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Recommendations for me a digital audio mixer? #2871204
07/21/19 03:05 PM
07/21/19 03:05 PM
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Tyrone Slothrop Online content OP
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Anyone have any recommendations on a fully digital audio mixer with 4 channels and at least 2 XLR mic inputs with 48V phantom power?

I have been looking at the Behringer X Air X18, below, but am wondering about alternatives. I have been having problems with defective Behringer analog mixers. (I have 4 of their analog audio mixers and all eventually developed problems, including with overheating.)

[Linked Image]


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Re: Recommendations for me a digital audio mixer? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2871208
07/21/19 03:14 PM
07/21/19 03:14 PM
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Why fully digital mixer ? You could get a good analog mixer for less.



"The piano keys are black and white but they sound like a million colors in your mind.”
– Maria Cristina

Re: Recommendations for me a digital audio mixer? [Re: Serge88] #2871211
07/21/19 03:22 PM
07/21/19 03:22 PM
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Tyrone Slothrop Online content OP
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Originally Posted by Serge88
Why fully digital mixer ? You could get a good analog mixer for less.


I've chewed up and spit out 4 analog mixers already since Feb 2018. Blame it either on bad luck or me being bad with my toys, but I'm done with analog mixers. mad


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Recommendations for me a digital audio mixer? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2871217
07/21/19 03:30 PM
07/21/19 03:30 PM
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Ok, I understand.



"The piano keys are black and white but they sound like a million colors in your mind.”
– Maria Cristina

Re: Recommendations for me a digital audio mixer? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2871227
07/21/19 04:04 PM
07/21/19 04:04 PM
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Behringer digital mixers are totally different than analog devices. I had problem with Behringer analog mixers, too. Digital is at another, higher level. Also, as probably you know, Behringer changed management some years ago (they are together with Midas and maybe other companies) and we all saw that in short. I have experience with X32 and I can say it is a very great device, so in my opinion go ahead with X-Air 18.

Last edited by Pianofortissimo; 07/21/19 04:06 PM.
Re: Recommendations for me a digital audio mixer? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2871257
07/21/19 05:27 PM
07/21/19 05:27 PM
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I don't know how one chews and spits analog mixers.
As for problems ... I've never had any. Just stick to name brands.
Note also that analog mixers are free of digital artifacts.

As for Behringer ...
On all the audio boards the answer is a big NO.
There are the low-end forums where people say yes to Behringer. But these people are on a budget ... perhaps a tight budget. And those folks are Behringer's target market.
But, Tyrone, the low end is most definitely not your market space. So I would just say no to Behringer.

Re: Recommendations for me a digital audio mixer? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2871262
07/21/19 05:39 PM
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Mac, I totally agree with you speaking of analog Behringer devices. But I assure you digital is another planet, particularly from the moment they changed management and their company organisation. I assure you that X32 (and all newer models) has nothing to see with devices built 10 or more years ago. Totally different, believe me, I just used both series.

Re: Recommendations for me a digital audio mixer? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2871266
07/21/19 05:58 PM
07/21/19 05:58 PM
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There's this one ... and you'll have extra inputs "just in case" ...

[Linked Image]

Allen & Heath QU-32

Re: Recommendations for me a digital audio mixer? [Re: MacMacMac] #2871269
07/21/19 06:02 PM
07/21/19 06:02 PM
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Morodiene Offline
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
There's this one ... and you'll have extra inputs "just in case" ...

[Linked Image]

Allen & Heath QU-32

LOL that's huge. And quite a bit of price difference from the Behringer digital! Allen & Heath is a good name, but you do pay for it.

I don't have any recommendations, but I'm also interested in what's in the sub-$500 price range for digital mixers.


private piano/voice teacher FT

[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
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Re: Recommendations for me a digital audio mixer? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2871321
07/21/19 11:03 PM
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Sweelinck Online content
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Were your reliability problems with 4 mixers because the mixers were analog or because they were made by Behringer?

Whether or not an analog or digital mixer is best has to do with your functional requirements, not reliability requirements. What do you want the mixer to accomplish?


Login name is a tribute to Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck, arguably the historically first great keyboard virtuoso.
Re: Recommendations for me a digital audio mixer? [Re: Sweelinck] #2871324
07/21/19 11:17 PM
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I'm guessing that the main requirement is that it must be expensive. smile That's why I suggested the Allen & Heath QU-32 ... for $3000.
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Were your reliability problems with 4 mixers because the mixers were analog or because they were made by Behringer?
Whether or not an analog or digital mixer is best has to do with your functional requirements, not reliability requirements. What do you want the mixer to accomplish?

Re: Recommendations for me a digital audio mixer? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2871331
07/21/19 11:58 PM
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I know you asked for digital mixers, but I have been using a Yamaha MG10XU for a few years now and I’m happy with it.

Re: Recommendations for me a digital audio mixer? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2871338
07/22/19 12:41 AM
07/22/19 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Anyone have any recommendations on a fully digital audio mixer with 4 channels and at least 2 XLR mic inputs with 48V phantom power?

I have been looking at the Behringer X Air X18, below, but am wondering about alternatives. I have been having problems with defective Behringer analog mixers. (I have 4 of their analog audio mixers and all eventually developed problems, including with overheating.)


What is your budget and what features are you looking for?

I'd rather stay away from Behringer.

Zoom L-12:
https://www.zoom-na.com/products/production-recording/live-sound-recording/zoom-livetrak-l-12
It goes on sale for about 50-100 less than the retail price.

and Presonus StudioLive AR series.

But with 500 you can't really get a decent digital mixer.

There are many more, but all of them are around 600-700ish but these are pretty basic digital mixers. You should specify your budget and the say what features you're looking for and where/how you want to use it. Around 1000, you can get a relatively acceptable digital miexer.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: Recommendations for me a digital audio mixer? [Re: Abdol] #2871356
07/22/19 02:33 AM
07/22/19 02:33 AM
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Tyrone Slothrop Online content OP
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Originally Posted by Abdol
But with 500 you can't really get a decent digital mixer.

There are many more, but all of them are around 600-700ish but these are pretty basic digital mixers. You should specify your budget and the say what features you're looking for and where/how you want to use it. Around 1000, you can get a relatively acceptable digital miexer.

Under $500 would be awesome if it worked and was reliable. (My personal experience has been that Behringer analog mixers are fails from a reliability perspective. As far as I can tell, all 4 failures of my 4 Behringer mixers have been reliability related - I tend to leave the mixers on and never turn them off.) Under $1000 would be acceptable but already sounds excessive. Around $1000 would be the minimally acceptable price as I think sounds unnecessary for mixing only 4 channels.

As mentioned, more than 4 channels is useless for me but I'm willing to live with these if they are the only options. Behringer X18 obviously has 18 channels and if it is the best option for me at my price point(s), it would be ok. For example, if there was some feeling I get from the feedback on this thread that I could leave a Behringer X18 turned on for months at a time without it eventually breaking down like my Behringer analog mixers all have done, then I would just get this since it is even sub-$500.

Only features I am looking for are 4 channels, 2 of which are XLR w/ 48V phantom power. Fully digital. Minimum of moving parts. Super reliable and can be left turned on for months and not break down. 100% standard mixer features (independent volume controls, balance, etc.). Either USB or optical output. Beyond this, additional features are just not very interesting, but I would accept a product with more features although I would just not use those.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Recommendations for me a digital audio mixer? [Re: Sweelinck] #2871358
07/22/19 02:45 AM
07/22/19 02:45 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 6,154
Tyrone Slothrop Online content OP
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Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Were your reliability problems with 4 mixers because the mixers were analog or because they were made by Behringer?

My 4 analog mixers were all left on for weeks or months at a time and eventually stopped working (channel drop outs, etc). I'm a strong believer in always-on operation since I like to walk over at any moment and just find my stuff working without turning things on, waiting for warm up, etc. I assume the failures have been largely related to analog electronic parts overheating and having their electrical characteristics changing. When this cr@p happens, I don't investigate further. I just consign to the rubbish.

Have no idea if this is a Behringer issue or an analog issue, but I am just suspecting it is analog issue since I can't believe 4 of 4 from one manufacturer could all have a manufacturing defect. (Possible, but it stretches my incredulity.)

Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Whether or not an analog or digital mixer is best has to do with your functional requirements, not reliability requirements. What do you want the mixer to accomplish?

Only features I am looking for are 4 channels, 2 of which are XLR w/ 48V phantom power. Fully digital. Minimum of moving parts. Super reliable and can be left turned on for months and not break down. 100% standard mixer features (independent volume controls, balance, etc.). Either USB or optical output. Beyond this, additional features are just not very interesting, but I would accept a product with more features although I would just not use those.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Recommendations for me a digital audio mixer? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2871386
07/22/19 06:31 AM
07/22/19 06:31 AM
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Given that nearly all electronic equipment in history has been totally analog, and that even in the digital world the reproduction is done with analog signals ... this surely cannot be true:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Have no idea if this is a Behringer issue or an analog issue, but I am just suspecting it is analog issue since I can't believe 4 of 4 from one manufacturer could all have a manufacturing defect.
The Behringer experience is so frequently bad that this brand is shunned on the audio boards. They might turn up their noses given that you've had "only" four failed Behringer devices! smile

I can understand the "always on" mantra. And if an always-on heat issue was the underlying cause of failure, it speaks once again to product quality. Maybe those were CCC failures?

Also, revisit Sweeklinck's comment:
Originally Posted by Sweelinck
Whether or not an analog or digital mixer is best has to do with your functional requirements, not reliability requirements. What do you want the mixer to accomplish?

Re: Recommendations for me a digital audio mixer? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2871441
07/22/19 10:14 AM
07/22/19 10:14 AM
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Behringer's digital mixers are quite reliable. They had a bad reputation, but the quality of their products have increased significantly in the 5 years or so. Yes, they once produced a whole bunch of crap that much of their stuff was cloned directly from other manufacturers. Once you get a bad rep its hard to shake. Because people, pass that over boards all over the internet. And nearly every single one of them doesn't own the product they are dissing. I own two digital mixers an XR18 and a Soundcraft ui12. The Behringer is a much better mixer. That XR18 is highly rated. If you look at Sweetwater for example, there 248 reviews of the XR18. The rating 4.5 out of 5 stars these aren't bots , 248 people decided it was worth their time to comment on it. Sound on Sound and other publications rate them very positvely. The only issue these have and every single other digital mixer I have tested is wireless routing. If your in a venue with lots of wireless signals, when the house gets crowded the using an iPad or other wireless to connect is really hit or miss. The Soundcraft has the same issue, actually worse. Both companies suggest using a wireless router instead. I use mine constantly, I take it to gigs and every place I've used it I save the settings. This makes sound checks so much simpler when returning. The effects are very good, crystal clear. And I can record all 18 tracks to my DAW during the performance. Making blanket statements about the manufacturer and ALL their products is disingenuous. I have had bad products from nearly every single major manufacturer over the years. But right now I have 2 Behringer products, the XR-18 and a Deep Mind 12 and I like both of them a lot.

Last edited by Kbeaumont; 07/22/19 10:22 AM.

A long long time ago, I can still remember
How that music used to make me smile....
Re: Recommendations for me a digital audio mixer? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2871445
07/22/19 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Abdol
But with 500 you can't really get a decent digital mixer.

There are many more, but all of them are around 600-700ish but these are pretty basic digital mixers. You should specify your budget and the say what features you're looking for and where/how you want to use it. Around 1000, you can get a relatively acceptable digital miexer.

Under $500 would be awesome if it worked and was reliable. (My personal experience has been that Behringer analog mixers are fails from a reliability perspective. As far as I can tell, all 4 failures of my 4 Behringer mixers have been reliability related - I tend to leave the mixers on and never turn them off.) Under $1000 would be acceptable but already sounds excessive. Around $1000 would be the minimally acceptable price as I think sounds unnecessary for mixing only 4 channels.

As mentioned, more than 4 channels is useless for me but I'm willing to live with these if they are the only options. Behringer X18 obviously has 18 channels and if it is the best option for me at my price point(s), it would be ok. For example, if there was some feeling I get from the feedback on this thread that I could leave a Behringer X18 turned on for months at a time without it eventually breaking down like my Behringer analog mixers all have done, then I would just get this since it is even sub-$500.

Only features I am looking for are 4 channels, 2 of which are XLR w/ 48V phantom power. Fully digital. Minimum of moving parts. Super reliable and can be left turned on for months and not break down. 100% standard mixer features (independent volume controls, balance, etc.). Either USB or optical output. Beyond this, additional features are just not very interesting, but I would accept a product with more features although I would just not use those.


But you didn't say what features you're looking for. I would not make conservative decisions when it comes to the number of inputs. You can use fewer but once you need more you can't add them!

When I go after a digital mixer, I look for a few things (for a live performance). Digital mixers are more compact and can do things that require a big rack of hardware to them (if possible). Multichannel USB audio in/out to PC, more than one AUX send line, multiple effects, compressor, presets, master effects etc. usually exist only in high-end digital mixers.

With your budget Zoom L-12 is a good entry-level mixer which does almost everything you need. It basically a Yamaha mixer. It has 8 mono inputs (which is 4 stereo). You might be able to use the 5 headphone monitor outputs as AUX but it is an experimental concept. It has individual compression effect on each channel which is great.

This mixer is great for a small live performance. It is 12/10 Out/In (I guess) audio interface! and you can record each instrument individually.

A good review:

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/zoom-livetrak-l12

Please note that at this price range the mixer's body is usually plastic. Did I say that Zoom L12 is also an audio interface?

By the way, you can also get an audio interface. These days most of the audio interfaces are also digital mixers but they don't have the control surface of a digital mixer but usually very capable! This is what MOTU offers in its audio interfaces:

[Linked Image]


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: Recommendations for me a digital audio mixer? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2871488
07/22/19 02:05 PM
07/22/19 02:05 PM
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Absolutely agree with the Behringer XR18.
Two years that I have it without any kind of problem and it has solved all the problems of audio and midi connections in my home studio.
At Thomann he has been number 1 in sales of digital mixers for several years and is currently number 4 in sales of any product.

XR18 at Thomann

It has Midas preamps and wonderful effects, equipped with the same FX engines as the X32 Digital Mixing Console, (4 times more expensive).

XR18 at Behringer

Re: Recommendations for me a digital audio mixer? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2871537
07/22/19 04:15 PM
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The benefits of a digital mixer are the much greater selection of effects and that you have analog-to-digital conversion built-in if what you want is digital output. There are a lot more components that have to meet your quality requirements than with an analog mixer, so if what you want is just basic summing of channels, pre-amps to provide gain for inputs that need to be brought up to line level, and analog output to monitors or amp, then you are likely to get better audio quality at a given price point with an analog mixer.

Many audio recording interfaces also support basic digital mixing, but you usually have to boot a computer to run the control app.

Among tabletop analog mixers, I generally prefer Mackie because their multibus architecture generally solves all routing problems without having to move patch cords around. With a Mackie 1202-VLZ4 I can mix multiple instrument sources, and route the output to monitors, headphone amp, or recording interface. When using the recording interface, I can simultaneously monitor the mixer output with monitors, or route the output of the recording interface to the same monitors monitors so I’m monitoring what was actually recorded while playing. No patch cord changes are required to do any of that. Certainly, other brands of analog mixers may support that, and it would be required of any digital or analog mixer I would consider. Someone I spoke with recently described Mackie mixers as the Swiss Army knife of mixers.

Reliability while running 24x7 may be nice, but is that the most important requirement of a device with a 1 second power on and warm-up time?


Login name is a tribute to Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck, arguably the historically first great keyboard virtuoso.
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