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Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys #2871891
07/23/19 01:17 PM
07/23/19 01:17 PM
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Randompianist2 Offline OP
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Hello,


Which one do you guys think it’s the closer keyboard to a Grand Piano ?

I feel the Kawai Grand Feel II touch a bit soft / spongy feeling

Thanks for your reviews. Currently hesitating between CA78 and HP704.

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Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys [Re: Randompianist2] #2871895
07/23/19 01:32 PM
07/23/19 01:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 778
South Wales
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Colin Miles Offline
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Originally Posted by Randompianist2
Hello,


Which one do you guys think it’s the closer keyboard to a Grand Piano ?

I feel the Kawai Grand Feel II touch a bit soft / spongy feeling

Thanks for your reviews. Currently hesitating between CA78 and HP704.

There is no one grand piano touch. Both of these pianos are fine so go with what suits you best.


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys [Re: Randompianist2] #2871896
07/23/19 01:33 PM
07/23/19 01:33 PM
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Greater Chicago Metro Area
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EPW Offline
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Really close in action IMHO. Choose which one you like best. Roland folded action and Kawai pivot action.
I liked Kawai action better before the PHA-50 came out. Now I really do believe they are so close pick the one you like best.


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys [Re: Randompianist2] #2871898
07/23/19 01:41 PM
07/23/19 01:41 PM
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Randompianist2 Offline OP
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Also I’m considering the fact that

The Kawai CA78 came almost two years ago and is around €2800.

The Roland HP704 came 3 months ago and is around €1900.

Why such a big price difference ?

Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys [Re: Randompianist2] #2871902
07/23/19 01:47 PM
07/23/19 01:47 PM
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Pete14 Offline
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Kawai claims that the mushy-spongy feeling provides a soothing experience for those who come home from a long day of hard labor and wish to have their hands massaged whilst they play the piano.
A happy ending to a hard day of work and tension is okay, but I’d rather have a masseuse provide this service rather than a piano. When I sit at the piano I’m not expecting ‘a soothing experience’, Kawai!


P.S.

Kawai did not respond to my follow-up messages.

Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys [Re: Randompianist2] #2871905
07/23/19 01:53 PM
07/23/19 01:53 PM
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Randompianist2 Offline OP
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I also saw that on the HP704, you can regule the keys from 0 to 100 (for the weight feeling)

While Kawai only have Heavy + / Heavy / Normal / Light / Light + on his tactile screen..


Is Kawai a bit overrated or maybe I’m wrong because I don’t see many people in my case

Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys [Re: Randompianist2] #2871911
07/23/19 02:13 PM
07/23/19 02:13 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
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Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
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Well, I would visit more than one store incase the demo instrument is just overused.
Also, consider the instrument in the round, not by asking about the action.

You have to play the instrument, you are the best judge as to which instrument overall suits you. Measure twice and cut once---ie, make sure you've tried lots of instruments to get an overall picture of what's out there.

Also, don't forget to try real pianos too. It helps to experience an acoustic to alleviate your own action bias (the bias that arises due to playing exclusively one instrument).


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys [Re: Randompianist2] #2871912
07/23/19 02:14 PM
07/23/19 02:14 PM
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Greater Chicago Metro Area
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EPW Offline
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Kawai is all wooden keys, a six speaker system, more wattage, a touch screen etc.

The Kawai CA78 should be compared to the Roland LX705 I would think.
The Kawai CA58 and the Roland HP704 are more close competitors.


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys [Re: Randompianist2] #2871913
07/23/19 02:16 PM
07/23/19 02:16 PM
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EPW Offline
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Also really play the Roland pianos for the sound. Some people just don't like the modeled sound and prefer sampled sounds like Kawai and Yamaha use. No right or wrong here it is the one you the buyer have to decide on as you are the one who has to live with it.


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys [Re: Randompianist2] #2871915
07/23/19 02:21 PM
07/23/19 02:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,001
Dublin
johnstaf Offline
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Originally Posted by Randompianist2
Also I’m considering the fact that

The Kawai CA78 came almost two years ago and is around €2800.

The Roland HP704 came 3 months ago and is around €1900.

Why such a big price difference ?


Kawai and Yamaha save their best actions for their most expensive pianos. Roland start using the PHA0-50 in their upper mid-price pianos.

For me, the responsiveness of the Roland is where it shines. It feels alive under the fingers. This, for me at least, is the most important aspect of an action. I don't have any problem going from my Roland to a grand.

Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys [Re: Randompianist2] #2871916
07/23/19 02:21 PM
07/23/19 02:21 PM
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The Roland PHA50 is imo better. Why? Because KAWAI has a soft bottoming, which I dislike. While KAWAI has proper key length, it's also possessing more travel. That did annoy me at first, but you just need to use more force than usual. But it the Kawai doesn't feel lighter. It's just around the same felt weighting.
Imo Pianos should give a hard, pronounced feedback, when you hit the (string). But for digitals, at least on the Roland, that's a drawback for some, because it has some key noise, but it doesn't bother me.
KAWAI on the other hand has a very silent keybed.

Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys [Re: Doug M.] #2871925
07/23/19 02:48 PM
07/23/19 02:48 PM
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Randompianist2 Offline OP
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Because if it’s overused it is softer ?

Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys [Re: Doug M.] #2871926
07/23/19 02:49 PM
07/23/19 02:49 PM
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Randompianist2 Offline OP
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Because if it’s overused it is softer ?

Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys [Re: Randompianist2] #2871935
07/23/19 03:03 PM
07/23/19 03:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
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Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content
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PHA50 feels better than GF2 to me. As already mentioned the GF2 has unrealistic soft-bottoming.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys [Re: Randompianist2] #2871958
07/23/19 03:38 PM
07/23/19 03:38 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
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peterws Offline
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GF Compact seems very nice. . . .bit of a trade off, but if you have short hairy fingers . . .


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys [Re: peterws] #2871974
07/23/19 04:30 PM
07/23/19 04:30 PM
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Randompianist2 Offline OP
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I have long and thin fingers
But it’s just like
While playing the Kawai it feels like a chewing gum effect I mean sponge effect.
So the piano might have a beautiful name I don’t feel it’s closer to a grand piano compared to the PHA 50 keys actually ....

Last edited by Randompianist2; 07/23/19 04:31 PM.
Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys [Re: Randompianist2] #2871976
07/23/19 04:35 PM
07/23/19 04:35 PM
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Greater Chicago Metro Area
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EPW Offline
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Originally Posted by Randompianist2
I have long and thin fingers
But it’s just like
While playing the Kawai it feels like a chewing gum effect I mean sponge effect.
So the piano might have a beautiful name I don’t feel it’s closer to a grand piano compared to the PHA 50 keys actually ....


Well then you know which one to get smile


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys [Re: EPW] #2871987
07/23/19 04:52 PM
07/23/19 04:52 PM
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Randompianist2 Offline OP
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Yeah I just wanted to hear ppl opinions to understand why they feel better the Kawai maybe

Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys [Re: Randompianist2] #2872012
07/23/19 06:03 PM
07/23/19 06:03 PM
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Maconi Offline
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From what I can tell the Roland keys/action may be a bit more reliable than the Kawai action as well (I've seen less comments from PHA-50 owners about maintenance issues than the upper end Kawai actions although that may just be because Kawai sells more units so there are more existing customers to complain).

Stuff like build materials/quality, speaker and sound quality, instrument sounds, etc. all vary between each product so it's hard to make a comment on that end.

Re: Most realistic : PHA-50 vs GFII Keys [Re: Randompianist2] #2872036
07/23/19 07:57 PM
07/23/19 07:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,392
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Online content
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Originally Posted by Randompianist2
The Kawai CA78 came almost two years ago and is around €2800.

The Roland HP704 came 3 months ago and is around €1900.

Why such a big price difference ?


The HP704 is closer (in terms of specifications) to the Kawai CA58.

Regarding which action is "better", I know which one I prefer (both in terms of my personal preference, and knowing how these mechanisms are designed and produced), however my opinion is largely irrelevant.

The only opinion that matters is your own. If you prefer playing the Roland over the Kawai, buy the Roland.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
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