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Re: Stage piano for Rock gigs [Re: LentoDoloroso] #2868441
07/11/19 04:19 PM
07/11/19 04:19 PM
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Sweelinck Offline
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I imagine the SP6 is a better keyboard. I was just providing info on the likely cheapest reasonable option. Would need to play anything chosen before purchase, especially with a weighted action.


Login name is a tribute to Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck, arguably the historically first great keyboard virtuoso.
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Re: Stage piano for Rock gigs [Re: LentoDoloroso] #2868490
07/11/19 07:17 PM
07/11/19 07:17 PM
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I second the suggestion for the Korg SV-1. It has a lot of excellent electric piano samples, and a good selection of organs, as well as decent acoustic pianos. And it looks cool!


Rodney Sauer
Kawai KG-2E • Kawai ES8
Re: Stage piano for Rock gigs [Re: LentoDoloroso] #2868500
07/11/19 07:51 PM
07/11/19 07:51 PM
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The SV-1 would generally work fine for rock music, which generally uses key signatures with 0-2 sharps or flats, But if you want to “play on the black keys”, I.e. with hand positioned over the keys where it would be close to the fall board on an acoustic piano, I’ve found Korg actions to be quite problematic (for me). Keyboards I’ve tried that were problematic for me in this way were Kronos, X50, and SV-1.


Login name is a tribute to Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck, arguably the historically first great keyboard virtuoso.
Re: Stage piano for Rock gigs [Re: Sweelinck] #2868772
07/12/19 01:49 PM
07/12/19 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Sweelinck
The SV-1 would generally work fine for rock music, which generally uses key signatures with 0-2 sharps or flats, But if you want to “play on the black keys”, I.e. with hand positioned over the keys where it would be close to the fall board on an acoustic piano, I’ve found Korg actions to be quite problematic (for me). Keyboards I’ve tried that were problematic for me in this way were Kronos, X50, and SV-1.


Yamaha CP73 has a similar but different problem in that playing black keys (playing a piece in E-flat minor is a good test) feel more slippery than most other models/manufacturers.

(EDIT: E-flat min. rather than maj.)

Last edited by rio197; 07/12/19 01:51 PM.

--
Roland FP-30, Yamaha CP73, Nektar Impact LX88+ on Cantabile
Previously: Yamaha P-115 (two years)
Re: Stage piano for Rock gigs [Re: LentoDoloroso] #2868841
07/12/19 05:28 PM
07/12/19 05:28 PM
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rock/pop practitioners might not have to contend with editing and transposing issues, but here's an anecdote related to key sig's with 'too many black keys'. most of Schubert's solo piano works were published and printed posthumously, and one publisher thought his now-famous G flat major Impromptu would be more popular in G major. even on digital instruments the difference in sound is probably huge.

Re: Stage piano for Rock gigs [Re: LentoDoloroso] #2868879
07/12/19 10:48 PM
07/12/19 10:48 PM
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Do you want to channel Doors, Jefferson Airplane, Janis and that whole genre?

Go get yourself a Nord Electro. Any vintage will work. You'll nail the B3, Vox and Farfisa. You'll nail the Rhords and Wurlies. Plenty of Mellotron samples if you find yourself doing Moody Blues.

The other suggestions are reasonable, but -- really -- got get yourself a Nord Electro.


Life is too short to be playing bad music.

Practice: Bosie 200, Yam N3
Live: Nord Piano 4, Stage 3 Compact
Amps: QSC K.2s, RCF TT08-s, FA 12-ac, CPS SSv3
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Re: Stage piano for Rock gigs [Re: LentoDoloroso] #2868913
07/13/19 06:37 AM
07/13/19 06:37 AM
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People are mentioning boards like Electro, SV1, and CP88 when the OP has very specifically said that he is looking for an 88 key weighted action that's no more than 1300 Euros. So without even getting into the pros and cons of these choices, they don't meet the specs.

Re: Stage piano for Rock gigs [Re: anotherscott] #2868938
07/13/19 10:16 AM
07/13/19 10:16 AM
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Doug M. Offline
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
People are mentioning boards like Electro, SV1, and CP88 when the OP has very specifically said that he is looking for an 88 key weighted action that's no more than 1300 Euros. So without even getting into the pros and cons of these choices, they don't meet the specs.


Used market 😉


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Stage piano for Rock gigs [Re: anotherscott] #2868940
07/13/19 10:27 AM
07/13/19 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
People are mentioning boards like Electro, SV1, and CP88 when the OP has very specifically said that he is looking for an 88 key weighted action that's no more than 1300 Euros. So without even getting into the pros and cons of these choices, they don't meet the specs.


Yamaha MODX8 is a good choice. It is actually possible to create nice sounding organ presets. Better than the ugly ones made by Yamaha sound designers just by using the default samples! The worst case scenario, you can buy a library...


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: Stage piano for Rock gigs [Re: Abdol] #2868944
07/13/19 10:39 AM
07/13/19 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug M.
Originally Posted by anotherscott
People are mentioning boards like Electro, SV1, and CP88 when the OP has very specifically said that he is looking for an 88 key weighted action that's no more than 1300 Euros. So without even getting into the pros and cons of these choices, they don't meet the specs.


Used market 😉

CP88 used would be a rare bird since they've only been shipping for a few months. No 88 key weighted Electro exists. But yeah, a used SV1-88 could be possible, and it may have enough sounds to get by... it is kinda weak on organ though. For the purpose at hand, I'd say a new SP6 better fills the bill than a used SV1.

Originally Posted by Abdol
Yamaha MODX8 is a good choice. It is actually possible to create nice sounding organ presets. Better than the ugly ones made by Yamaha sound designers just by using the default samples! The worst case scenario, you can buy a library...

Again, an example where you might find one in the price range if you look at used stuff, but for these purposes, I'd say SP6 is stronger.

Re: Stage piano for Rock gigs [Re: anotherscott] #2868963
07/13/19 12:12 PM
07/13/19 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by AnotherScott
since the CP88 used would be a rare bird since they've only been shipping for a few months. No 88 key weighted Electro exists. But yeah, a used SV1-88 could be possible, and it may have enough sounds to get by... it is kinda weak on organ though. For the purpose at hand, I'd say a new SP6 better fills the bill than a used SV1.

Originally Posted by Abdol
Yamaha MODX8 is a good choice. It is actually possible to create nice sounding organ presets. Better than the ugly ones made by Yamaha sound designers just by using the default samples! The worst case scenario, you can buy a library...

Again, an example where you might find one in the price range if you look at used stuff, but for these purposes, I'd say SP6 is stronger.



CP88 & ModX maybe, but agreed, non of those on the used end yet. I'd rather have a used Mp7 than a new SP6 tbh: better action and piano; eps and organs very strong; Synths strong... Great midi controller! Only thing from a gigging POV is that it's not as light as eg the CP4. Overall, the Mp7 has fantastic value for money on it's functionality and it's hard to argue that an SP6 completes due to its action. A Kurzweil Artis is maybe a better comparison functionality wise if the Fatar action isn't off putting.

I feel the SV-1 is just a nice compromise on weight although the Synths/organs are limited.

Another option is a light weight controller with the Dexibell sound module perhaps..



Andertons also showed a YouTube video of a very good and compact drawbar organ sound module with amp simulations which one could use.




Kind regards,

Doug.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Stage piano for Rock gigs [Re: LentoDoloroso] #2869123
07/14/19 01:39 AM
07/14/19 01:39 AM
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I don’t understand why Dexibell would produce a midi module with a non-horizontal case top. If not mounted in a rack, you cannot stack another device on top. If Dexibell can’t get that basic ergonomic issue right, the whole product is a non-starter for me.

If buying used, I would just get a Yamaha MOXF8 and be done with the decision.


Login name is a tribute to Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck, arguably the historically first great keyboard virtuoso.
Re: Stage piano for Rock gigs [Re: LentoDoloroso] #2869181
07/14/19 09:53 AM
07/14/19 09:53 AM
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Montreal, QC
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rio197 Offline
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
People are mentioning boards like Electro, SV1, and CP88 when the OP has very specifically said that he is looking for an 88 key weighted action that's no more than 1300 Euros. So without even getting into the pros and cons of these choices, they don't meet the specs.


Sorry, LentoDoloroso, for missing that part. A used Nord Electro in my area (Montreal) is around EUR 1700, but maybe you're not willing to push your price range. Meanwhile a used Korg SV1 in these shores is around EUR 1000. I don't know about the availability of the model in your area. I've listened to this model live and quite liked its sound. For your needs of organ sounds and 88-keys the latter might fit your needs. The SV1 weighs at 17.5 kg (38.5 lbs) which I find hefty to move around but maybe you gig regularly at a fixed venue.

A new Roland Juno DS88 is around EUR 1000. Looking at the specs of the keys it has Escapement, maybe that's a plus for you. Searching online, I saw a new Kurzweil SP6 in Ontario is about EUR 1200. Of course in your own area the actual prices will vary.
The DS88 is 3.8 kg (8.3 lbs) heavier than the SP6. I don't know how old your are, but my back is starting to feel every kilo whenever I lug an 88-key around smile Sound-wise, you'll have to test them live and see which one fits you better.

An example from Juno DS61 (organs start at 7:40): https://youtu.be/GqLqolq4oT8?list=PL-cEA8Yiw-AL4DEoxAvy81bzCJOtP_UfZ&t=460
Example from Kurzweil SP6: https://youtu.be/b2VBNGcKNOI?t=11

To comment on your specs, I'm not sure about using weighted keys to play entire songs in organ sound. I started out on the Yamaha Electone with non-weighted keys back in the day, but maybe you've gotten your hands and fingers used to the feeling of the extra weight.


--
Roland FP-30, Yamaha CP73, Nektar Impact LX88+ on Cantabile
Previously: Yamaha P-115 (two years)
Re: Stage piano for Rock gigs [Re: Doug M.] #2869242
07/14/19 01:04 PM
07/14/19 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug M.
I'd rather have a used Mp7 than a new SP6 tbh: better action and piano; eps and organs very strong; Synths strong... Great midi controller! Only thing from a gigging POV is that it's not as light

The Kawai is another good board, also mentioned earlier. I'm not sure which is stronger sonically for the organs/EPs task at hand, though I suspect it would be the Kurzweil. I like the MP7's EPs quite a lot... the issue for me there is the architecture. If I remember correctly, you can't save more than one user variation of any of its EP sounds. Kurz is also well known for having a bunch of EP and organ presets pre-tweaked for lots of old classic tunes, which could come in helpful.

Originally Posted by Sweelinck
If buying used, I would just get a Yamaha MOXF8 and be done with the decision.

I like the MOXF a lot, it was one of my main boards for years, but I think it is weakest exactly where the OP needs it to be strongest... organs and EPs. For "vintage keys" the SP6 is stronger. As is the SV1 a number of people have mentioned, though it's not great for organ.

If a used Korg SV1 comes close but you need more on the organ side, you could supplement it with a Yamaha Reface YC, which gives you all the organs, especially the 60s stuff. That combination is also visually retro which could be nice in this case. You could play the Reface from its own keys, or use a MIDI cable to play the Reface from the SV1's keys.

Re: Stage piano for Rock gigs [Re: Sweelinck] #2869254
07/14/19 01:33 PM
07/14/19 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Sweelinck
I don’t understand why Dexibell would produce a midi module with a non-horizontal case top.


Maybe for the same reason that they do digital piano keyboard lids that don't really work that well as a music rest.

...And then sell separate plexiglass music rests to clip onto the lid for anyone who needs ergonomics and/or a way to place loose sheet music sheets onto the music rest.

...And for the future VIVO H models changed the lid design to include an upright piano style folding music rest.

Style. cool

Re: Stage piano for Rock gigs [Re: anotherscott] #2869352
07/14/19 08:25 PM
07/14/19 08:25 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
I like the MP7's EPs quite a lot... the issue for me there is the architecture. If I remember correctly, you can't save more than one user variation of any of its EP sounds.


If you store changes to individual SETUP memories, you could theoretically create 256 different variations of the same EP sound.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Stage piano for Rock gigs [Re: Kawai James] #2869370
07/14/19 10:34 PM
07/14/19 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
If you store changes to individual SETUP memories, you could theoretically create 256 different variations of the same EP sound.

Thanks for the correction, I misremembered the issue I ran into. Although the inability to save modified programs as "Sounds" makes it awkward to use the same customized EP in multiple split/layered "Setups", those kinds of limitations are a relative thing... i.e. the SV1 we're also discussing doesn't let you create your own splits and layers at all.

Re: Stage piano for Rock gigs [Re: anotherscott] #2869373
07/14/19 10:52 PM
07/14/19 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Thanks for the correction, I misremembered the issue I ran into. Although the inability to save modified programs as "Sounds" makes it awkward to use the same customized EP in multiple split/layered "Setups"...


I think you could probably have saved a modified EP sound as a "one sound" file to USB memory, the loaded it into whichever Setup you're working with.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Stage piano for Rock gigs [Re: anotherscott] #2869398
07/15/19 03:27 AM
07/15/19 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott


If a used Korg SV1 comes close but you need more on the organ side, you could supplement it with a Yamaha Reface YC, which gives you all the organs, especially the 60s stuff. That combination is also visually retro which could be nice in this case. You could play the Reface from its own keys, or use a MIDI cable to play the Reface from the SV1's keys.



I think this might be a good way to go for fitting your budget. The Reface is a bit cheaper than the Ferrofish B4000 organ module (which focuses on tone-wheel only) and of course you get the Farfisa organ sounds and others on the Reface. Quite a lot of SV1's are on ebay too, so you could get a very nice deal on a used SV1.

To me, the idea of having an all singing stage piano is a bit of an issue: if you're really into organs, a waterfall keyboard is necessary to really dig in. Synths also don't really benefit from an 88 note weighted board. I'm not sure I would go for a one-size-fits all board at 1300 euros. In a perfect world, a semi-waterfall keyboard such as that on the Hammond SK1 would be the best compromise for a one board solution; however, I think two boards on a rack with different actions would be my solution. If you do try organ riffs on a fully weighted board, good look to your fingers.

KInd regards,

Doug.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Stage piano for Rock gigs [Re: LentoDoloroso] #2869400
07/15/19 04:09 AM
07/15/19 04:09 AM
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I agree re: weighted keys for organs. I would rather play piano patches on a good semi-weighted action than organs on a weighted-key action. I didn’t recommend it because it is not available new, and is hard to find used, but my preferred keyboard after a Nord Stage or Electro for classic rock is a Roland Jupiter-50. It offers a Roland Supernatural Piano sound, modeled virtual tonewheel organ, and virtual analog synthesizer with 128-voice polyphony. The main downside is that adjusting drawbars or VA synthesizer controls requires menu diving as there are not physical controls, so you won’t be adjusting them in real time. But it is much cheaper than a Nord.


Login name is a tribute to Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck, arguably the historically first great keyboard virtuoso.
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