2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Petrof Pianos
Petrof Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Who's Online Now
25 members (JasonInTN, DreamPiano80, Animisha, Greta99, joemama42O, AZNpiano, Hugo_FVF, 5 invisible), 402 guests, and 275 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Single replacement key for Steinway D?
#2870263 07/18/19 09:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 315
J
jsilva Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 315
Does anyone know a source for a single key for a Steinway D?

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Single replacement key for Steinway D?
jsilva #2870279 07/18/19 10:30 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 197
A
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 197
It's going to be a one-off custom made item. You'd need at least a couple of keys either side of the missing key to figure dimensions, and I'm not sure what one would do regarding key covering, white key or black. Are there any parts of the missing/damaged key available? A photo would be most helpful if possible!


Started work at the Blüthner piano re-building workshop in Perivale, UK, in 1989. Self employed since 2000. Learning something new about pianos every day... smile

http://www.hamiltonpianos.com/
Re: Single replacement key for Steinway D?
jsilva #2870284 07/18/19 10:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 767
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 767
I am told that Dean Reyburn took over Richard Cromwell's Detroit Piano Works and is now making custom keysets. You might want to email him about a single key. I would think that all you would have to do is send him the one keystick and say "replicate" please.

Perhaps an email to Kluge in Germany would be useful too?


Andrew Kraus, Pianist
Educated Amateur Tuner/Technician
Rockville, MD USA
www.AndrewKraus.com
www.YouTube.com/RockvillePianoGuy
Twitter at @IAmAPianist

1929 Steinert 6'10" (Close copy of New York S&S "B")
Re: Single replacement key for Steinway D?
jsilva #2870301 07/18/19 11:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 28,541
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 28,541
Kluge has not always made Steinway keysets. Keysets are not always uniform. Adjacent keys are not always enough to make a new key accurately.

This is a difficult job. If the key is broken, I would suggest repairing it, rather than trying to replace it. That is difficult, but not as hard as replacing it.


Semipro Tech
Re: Single replacement key for Steinway D?
jsilva #2870311 07/18/19 11:37 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 148
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 148
Key or key top? If key top, ivory or non-ivory?

Re: Single replacement key for Steinway D?
jsilva #2870323 07/18/19 12:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 315
J
jsilva Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 315
Thanks all smile The key itself is broken and unfortunately I made a mistake. I’m assuming that when I clamped it the pieces moved a bit under pressure and I didn’t notice. When I took off the clamp this morning I noticed it is about 1-2mm out of position. I’m kicking myself.

I think it’s entirely in the direction of front/back/length. Seems to me that that a key 1-2mm too long will be very noticeable. I suppose I could cut it and try and shave off the precise amount too long but I’d need some help with that level of precision. In any case I won’t know for sure until I take it back to the piano and put it in.

So I was wanting to see what options there are for key replacement in case I can’t make it work.

Re: Single replacement key for Steinway D?
jsilva #2870329 07/18/19 12:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 28,541
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 28,541
What glue did you use? If you can clean off the glue, or soften it, you might be able to correct the repair. Some glues are water soluble, and some soften with heat.

You do not need to use a lot of pressure if you have a tight fit, which is usually the case with broken keys. A good dry fit is essential!


Semipro Tech
Re: Single replacement key for Steinway D?
jsilva #2870350 07/18/19 02:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 315
J
jsilva Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 315
I used Elmers Wood Glue. I could get the pieces pretty much perfectly in position when dry. It was a decent fit. I applied pressure and held it for a bit before clamping, and I suppose the pressure from clamping made it move down somewhat.

Re: Single replacement key for Steinway D?
jsilva #2870352 07/18/19 02:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 270
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 270
A trick for next time (which may mean THIS time, actually.)

If you bring in one key to the shop for gluing, don't bring ONE key.

This may work, if you can un-glue the culprit.

Bring in the entire action (best way) or a group of keys surrounding the broken key. Take out the group and lay them together, including the broken one. Support them as necessary to get the group fitted to each other.

Restrain the group at each end, back ends and front ends, also.
Dry fit the culprit. Lay it into the group.
Examine. Recheck dry fit.
Does it fit correctly end-to-end?
Does it space evenly along the keys to each side?
Is it lying flat with its neighbors?
Is it against both the back stop and the front stop restraints you set up?

Plan a means to hold the culprit after gluing. (use paper, wax paper, spacer cardboard, etc to space it back into the group)
Apply the glue and your plan. Even stretched masking tape can provide enough pressure for the job.
Lay the glued culprit back in and triple check.

Your plan can even include lightly pressing the grouped keys against the culprit to assist in the final set-up. The point is to get it right, NOT tight.

Let it dry. Apply reinforcement to each side of the break, after the primary break is cured, if you choose to do so.



Note: It is even possible to do this on-site, after you un-glue the key in the shop ahead of time and let it dry out, etc. Using CA and the same techniques, you can fix it there.
(Pray for the Lord's help, of course, if you decide to glue a key with CA on a Steinway D. What could go wrong?)


Lavender Piano Services
Established 1977
Tuning, Concert Maintenance,
Rebuilding & Restoration
Re: Single replacement key for Steinway D?
jsilva #2870353 07/18/19 02:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 270
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 270
That glue is a polyvinyl acetate with added aliphatic resin. (I think) They normally respond to vinegar and water.

Worth a redo!


Lavender Piano Services
Established 1977
Tuning, Concert Maintenance,
Rebuilding & Restoration
Re: Single replacement key for Steinway D?
jsilva #2870387 07/18/19 04:49 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 249
B
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 249
A heat gun will take that apart especially if the glue is still pretty fresh (less than a day old).


Professional Piano Technician serving the Tampa bay area. website: mckaigpianoservice.com
Re: Single replacement key for Steinway D?
jsilva #2870389 07/18/19 04:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 28,541
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 28,541
Of course, the problem is not necessarily taking the glue joint apart, but correcting the alignment. Heat, perhaps with steam, would allow you to correct the alignment.


Semipro Tech
Re: Single replacement key for Steinway D?
jsilva #2870403 07/18/19 05:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 315
J
jsilva Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 315
Thanks for the suggestions!

I didn’t realise I could take the joint apart. I did it about 25 hours ago. I won’t be back there for 4-5 days so maybe I could try heating it up and adjusting it better to see if it lines up well enough for when I go back. If it doesn’t then maybe take it apart fully? If I can’t adjust it with heat then I’ll just take it apart and redo it while I’m there next time using the nice suggestions given.

Does that sound like a plan?

Re: Single replacement key for Steinway D?
jsilva #2870409 07/18/19 05:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 28,541
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 28,541
If I could not get this properly straightened out on site, I would probably take the entire keyframe assembly home, where I have more equipment. If all else failed, I would probably saw along the bad glue joint and glue it with some extra wood to fill in the kerf. It would still be tricky, however, but not a tricky as trying to get a single key, and a lot cheaper, easier, and faster than getting a new keyboard, if it works. But I would take the entire keyframe, because that is the only way you can ensure that everything fits correctly.


Semipro Tech
Re: Single replacement key for Steinway D?
jsilva #2870412 07/18/19 06:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,499
G
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,499
Iv always wanted to try making one.
Where did it break - the balance rail?
Are the balance rail hole or key button damaged?
Is there some sort of flaw in the wood from machining or nature?
Any idea why it broke?
Got a band saw?


RPT
PTG Member
Re: Single replacement key for Steinway D?
jsilva #2870419 07/18/19 06:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,499
G
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,499

If you can unglue your joint and clean it up to get that perfect dry fit as described earlier, I’d be tempted to coat all surfaces with slow set super glue, the thicker stuff, then quickly assemble the parts and have a trusted friend spray the joint with the kicker and you’ll have an instant bond that will be stronger than the keystick.
It pays to rehearse this before using the superglue if you dare try it.
If balance rail hole or key button is damaged you can buy pre made inserts.

Last edited by Gene Nelson; 07/18/19 06:20 PM.

RPT
PTG Member
Re: Single replacement key for Steinway D?
jsilva #2870455 07/18/19 08:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 315
J
jsilva Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 315
I guess I need to be brave ... smile My woodworking skills aren’t the best (even if I’d like them to be). I think I can do it though.

It broke on the front half of the key. Nothing sensitive or difficult and it was clean enough that there aren’t many splinters or missing bits.

Re: Single replacement key for Steinway D?
jsilva #2870463 07/18/19 09:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 315
J
jsilva Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 315
I just tried to heat it up and I wasn't able to get it to budge. Perhaps I'm being overly cautious trying to separate them.

I've attached photos for anyone curious. The first image looks like a decent fix (the crack over to the bottom right is superficial, and I think it came apart a bit with the clamp pressure) but with the side view you can see that the right side of the break didn't quite make it all of the way up. It was lined up nicely when I first did it.

I'll give vinegar a try in the next few days.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Last edited by jsilva; 07/18/19 09:19 PM.
Re: Single replacement key for Steinway D?
jsilva #2870475 07/18/19 10:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,049
P
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,049
The amount of heat necessary to "melt" the glue is significant. You will need a good heat gun. All PVA type glues turn to "rubber" under heat. Then you will need to clean the glue residue off the joint before trying again.

If it was me I would alter my schedule to go and get the entire key set and do as described above. It definitely will need reinforcement sides and top. Veneer strips or business cards glued on those surfaces work very well.

Bummer isn't it? Bet you'll never make this mistake again though, eh?

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Single replacement key for Steinway D?
jsilva #2870480 07/18/19 10:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 315
J
jsilva Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 315
Well ... I wouldn’t have expected to make that mistake this time smile

I’ll see if I can get there tomorrow or Sat. That’d ease my mind at a minimum. Thanks for the encouragement to do so.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Happy 4th!
Happy 4th of July
Happy 4th!
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Where Did The Buttons Go?!
----------------------
Our April 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
The Piano World During the Pandemic!
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
I LOVE VIENNA IMPERIAL!!!
by Harpuia - 07/04/20 09:48 PM
Help With My First Digital Piano!
by Hugo_FVF - 07/04/20 09:23 PM
Note Names
by samwitdangol - 07/04/20 08:18 PM
Get a new Kawai GX-2 ?
by Sammy111 - 07/04/20 07:48 PM
Bench recommendations?
by CajunJ - 07/04/20 07:29 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics200,033
Posts2,976,933
Members97,660
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4