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Re: Early computer scaling [Re: Craig Hair] #2753776
07/25/18 12:02 PM
07/25/18 12:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 728
Numbered Offline
500 Post Club Member
Numbered  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 728
Thank you Gene


Numbered
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Re: Early computer scaling [Re: Gene Nelson] #2753861
07/25/18 07:50 PM
07/25/18 07:50 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 660
New Hampshire
W
WilliamTruitt Offline
500 Post Club Member
WilliamTruitt  Offline
500 Post Club Member
W

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 660
New Hampshire
i used to have P-scale, and it is a nice program. But it won't do the calculations needed for Practical breaking load percentage when you are scaling with various Paulello wire types. I have been using Arno Patin's Abacus spreadsheet. You will need to have Microsoft Excel in order to run it. Available here: https://www.arnopianos.com/price-list. It allows you to choose and calculate M, O, 1, 2, and XM wiretypes. Type M is the equivalent of Roslau or Mapes.

I encourage you to call Arno and have a chat. He is a very friendly and knowledgeable fellow.

Will


fine grand piano custom rebuilding, piano technician and tuner
Re: Early computer scaling [Re: Bernhard Stopper] #2868625
07/12/19 05:50 AM
07/12/19 05:50 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 21
I
Ivan Jochner Offline
Full Member
Ivan Jochner  Offline
Full Member
I

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by Bernhard Stopper


...

These vocal changes can be simulated (audio output) for example with the Mensurix scaling program which i have introduced in 2004.
...

Bernhard Stopper


Dear Mr. Stopper,

Would Mensurix 5 be able to calculate bass strings thickness and scale (core, inner/outer wounding) just having had only speaking/non speaking lengths measurements? - (Iron frame pin-Bridge pin- Agraffe.)


2. Can Mensurix 5 recalculate old scales for better sounding results?

Thanks in advance/

Ivan Jochner RPT (Ukraine)

Re: Early computer scaling [Re: Craig Hair] #2868656
07/12/19 08:51 AM
07/12/19 08:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 535
Chesterfield. MA
C
Craig Hair Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Craig Hair  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 535
Chesterfield. MA
I'm still confused about the Young's modulus.

If I take a fresh length of Mapes wire, nip it in half, and heat one half and fully anneal it; have I not changed the YM, or have I just changed the elastic limit?


Craig Hair
Hampshire Piano
Chesterfield, MA
Conservative Piano Restoration
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Re: Early computer scaling [Re: Craig Hair] #2868849
07/12/19 06:37 PM
07/12/19 06:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 173
Washington State
AWilley Offline

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AWilley  Offline

Full Member

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 173
Washington State
Originally Posted by Craig Hair
I'm still confused about the Young's modulus.


Young's Modulus is a property of the material that is related to its stiffness. Take a length of wire and bend it into a "U" shape. The difficulty of making the bend depends on the thickness and length, and also the Young's modulus. The reason Young's Modulus is important is it affects the inharmonicity, and it's in the tenor where you have the foreshortening of the treble bridge requiring thicker (stiffer) strings that cause high inharmonicity, all in a tone where there are many harmonics.

I don't know enough to speculate if annealing the wire would soften it, lowering Young's Modulus, or if it would partially reverse whatever heat treatment the string has already undergone in the factory.


Anthony Willey, RPT
PianoMeter
Willey Piano Tuning
Re: Early computer scaling [Re: Craig Hair] #2868986
07/13/19 01:11 PM
07/13/19 01:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,596
New Hampshire
P
P W Grey Offline
2000 Post Club Member
P W Grey  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,596
New Hampshire
Lower YM was supposed to be one of the hallmarks of Puresound stainless steel wire. I liked the sound and workability of that wire but did not like its tendency to break prematurely. I still use it in rescaling applications but no smaller than 16.5 gauge. Too risky.

The most significant benefit it seems is that a lower YM makes the bends sharper and earlier in its lifespan, effectively increasing the actual vibratibg length of the wire, thus also lowering (or at least changing) the inharmonicity.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
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