pedal-sustained notes may stop sounding if you play too many notes with depressed pedal, especially when using all mics. Today I find Garritan CFX (full) more rich and inspiring, although the beauty of una corda mode in Ravenscroft is unbeatable.
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That's the rub with samples, isn't it? If you regular samples consisting of multiple velocity layers, you need attack, decay key-off, smooth release, and other various components for each, and then you need to replicate all or some of them for your sustain samples. Add soft samples, and you have to do everything again unless you "fudge" it with filters/models. Then, you recall that you can have soft + sustain down at the same time! After a few rounds of this, I bet the full physical modeling route really starts to look promising All of that requires just the double size of whatever flashrom size you have in a digital piano. Considering that flashrom in our digital pianos currently are not very big (the Kawai CS8, for example, that is not much different from the current top models, uses a flashrom of 512MB) I think that double this size would not be so costly for the manufacturer as it would be to use a single-board powerful enough to generate a good modeled piano sound with decent polyphony. So, I think that as long as sampling-technology is cheaper, they will continue to use it. When a strong enough CPU will cost less than a 512MB flashrom, than I'm sure you will see modeled piano sound engines used in cheap keyboards too.
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:34 PM
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Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:23 PM
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