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Institutional piano #2870472
07/18/19 10:05 PM
07/18/19 10:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 151
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Hotstrings Offline OP
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I’m a beginner - 2 yrs - Kawai Digital es110 and am looking for an upright acoustic Kawai but I m
not sure of differences between an institutional and regular piano? ( just practice 4 hrs a day). Are their similar feel and action between Kawai digital and Kawai acoustic? Thanks . I’m a guitarist (62 yrs) so I’m use to only 6 strings . Any advice appreciated.

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Re: Institutional piano [Re: Hotstrings] #2870514
07/19/19 05:12 AM
07/19/19 05:12 AM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 261
Chiltern Hills, England.
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gwing Offline
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Originally Posted by Hotstrings
I’m a beginner - 2 yrs - Kawai Digital es110 and am looking for an upright acoustic Kawai but I m
not sure of differences between an institutional and regular piano? ( just practice 4 hrs a day). Are their similar feel and action between Kawai digital and Kawai acoustic? Thanks . I’m a guitarist (62 yrs) so I’m use to only 6 strings . Any advice appreciated.


Hi Hotstrings,

You will find that every acoustic piano feels different to play, even two pianos of exactly the same make and model can feel, and sound, different to play so it is best to just play lots of pianos and find the one you like. Do go and play them, don't rely on youtube recordings or someone else's preferences, we all have individual tastes and pianos are very individual things although, in general, taller larger uprights tend to sound richer than their compact cousins.

And I'd say consider all brands, the touch and feel of a Kawai upright to your es100 is no more likely to be similar than another brand would be - so cast your net wide :-)

Last edited by gwing; 07/19/19 05:14 AM.
Re: Institutional piano [Re: gwing] #2870518
07/19/19 05:20 AM
07/19/19 05:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,333
Queensland, Australia
backto_study_piano Offline
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Queensland, Australia
Agreed. There are lots of brands of pianos - and also consider near new pianos. Play lots of pianos - including those outside your price range - just to get a feel for what you like.

Particularly if you're playing for 4 hours a days - ensure that you get a suitable bench, not too low as some supplied benches are - otherwise you could damage yourself.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: Institutional piano [Re: Hotstrings] #2870520
07/19/19 05:23 AM
07/19/19 05:23 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,148
Moscow, Russia
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Iaroslav Vasiliev Online content
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Moscow, Russia
Pianos for musical institutions (schools, conservatories, etc.) are usually made more durable, because they must sustain a lot of everyday playing. As for sound and action I'd say they are in-between cheap pianos for beginners and expensive high-quality home pianos.

Re: Institutional piano [Re: Hotstrings] #2870581
07/19/19 09:23 AM
07/19/19 09:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,401
not in Japan anymore
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not in Japan anymore
Although if you're looking at used pianos, and one is labeled "institutional" you want to know if that means the piano sat in a practice room at a university or music school and took a beating day in and day out. If so, that's probably not the piano you want to buy!


Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
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Re: Institutional piano [Re: Hotstrings] #2870594
07/19/19 10:09 AM
07/19/19 10:09 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,573
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
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Originally Posted by Iaroslav Vasiliev
Pianos for musical institutions (schools, conservatories, etc.) are usually made more durable, because they must sustain a lot of everyday playing. As for sound and action I'd say they are in-between cheap pianos for beginners and expensive high-quality home pianos.

This is my thinking as well. A new, or later model (or even an older, well used) institutional model acoustic piano would be "heavier duty" or more durable, as Iaroslav Vasiliev mentioned, than a basic, entry-level acoustic piano.

Also, in terms of cabinetry or looks, you can get an institutional model (on the inside) with a more domestic, home decor outside, which would also be more durable, per-se.

As for the action, as much as I like my Casio Privia PX310 digital stage piano, and all it's advantages, the hammer-graded action (supposed to feel like an acoustic piano) is just not the same as a real piano. Not that I can play all that well to begin with, but I have better control of the keyboard when I play my acoustic pianos.

Oh yea, I used to be a guitar guy, for many years (since I was about 8 or 10 years old). But an accidental injury on my finger (index on left hand) messed up my finger tip and caused a stiff joint, prompted me more toward the piano. The injury to my finger didn't seem to affect me depressing the keys on the piano. I still play the guitar a little, along with the 5-string banjo and violin. But the piano is my favorite instrument at the moment. smile

Wow, 4 hours a day at the piano is a lot of playing! Maybe you do need an institutional model! smile

Good luck!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Institutional piano [Re: Hotstrings] #2870601
07/19/19 11:04 AM
07/19/19 11:04 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,909
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
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Georgia, USA
In addition to a certain set of features (toe blocks, bigger casters, a larger music desk, a height of roughly 45-46”), and at least a certain level of durability, also remember that institutional verticals are built to a particular price point in order to complete in competitive sales/bids. Each manufacturer that offers an institutional model makes more expensive, taller models that are more satisfying in terms of touch and tone.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Institutional piano [Re: Hotstrings] #2870973
07/20/19 04:29 PM
07/20/19 04:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 151
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Hotstrings Offline OP
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Thanks for all th good advice. Going to look for a studio or full size upright. Not institutional as my teacher tells me not to bang on his 9 ft grand so I likely need a piano not so used.

Re: Institutional piano [Re: Hotstrings] #2870981
07/20/19 04:44 PM
07/20/19 04:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,573
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
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Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by Hotstrings
Thanks for all the good advice. Going to look for a studio or full size upright. Not institutional as my teacher tells me not to bang on his 9 ft grand so I likely need a piano not so used.
Was your teacher joking or serious? smile

If he doesn't want you playing his 9' grand so hard, maybe he should buy another piano to use just for teaching and use the 9 footer for his own enjoyment.

Fact is, I've seen some classical pianist rare back and pound the keys harder than a carpenter driving a nail with a hammer.

I play my pianos hard, but I have more than one, so that I don't wear any of them out too soon. smile

Good luck!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Institutional piano [Re: Hotstrings] #2871039
07/20/19 08:27 PM
07/20/19 08:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,359
Southwest
j&j Offline
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Southwest
What it sounds like you want is a recent used quality upright that was built as an institutional model but only saw fairly gentle home use. One built to take pounding, but was never really played hard. 4 hours of practice a day does put considerable wear and tear so you do need something sturdy. Also, consider the on-going maintenance your piano will need while you own it. Your piano will need more frequent voicing and regulation being played that much.
I have to say I’m quite impressed by your commitment. Best wishes on your search.


J & J
Yamaha C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
Pianos - the reason God made trees!
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Re: Institutional piano [Re: j&j] #2871427
07/22/19 09:36 AM
07/22/19 09:36 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 151
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Hotstrings Offline OP
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Posts: 151
Thanks for your input. My teacher not joking. When I first started he had me play on a Kurtzweil
Digital and after a year moved me to grand. And yes he seems to pound pretty hard himself on the grand when he plays classical.
I think it has more to be about dynamics and approach.
For instance he seems to be particular about my fingers lifting up. Said to make believe the piano is a hot stove . I m a guitarist for 62 yrs and in guitar work it’s the opposite. We keep our fingers down unless we have to move them. Also working on my wrist relaxation and tension in general. Guitar playing plays havoc w piano technique as one is always squeezing the neck .
Piano seems to need relaxed hands.
Truth be told if I didn’t have gigs still, I would lay the guitar down. Imho it is pale next to piano. Ironically, despite only marginally practicing guitar, I cant believe how much better I am on guitar. Band noticed, everybody noticed. Have no clue how that transference works. Guitar chord theory is the only advantage I bring to the piano and that is a real plus . I love having 5 fingers on my left hand to create chords. Just a real treat next to Guitar.
I am trying to be more graceful and it’s better.

Yes I do have time to practice 3-4 hours and sometimes on Sunday song day I practice 5-6 hours. I have no delusions of grandeur at the age of 74. I do give reading a good bit of attention as he won’t teach me if I don’t read bass clef, a guitarist nemesis as we read only treble clef despite some of the low notes that are technically bass clef.
The great Johnny Smith ( rip) was the only guitarist I know that taught guitar w bass clef. With the advent of the 7 string I would suspect reading both clefs is necessary.

Re: Institutional piano [Re: Hotstrings] #2871435
07/22/19 09:57 AM
07/22/19 09:57 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,573
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
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Posts: 12,573
Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by Hotstrings
Truth be told if I didn’t have gigs still, I would lay the guitar down. Imho it is pale next to piano. Ironically, despite only marginally practicing guitar, I cant believe how much better I am on guitar. Band noticed, everybody noticed. Have no clue how that transference works. Guitar chord theory is the only advantage I bring to the piano and that is a real plus . I love having 5 fingers on my left hand to create chords. Just a real treat next to Guitar.
I am trying to be more graceful and it’s better.
I was a long-time string instrument player (of sorts) too, before I started learning to play the piano. I still play my string instruments some, but what I really like about the piano is, instead of 6-strings, like the guitar, the piano has 88 keys/notes, and 7 octaves. So, on the piano, one can play bass, rhythm, and lead all at the same time. It is almost like having a an entire 3-piece band (lead-guitar, rhythm-guitar, and bass-guitar) all at the same time.

In my opinion, one can make more music with two hands on a piano than a guitar, although I still love to hear good guitar playing, and the guitar is probably a more popular instrument.

As far as transferring some musical skill/theory from the guitar to the piano, yes, it did help me to some extent.

All the best!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Institutional piano [Re: Rickster] #2871478
07/22/19 01:21 PM
07/22/19 01:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 151
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Hotstrings Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 151
Thanks. Couldn’t agree more. Freedom is the operative word as i blessed to be able to spell
just about any chord instantly and since piano is so parallel, I have no trouble decorating before I play it.
I struggle w reading the chords on bass clef. Enjoy .

Re: Institutional piano [Re: Hotstrings] #2871479
07/22/19 01:33 PM
07/22/19 01:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,359
Southwest
j&j Offline
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Southwest
I never learned guitar. I thought about taking lessons. But then thought I should focus my attention to the instrument I already somewhat knew how to play. I do think knowing multiple instruments makes us much better and more valuable to bands and orchestras. The one thing I bring is I can read music and know some music theory. I can sing background.


J & J
Yamaha C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
Pianos - the reason God made trees!
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Re: Institutional piano [Re: j&j] #2871500
07/22/19 02:43 PM
07/22/19 02:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 151
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Hotstrings Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2017
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I had same sentiment. Didn’t learn bass - stuck w guitar till age 72 when I discovered piano and no longer feared it like when I was young ( terrified of bass clef). Wish I would have known fear stood for False Evidence Appearing Real.


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