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Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys
#2871891 07/23/19 01:17 PM
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Hello,


Which one do you guys think it’s the closer keyboard to a Grand Piano ?

I feel the Kawai Grand Feel II touch a bit soft / spongy feeling

Thanks for your reviews. Currently hesitating between CA78 and HP704.

Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys
Randompianist2 #2871895 07/23/19 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Randompianist2
Hello,


Which one do you guys think it’s the closer keyboard to a Grand Piano ?

I feel the Kawai Grand Feel II touch a bit soft / spongy feeling

Thanks for your reviews. Currently hesitating between CA78 and HP704.

There is no one grand piano touch. Both of these pianos are fine so go with what suits you best.


Roland LX706

South Wales, UK
Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys
Randompianist2 #2871896 07/23/19 01:33 PM
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Really close in action IMHO. Choose which one you like best. Roland folded action and Kawai pivot action.
I liked Kawai action better before the PHA-50 came out. Now I really do believe they are so close pick the one you like best.


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys
Randompianist2 #2871898 07/23/19 01:41 PM
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Also I’m considering the fact that

The Kawai CA78 came almost two years ago and is around €2800.

The Roland HP704 came 3 months ago and is around €1900.

Why such a big price difference ?

Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys
Randompianist2 #2871902 07/23/19 01:47 PM
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Kawai claims that the mushy-spongy feeling provides a soothing experience for those who come home from a long day of hard labor and wish to have their hands massaged whilst they play the piano.
A happy ending to a hard day of work and tension is okay, but I’d rather have a masseuse provide this service rather than a piano. When I sit at the piano I’m not expecting ‘a soothing experience’, Kawai!


P.S.

Kawai did not respond to my follow-up messages.

Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys
Randompianist2 #2871905 07/23/19 01:53 PM
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I also saw that on the HP704, you can regule the keys from 0 to 100 (for the weight feeling)

While Kawai only have Heavy + / Heavy / Normal / Light / Light + on his tactile screen..


Is Kawai a bit overrated or maybe I’m wrong because I don’t see many people in my case

Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys
Randompianist2 #2871911 07/23/19 02:13 PM
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Well, I would visit more than one store incase the demo instrument is just overused.
Also, consider the instrument in the round, not by asking about the action.

You have to play the instrument, you are the best judge as to which instrument overall suits you. Measure twice and cut once---ie, make sure you've tried lots of instruments to get an overall picture of what's out there.

Also, don't forget to try real pianos too. It helps to experience an acoustic to alleviate your own action bias (the bias that arises due to playing exclusively one instrument).


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
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Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys
Randompianist2 #2871912 07/23/19 02:14 PM
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Kawai is all wooden keys, a six speaker system, more wattage, a touch screen etc.

The Kawai CA78 should be compared to the Roland LX705 I would think.
The Kawai CA58 and the Roland HP704 are more close competitors.


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys
Randompianist2 #2871913 07/23/19 02:16 PM
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Also really play the Roland pianos for the sound. Some people just don't like the modeled sound and prefer sampled sounds like Kawai and Yamaha use. No right or wrong here it is the one you the buyer have to decide on as you are the one who has to live with it.


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys
Randompianist2 #2871915 07/23/19 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Randompianist2
Also I’m considering the fact that

The Kawai CA78 came almost two years ago and is around €2800.

The Roland HP704 came 3 months ago and is around €1900.

Why such a big price difference ?


Kawai and Yamaha save their best actions for their most expensive pianos. Roland start using the PHA0-50 in their upper mid-price pianos.

For me, the responsiveness of the Roland is where it shines. It feels alive under the fingers. This, for me at least, is the most important aspect of an action. I don't have any problem going from my Roland to a grand.

Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys
Randompianist2 #2871916 07/23/19 02:21 PM
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The Roland PHA50 is imo better. Why? Because KAWAI has a soft bottoming, which I dislike. While KAWAI has proper key length, it's also possessing more travel. That did annoy me at first, but you just need to use more force than usual. But it the Kawai doesn't feel lighter. It's just around the same felt weighting.
Imo Pianos should give a hard, pronounced feedback, when you hit the (string). But for digitals, at least on the Roland, that's a drawback for some, because it has some key noise, but it doesn't bother me.
KAWAI on the other hand has a very silent keybed.

Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys
Doug M. #2871925 07/23/19 02:48 PM
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Because if it’s overused it is softer ?

Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys
Doug M. #2871926 07/23/19 02:49 PM
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Because if it’s overused it is softer ?

Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys
Randompianist2 #2871935 07/23/19 03:03 PM
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PHA50 feels better than GF2 to me. As already mentioned the GF2 has unrealistic soft-bottoming.


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Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys
Randompianist2 #2871958 07/23/19 03:38 PM
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GF Compact seems very nice. . . .bit of a trade off, but if you have short hairy fingers . . .


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Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys
peterws #2871974 07/23/19 04:30 PM
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I have long and thin fingers
But it’s just like
While playing the Kawai it feels like a chewing gum effect I mean sponge effect.
So the piano might have a beautiful name I don’t feel it’s closer to a grand piano compared to the PHA 50 keys actually ....

Last edited by Randompianist2; 07/23/19 04:31 PM.
Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys
Randompianist2 #2871976 07/23/19 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Randompianist2
I have long and thin fingers
But it’s just like
While playing the Kawai it feels like a chewing gum effect I mean sponge effect.
So the piano might have a beautiful name I don’t feel it’s closer to a grand piano compared to the PHA 50 keys actually ....


Well then you know which one to get smile


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys
EPW #2871987 07/23/19 04:52 PM
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Yeah I just wanted to hear ppl opinions to understand why they feel better the Kawai maybe

Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys
Randompianist2 #2872012 07/23/19 06:03 PM
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From what I can tell the Roland keys/action may be a bit more reliable than the Kawai action as well (I've seen less comments from PHA-50 owners about maintenance issues than the upper end Kawai actions although that may just be because Kawai sells more units so there are more existing customers to complain).

Stuff like build materials/quality, speaker and sound quality, instrument sounds, etc. all vary between each product so it's hard to make a comment on that end.

Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys
Randompianist2 #2872036 07/23/19 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Randompianist2
The Kawai CA78 came almost two years ago and is around €2800.

The Roland HP704 came 3 months ago and is around €1900.

Why such a big price difference ?


The HP704 is closer (in terms of specifications) to the Kawai CA58.

Regarding which action is "better", I know which one I prefer (both in terms of my personal preference, and knowing how these mechanisms are designed and produced), however my opinion is largely irrelevant.

The only opinion that matters is your own. If you prefer playing the Roland over the Kawai, buy the Roland.

Kind regards,
James
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Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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