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Backside Vertical 8-part System #2871618
07/22/19 08:16 PM
07/22/19 08:16 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 187
Minto, NB Canada
Duaner Offline OP
Full Member
Duaner  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 187
Minto, NB Canada
I tuned a new Essex piano recently which is in the Steinway family only it's a vertical. Beautiful piano trouble is the owner wants to put a DC in it. So I ordered the "regular" DC (not knowing any better) and get it only to find out that the regular will not fit in these "Steinway" vertical family pianos. The bottom cavity is to crowded due to larger posts behind the soundboard. Bummer.....

Does anyone know anything about this "Backside Vertical 8-Part System" Damp Chasers to give me some ideas on installation or anything for that matter?


Duane Graves
www.pianotuningfredericton.com

"Pushin 70...still haven fun I think..."
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Re: Backside Vertical 8-part System [Re: Duaner] #2871654
07/22/19 11:02 PM
07/22/19 11:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,388
New Hampshire
P
P W Grey Offline
2000 Post Club Member
P W Grey  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,388
New Hampshire
Its kind of a pain, but it does work really well. Just read tbe directions. Its all there.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Backside Vertical 8-part System [Re: Duaner] #2871680
07/23/19 01:22 AM
07/23/19 01:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,747
PA
daniokeeper Offline
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daniokeeper  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,747
PA
If you go to pianolifesaver.com , you can take their online Certified Installer Course and learn how to install the various DC kits the official approved way. You will also receive the credential of Certified Installer.


Joe Gumbosky
Piano Tuning & Repair
www.morethanpianos.com
(semi-retired)

"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -Marcus Aurelius
Re: Backside Vertical 8-part System [Re: daniokeeper] #2871742
07/23/19 06:49 AM
07/23/19 06:49 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 187
Minto, NB Canada
Duaner Offline OP
Full Member
Duaner  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 187
Minto, NB Canada
Originally Posted by daniokeeper
If you go to pianolifesaver.com , you can take their online Certified Installer Course and learn how to install the various DC kits the official approved way. You will also receive the credential of Certified Installer.


I've done all that with Life Saver and even recently reconnected with them but there is nothing there that I have found to explain this 8-Part System adequately. Kind of a mystery install in ways as it is not real popular I guess....will check further with them although I was hoping for some first-hand advice here.....


Duane Graves
www.pianotuningfredericton.com

"Pushin 70...still haven fun I think..."
Re: Backside Vertical 8-part System [Re: Duaner] #2871777
07/23/19 08:20 AM
07/23/19 08:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,007
Bradford County, PA
UnrightTooner Offline
6000 Post Club Member
UnrightTooner  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,007
Bradford County, PA
I installed on a number of years ago. Here is what I remember.

Humidification: There are two water tanks with two humidifying bars. The bottoms of the tanks are connected to each other with a tube. The filling tube only goes to one tank and the connecting tube equalizes the water levels. The water level sensor only goes to one tank, and I think only one humidification bar has a pad sensor.

Dehumidification: There are four dehumidifying bars that you put where you can at an angle between the vertical posts.

Humistat: I think it goes in one of the bays with a dehumidifier, but am not very sure.

Connections: I remember both "octopus" two-prong connections and also inline "stabbing-knife" connections to get the two humidification and the four dehumidification bars connected in parallel.

Backcover: Lots of velcro and huge thumbtacks. The fabric is really stretchy, but don't over do it.

Time: Give yourself twice as much time as you think and charge accordingly. It's a pain...

More Advice: Call Dampchaser!


Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?
Re: Backside Vertical 8-part System [Re: Duaner] #2871796
07/23/19 09:15 AM
07/23/19 09:15 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,388
New Hampshire
P
P W Grey Offline
2000 Post Club Member
P W Grey  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,388
New Hampshire
I believe the humidistat goes inside the piano behind the bottom board so its controlling from the performance side. Directions are available from DC.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Backside Vertical 8-part System [Re: Duaner] #2872071
07/23/19 09:49 PM
07/23/19 09:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 187
Minto, NB Canada
Duaner Offline OP
Full Member
Duaner  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 187
Minto, NB Canada
Just to say, thank you, but the installation went fine. I didn't have to use the Backside 8-System after-all. The rhetoric clearly stated that the standard DC would not fit in the Steinway family of upright pianos (Essex being one) but when I got there thinking this install would not happen low and behold there was ample room for the install. So I went ahead and did it much to my own delight. I guess the moral of the story is not to believe everything you read in some cases anyway.


Duane Graves
www.pianotuningfredericton.com

"Pushin 70...still haven fun I think..."
Re: Backside Vertical 8-part System [Re: Duaner] #2873214
07/27/19 01:00 PM
07/27/19 01:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,388
New Hampshire
P
P W Grey Offline
2000 Post Club Member
P W Grey  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,388
New Hampshire
FWIW, Steinway does not officially endorse or even approve of DC systems in their pianos. So that's an interesting tidbit of information..."tell 'em it can't be done cuz it won't fit and they won't even try". How smart is that?

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Backside Vertical 8-part System [Re: P W Grey] #2873612
07/28/19 10:00 PM
07/28/19 10:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 187
Minto, NB Canada
Duaner Offline OP
Full Member
Duaner  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 187
Minto, NB Canada
Originally Posted by P W Grey
FWIW, Steinway does not officially endorse or even approve of DC systems in their pianos. So that's an interesting tidbit of information..."tell 'em it can't be done cuz it won't fit and they won't even try". How smart is that?

Pwg


So, I'm wondering why they (Steinway) doesn't approve of DC's in their pianos? .....and you would think that DC would check to see if this was a fact (that their system didn't fit) before publishing it as indeed a fact. I don't get it but I know this I almost didn't go to the Essex with the DC as it was a 30 minute drive and I was believing this to be true. Glad I went prepared to install it anyway.....


Duane Graves
www.pianotuningfredericton.com

"Pushin 70...still haven fun I think..."
Re: Backside Vertical 8-part System [Re: Duaner] #2873618
07/28/19 10:12 PM
07/28/19 10:12 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,043
Michigan
K
kpembrook Online content
Platinum Subscriber
kpembrook  Online Content
Platinum Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
K

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,043
Michigan
Originally Posted by Duaner
Originally Posted by P W Grey
FWIW, Steinway does not officially endorse or even approve of DC systems in their pianos. So that's an interesting tidbit of information..."tell 'em it can't be done cuz it won't fit and they won't even try". How smart is that?

Pwg


So, I'm wondering why they (Steinway) doesn't approve of DC's in their pianos? .....and you would think that DC would check to see if this was a fact (that their system didn't fit) before publishing it as indeed a fact. I don't get it but I know this I almost didn't go to the Essex with the DC as it was a 30 minute drive and I was believing this to be true. Glad I went prepared to install it anyway.....



That's a good question. They say they prefer whole room humidity solutions -- which either are a physical impossibility or are prohibitive in certain parts of the country. They also say that maintaining a moderate humidity is important. Let's be clear, while they don't endorse DC, they don't specifically prohibit it, either. And...
Steinway has said different things at different times. IIRC, at one time they were an endorser of the DC system -- which has been improved significantly since then.

But the basic reality is that Steinway has no special version of the laws of physics that applies only to their pianos. The parts of pianos that are sensitive to humidity fluctuation are made out of wood and felt. Wood grows on trees and felt grows on sheep. There are no "Steinway" trees or "Steinway" sheep. What works on one piece of wood will work on another.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
editor emeritus of Piano Technicians Journal
Re: Backside Vertical 8-part System [Re: Duaner] #2873628
07/28/19 10:44 PM
07/28/19 10:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,388
New Hampshire
P
P W Grey Offline
2000 Post Club Member
P W Grey  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,388
New Hampshire
Keith,

Yes, there was a time when the SS mildly sanctioned the use of a DC system. Then they revoked it. I believe that it was a decision made on advice from lawyer(s). Also, related to that, they may have felt that DC was trying to capitalize on the SS name...therefore nix.

They take the "safe" route of ambient room control on the basis that it is "the best" (true enough), but also knowing full well that it is difficult to impossible in some geographical areas. But since the onus is put on the owner of the piano, and if the owner doesn't do it, and there is a warranty problem, well then...they can say that the owner did not fulfill their responsibility in the matter...therefore the warranty is void.

How smart is that?

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Backside Vertical 8-part System [Re: P W Grey] #2873644
07/29/19 12:41 AM
07/29/19 12:41 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,043
Michigan
K
kpembrook Online content
Platinum Subscriber
kpembrook  Online Content
Platinum Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
K

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,043
Michigan
Originally Posted by P W Grey
Keith,

Yes, there was a time when the SS mildly sanctioned the use of a DC system. Then they revoked it. I believe that it was a decision made on advice from lawyer(s). Also, related to that, they may have felt that DC was trying to capitalize on the SS name...therefore nix.

They take the "safe" route of ambient room control on the basis that it is "the best" (true enough), but also knowing full well that it is difficult to impossible in some geographical areas. But since the onus is put on the owner of the piano, and if the owner doesn't do it, and there is a warranty problem, well then...they can say that the owner did not fulfill their responsibility in the matter...therefore the warranty is void.

How smart is that?

Pwg


Yup. Great for everybody except the customer and the piano.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
editor emeritus of Piano Technicians Journal

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