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yamaha or pramberger, dilemma! #2870368
07/18/19 03:55 PM
07/18/19 03:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2
S
Sacha Offline OP
Junior Member
Sacha  Offline OP
Junior Member
S

Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2
Hello Piano World!
i have a dilemma, i am in the market for an upright piano and i was very close to choosing a yamaha U3 or UX3 but then i tried a Pramberger jp-131 that i was very surprised with. after spending 2 hours comparing the 2, i found i prefered the sound of the Pramberger and that it has some very high quality materials in it, Renner hammers, bolduc soundboard, german music wire, bass and tenor agraffes and more features then the yamaha. also the pramberger is a 2009 and the yamahas are mid 80’s for nearly the same price. so i know there are quite a few technical differences between the pianos, but im wondering, which one would the people of this community elect as the best? the UX3 is a bit more expensive then the other 2 of course
thank you guys in advance!

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Re: yamaha or pramberger, dilemma! [Re: Sacha] #2870371
07/18/19 04:07 PM
07/18/19 04:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 316
Maryland, USA
D
Davdoc Offline
Full Member
Davdoc  Offline
Full Member
D

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 316
Maryland, USA
Originally Posted by Sacha
Hello Piano World!
i have a dilemma, i am in the market for an upright piano and i was very close to choosing a yamaha U3 or UX3 but then i tried a Pramberger jp-131 that i was very surprised with. after spending 2 hours comparing the 2, i found i prefered the sound of the Pramberger and that it has some very high quality materials in it, Renner hammers, bolduc soundboard, german music wire, bass and tenor agraffes and more features then the yamaha. also the pramberger is a 2009 and the yamahas are mid 80’s for nearly the same price. so i know there are quite a few technical differences between the pianos, but im wondering, which one would the people of this community elect as the best? the UX3 is a bit more expensive then the other 2 of course
thank you guys in advance!


Since both are (presumably) used, the general rule of thumb is that if you like them both enough, you should have a qualified technician to inspect these pianos to make sure there is no hidden surprise (in a bad way).

Then, it is your preference about touch, tone, visual appeal etc. that matters. The community's election should not sway you, in my opinion, as preference is highly subjective and individual.

Specs only matter so much in the case of acoustic pianos; manufacturing and then preparation can affect the instrument's musical quality greatly.


1969 Hamburg Steinway B, rebuilt by PianoCraft in 2017
2013 New York Steinway A
Kawai MP11

Previously: 2005 Yamaha GB1, 1992 Yamaha C5
Re: yamaha or pramberger, dilemma! [Re: Sacha] #2870424
07/18/19 06:28 PM
07/18/19 06:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 609
Rockville, MD
Seeker Offline
500 Post Club Member
Seeker  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 609
Rockville, MD
FWIW - when I was in the market for a grand piano back in the mid-90's I played a Young-Chang 208cm with a Weber decal that I wound up buying and playing through 2 replacement sets of hammers before selling it to another person who was thrilled to get it. I liked the sound better than the Yamaha or Kawai grands in the same size, (from what I could tell it was an attempt at a copy of an older Bechsten 208cm scale with, of course, less expensive materials in certain key areas), and the price was a lot less expensive than the Yamaha or Kawai grands.

I believe that Pramberger pianos were made, at least for some period of time, by Young Chang, not sure about the year of your candidate piano.

The usual argument for the Yamaha and Kawai pianos, and it is a good one, is that they are very well made and hold up to long use. Prambergers may not hold up as well over time; I'm unaware of the verdict on them. How many hours a day, a week, are you planning on hard playing on this instrument? Whatever amount, unless you teach on it as well, it's unlikely to get institutional level use.

The Pramberger is 25 years younger than either of the Yamahas you've mentioned and is still less expensive.

I'm with @Davedoc. Get your own technician to evaluate the Pramberger (if that's the one you really like). If s/he gives it the thumbs up, I'd buy it.


Andrew Kraus, Pianist
Educated Amateur Tuner/Technician
Rockville, MD USA
www.AndrewKraus.com
www.YouTube.com/RockvillePianoGuy
Twitter at @IAmAPianist

1929 Steinert 6'10" (Close copy of New York S&S "B")
Re: yamaha or pramberger, dilemma! [Re: Sacha] #2870458
07/18/19 08:58 PM
07/18/19 08:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,619
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Offline
2000 Post Club Member
NobleHouse  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,619
In the Ozarks of Missouri
After you have your technicians ok, BUY the one YOU prefer for sound/touch..


[Linked Image]
Re: yamaha or pramberger, dilemma! [Re: Sacha] #2870474
07/18/19 10:12 PM
07/18/19 10:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,119
North Vancouver
L
Lady Bird Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Lady Bird  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,119
North Vancouver
I never knew that the Pramberger had Renner action.
Then it is also much newer., I think I would take the Pramberger rather than the 80's Yamaha.
I had an 80's Yamaha I used for years.Actually it used
to be quite good but in the last few years it had a few
problems so it was traded in for another piano.
So if you love the Pramberger sound and response then that is a good choice.

.

Re: yamaha or pramberger, dilemma! [Re: Lady Bird] #2870486
07/18/19 10:43 PM
07/18/19 10:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2
S
Sacha Offline OP
Junior Member
Sacha  Offline OP
Junior Member
S

Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 2
thanks alot for your answers! ill try to have a specialist look at them before purchasing. only problem is i dont know any in the montreal region but i guess ill figure that part out :p

Re: yamaha or pramberger, dilemma! [Re: Sacha] #2870492
07/18/19 11:52 PM
07/18/19 11:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,119
North Vancouver
L
Lady Bird Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Lady Bird  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,119
North Vancouver
I do not know but perhaps if you look up RPT.,Registered Piano Technicians you may find one.
Also ask who tunes a local church ,school or even a
university piano, perhaps you may find one or be recommended one.

Re: yamaha or pramberger, dilemma! [Re: Sacha] #2870919
07/20/19 12:59 PM
07/20/19 12:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,812
The Heart of Screenland
K
KurtZ Offline
1000 Post Club Member
KurtZ  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
K

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,812
The Heart of Screenland
Is this a Young Chang Pramberger or the Samick? The YC piano was part of the premium line made in Korea on the same line with the premium YC branded pianos. The Samick is a near stencil made in various factories in Asia and Indonesia.

I face the exact same conundrum about 6 years ago. A 2005 Korean piano or a late 80's Yamaha. I liked the sound of the Pramberger better. It was more European and it had a new piano warranty. I took the Pramberger and am still happy with it.

Kurt


**********************************************************************************************************
Co-owner (by marriage) and part time customer service rep at an electronic musical equipment repair shop.
Re: yamaha or pramberger, dilemma! [Re: NobleHouse] #2870942
07/20/19 03:14 PM
07/20/19 03:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,359
Southwest
j&j Offline
1000 Post Club Member
j&j  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,359
Southwest
Originally Posted by NobleHouse
After you have your technicians ok, BUY the one YOU prefer for sound/touch..

thumb +1 The Yamahas are great uprights but are 30 something years old and could be used hard. Your tech has to check it out. Unless there’s something wrong with the Pramberger, you’d probably have a longer lasting piano. Again, your tech can tell you.


J & J
Yamaha C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
Pianos - the reason God made trees!
[Linked Image]
Re: yamaha or pramberger, dilemma! [Re: KurtZ] #2870957
07/20/19 03:40 PM
07/20/19 03:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,119
North Vancouver
L
Lady Bird Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Lady Bird  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,119
North Vancouver
Originally Posted by KurtZ
Is this a Young Chang Pramberger or the Samick? The YC piano was part of the premium line made in Korea on the same line with the premium YC branded pianos. The Samick is a near stencil made in various factories in Asia and Indonesia.

I face the exact same conundrum about 6 years ago. A 2005 Korean piano or a late 80's Yamaha. I liked the sound of the Pramberger better. It was more European and it had a new piano warranty. I took the Pramberger and am still happy with it.

Kurt

Samick I think make Ed Seiler pianos which are designed by Seiler. So it sounds like Samick know
how to make pianos !

Re: yamaha or pramberger, dilemma! [Re: Lady Bird] #2871457
07/22/19 11:13 AM
07/22/19 11:13 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,812
The Heart of Screenland
K
KurtZ Offline
1000 Post Club Member
KurtZ  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
K

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,812
The Heart of Screenland
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by KurtZ
Is this a Young Chang Pramberger or the Samick? The YC piano was part of the premium line made in Korea on the same line with the premium YC branded pianos. The Samick is a near stencil made in various factories in Asia and Indonesia.

I face the exact same conundrum about 6 years ago. A 2005 Korean piano or a late 80's Yamaha. I liked the sound of the Pramberger better. It was more European and it had a new piano warranty. I took the Pramberger and am still happy with it.

Kurt

Samick I think make Ed Seiler pianos which are designed by Seiler. So it sounds like Samick know
how to make pianos !


Samick "makes" about four different brands of piano. I never said they were bad pianos. I pointed out that one is a contract piano built to a price in a contract factory and the other was built to be a premium piano actually designed by the person whose name it carries.

Every piano has to be evaluated on it's own terms and value. Full stop.

Kurt


**********************************************************************************************************
Co-owner (by marriage) and part time customer service rep at an electronic musical equipment repair shop.
Re: yamaha or pramberger, dilemma! [Re: Sacha] #2871458
07/22/19 11:19 AM
07/22/19 11:19 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 544
North of Los Angeles
L
Learux Offline

500 Post Club Member
Learux  Offline

500 Post Club Member
L

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 544
North of Los Angeles
Have the piano's checked by a technician. Pick the one you like best.


When you play, never mind who listens to you. R.Schumann.

Casio GP-400
Schimmel SP-182T
Re: yamaha or pramberger, dilemma! [Re: Lady Bird] #2871886
07/23/19 01:14 PM
07/23/19 01:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 13
Fountain Valley
Zed Gong Offline
Junior Member
Zed Gong  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 13
Fountain Valley
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
I never knew that the Pramberger had Renner action.
Then it is also much newer., I think I would take the Pramberger rather than the 80's Yamaha.
I had an 80's Yamaha I used for years.Actually it used
to be quite good but in the last few years it had a few
problems so it was traded in for another piano.
So if you love the Pramberger sound and response then that is a good choice.

.

I believe that Prambergers uses Renner parts, but assembled in their own factory.
If an action is made and assembled by Renner, it will have a stamp on the side of the action rack.


Sales Associate

Keyboard Concepts Fountain Valley

“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche.
Re: yamaha or pramberger, dilemma! [Re: Zed Gong] #2871931
07/23/19 02:58 PM
07/23/19 02:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 54
R
RJ's dad Offline
Full Member
RJ's dad  Offline
Full Member
R

Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 54
Originally Posted by Zed Gong
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
I never knew that the Pramberger had Renner action.
Then it is also much newer., I think I would take the Pramberger rather than the 80's Yamaha.
I had an 80's Yamaha I used for years.Actually it used
to be quite good but in the last few years it had a few
problems so it was traded in for another piano.
So if you love the Pramberger sound and response then that is a good choice.

.

I believe that Prambergers uses Renner parts, but assembled in their own factory.
If an action is made and assembled by Renner, it will have a stamp on the side of the action rack.


I have 1999 YC PG-175 Pramberger edition, and was under the impression it was a Renner action. But as said above, it says, "Young Change Action" on it, however the felts are "Royal George", not sure if those are hammer felts used by Renner however.

I will say the piano sounds great for the price we paid, and we are very happy with our purchase, as it appeared to have been rarely played and is like new, something that was important for us with a young pianist.

Having recently been a shopper the advise above is consistent with what I received here and echo the following sentiments:

If you like the sound and feel, have it checked by a reputable Tech. Research ebay, or google the model for pricing and try to pay on the lower end if privately sold. If you purchase from a dealer research them as well as a warranty and trade up options will add to the price but may be worth it for peace of mind.

Good luck!

Re: yamaha or pramberger, dilemma! [Re: Sacha] #2871941
07/23/19 03:10 PM
07/23/19 03:10 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,356
Phoenix, Arizona
Carey Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Carey  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,356
Phoenix, Arizona
The Prambergers didn't use Renner parts in the late 1990s - but introduced them sometime in the early 2000s. I recall looking inside a new Pramberger around 2003-04 and the action had Renner stamped on it - but I don't know if that meant the action was assembled by Renner. Royal George felt was consistently used in the higher end Young Chang and Weber pianos back then.


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: yamaha or pramberger, dilemma! [Re: Carey] #2872072
07/23/19 09:52 PM
07/23/19 09:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 13
Fountain Valley
Zed Gong Offline
Junior Member
Zed Gong  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 13
Fountain Valley
Originally Posted by Carey
The Prambergers didn't use Renner parts in the late 1990s - but introduced them sometime in the early 2000s. I recall looking inside a new Pramberger around 2003-04 and the action had Renner stamped on it - but I don't know if that meant the action was assembled by Renner. Royal George felt was consistently used in the higher end Young Chang and Weber pianos back then.

Where was the stamp? Renner stamps their action racks on both the left and right hand side of the unit, vertically, on the side of the rail. I was shown this by a reputable technician who said that if the action rack was assembled by Renner, it will have that stamp on the side.

I'm curious if your Pramberger was stamped on the side.


Sales Associate

Keyboard Concepts Fountain Valley

“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche.
Re: yamaha or pramberger, dilemma! [Re: Zed Gong] #2872093
07/24/19 12:46 AM
07/24/19 12:46 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,356
Phoenix, Arizona
Carey Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Carey  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,356
Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted by Zed Gong
Originally Posted by Carey
The Prambergers didn't use Renner parts in the late 1990s - but introduced them sometime in the early 2000s. I recall looking inside a new Pramberger around 2003-04 and the action had Renner stamped on it - but I don't know if that meant the action was assembled by Renner. Royal George felt was consistently used in the higher end Young Chang and Weber pianos back then.

Where was the stamp? Renner stamps their action racks on both the left and right hand side of the unit, vertically, on the side of the rail. I was shown this by a reputable technician who said that if the action rack was assembled by Renner, it will have that stamp on the side.

I'm curious if your Pramberger was stamped on the side.
Well - it wasn't my Pramberger, only one of many on a showroom floor - and it was over 15 years ago. BUT I recall that the Renner stamp was on a horizontal part of the action - not vertical - visible when the fallboard was removed. So I'm guessing that the Renner parts were assembled by Young Chang, not Renner.


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: yamaha or pramberger, dilemma! [Re: Sacha] #2873055
07/26/19 08:17 PM
07/26/19 08:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 754
San Mateo, CA
Kurtmen Offline
500 Post Club Member
Kurtmen  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 754
San Mateo, CA
There is not a dilemma, hire an independent technician and purchase the Yamaha.


San Mateo Piano
Kawai Piano Dealer San Francisco Bay Area
www.sanmateopiano.com

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