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Re: Help with Studying Piano [Re: Hakki] #2865833
07/04/19 04:53 AM
07/04/19 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Hakki
Originally Posted by pianoforeverxxx
I have been playing the piano for almost nine years. I took piano lessons for eight.


And you can't count?
Hard to believe.


That is about 400 lessons in total assuming weekly lessons. Hence my comment.

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Re: Help with Studying Piano [Re: TwelfthRoot2] #2866070
07/04/19 07:00 PM
07/04/19 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TwelfthRoot2
Originally Posted by pianoforeverxxx
Wow, what an interesting manner of looking at this. No one has ever told me what you have. It totally makes sense. I love the piano so much, but I am always thinking about what I could be doing wrong when I play it. I am always tense when I play the piano because I fear making a mistake. I feel that this is really a big problem whenever I play the piano. So much good can come out of your advice. I would like to thank you for bringing this to my attention. Now, I will actively work on getting to know the piano better. Thanks again for your great advice!


The thing is, being tense won't actually help your accuracy. So going into a strike or hand position lacking confidence is defeating the purpose. It'll make it harder to be accurate AND the added tension will make it more difficult to develop good muscle memory. Muscle memory is learned best when you are comfortable and relaxed. Usually when people have lots of tension it's because they are trying to play too fast (muscles that lift the finger and the muscles that press down are opposing each other), or the pianist is opening the hand further than it feels comfortable and you're fighting tight muscles or the limits of your anatomy. In your case it's because you're scared. Don't be scared. You're not on stage smile

For example, practicing a large jump many times in a row with a tight hand may convince you that you're playing it well because your accuracy is getting better, but you'll notice that if you stop repeating this motion and get up from the piano and then go back to trying the jump that your accuracy is now a lot worse. The next day it may be marginally better but this isn't good enough. The reason is that you never developed a confidence and comfort. So try practicing the jump with a relaxed hand and play it confidently. If you miss the notes at the beginning it's fine. This should quickly improve. Then if you take a quick break, walk around a little, and come back to the piano you should feel noticeably more confident. I'm convinced that improvement should happen this quickly. Of course there is a limit to how much you can improve in a day and overworking will eventually hit a wall where no improvement is made. That's what a good night's sleep and the next day are for.

PS, when replying to a message on this forum it's better to use the "quote" button instead of "reply".






You have convinced me that confidence is an immense part of a piano player's performance. I am so glad for the advice that you are giving me. I will work extra-hard on becoming more relaxed at the piano. I very much hope that, by applying your tips and those of others, my piano playing will improve (through hard work, of course).

Oh, and thanks for the tip on how to reply! smile

Re: Help with Studying Piano [Re: pianoforeverxxx] #2866319
07/05/19 01:08 PM
07/05/19 01:08 PM
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Get a Louis Bellson book, set a metronome away and count and clap.

If your issue is counting and rhythm reading then get some drumming books which focus on rhythms.

Re: Help with Studying Piano [Re: pianoforeverxxx] #2866355
07/05/19 04:45 PM
07/05/19 04:45 PM
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IMO if you were not able to learn counting after 400 lessons a few posts here won't help you. There is something fishy here that I don't get.

Re: Help with Studying Piano [Re: Hakki] #2866359
07/05/19 04:54 PM
07/05/19 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Hakki
IMO if you were not able to learn counting after 400 lessons a few posts here won't help you. There is something fishy here that I don't get.


And how many times do you need to say the same thing? This is number three

Re: Help with Studying Piano [Re: pianoforeverxxx] #2866361
07/05/19 05:08 PM
07/05/19 05:08 PM
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I know others with years of lessons who do not seem to understand the mathematical structure of rhythm in music and so cannot count notated music. I have also tried to help a couple and we did get somewhere but they ran out of motivation to keep working on it on their own. If you really want to learn it would help to work on it with someone, does not necessarily have to be a teacher. This is something you just need to understand and then practice, but maybe someone should show you what to do first.

Re: Help with Studying Piano [Re: dogperson] #2866363
07/05/19 05:15 PM
07/05/19 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by Hakki
IMO if you were not able to learn counting after 400 lessons a few posts here won't help you. There is something fishy here that I don't get.


And how many times do you need to say the same thing? This is number three


I asked for a video. Hope OP posts one.

Re: Help with Studying Piano [Re: outo] #2866757
07/06/19 08:50 PM
07/06/19 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by outo
I know others with years of lessons who do not seem to understand the mathematical structure of rhythm in music and so cannot count notated music. I have also tried to help a couple and we did get somewhere but they ran out of motivation to keep working on it on their own. If you really want to learn it would help to work on it with someone, does not necessarily have to be a teacher. This is something you just need to understand and then practice, but maybe someone should show you what to do first.




Hello, you stated that I do not need to have a teacher help me, but it would be beneficial to have someone help me. Can it be anyone? Or does it have to be someone that understands the fundamentals of piano?

Re: Help with Studying Piano [Re: Hakki] #2866763
07/06/19 09:02 PM
07/06/19 09:02 PM
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pianoforeverxxx Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Hakki
IMO if you were not able to learn counting after 400 lessons a few posts here won't help you. There is something fishy here that I don't get.





It may be hard to believe but it is the truth. I came here for advice. I know others will not solve my problems for me, but I can use their tips to aid me in better practicing on the piano and hopefully improving.

Also, I am a bit timid, so I do not like the idea of posting a video.

Re: Help with Studying Piano [Re: pianoforeverxxx] #2866820
07/06/19 11:09 PM
07/06/19 11:09 PM
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outo Offline
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Originally Posted by pianoforeverxxx
Originally Posted by outo
I know others with years of lessons who do not seem to understand the mathematical structure of rhythm in music and so cannot count notated music. I have also tried to help a couple and we did get somewhere but they ran out of motivation to keep working on it on their own. If you really want to learn it would help to work on it with someone, does not necessarily have to be a teacher. This is something you just need to understand and then practice, but maybe someone should show you what to do first.




Hello, you stated that I do not need to have a teacher help me, but it would be beneficial to have someone help me. Can it be anyone? Or does it have to be someone that understands the fundamentals of piano?


It has to be someone who knows basic music theory and how to explain it and show you how you learn and practice counting. Sometimes piano teachers just assume you know this and concentrate on other things. But you need to be willing to change how you approach a new piece. Not listen to it but find out how it goes from the notation. There are a couple of ways to look at time values, I prefer to see them as fractions and just figure out how they fill the measure ie whole note in different voices. Even now if the rhythm is very complex and the measure is packed with notes I may write down the counts in a measure to make sure I read it correctly. In addition you must understand meters to know how the beats create a pulse. That's all. You need to work on this until you get the idea and know how to count different meters correctly. It's pure mathematics actually, which may be why some people find it a bit intimidating...

Re: Help with Studying Piano [Re: pianoforeverxxx] #2866867
07/07/19 04:12 AM
07/07/19 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted by pianoforeverxxx
Originally Posted by Hakki
IMO if you were not able to learn counting after 400 lessons a few posts here won't help you. There is something fishy here that I don't get.





It may be hard to believe but it is the truth. I came here for advice. I know others will not solve my problems for me, but I can use their tips to aid me in better practicing on the piano and hopefully improving.

Also, I am a bit timid, so I do not like the idea of posting a video.


An audio recording would help too.

Re: Help with Studying Piano [Re: fatar760] #2867094
07/07/19 05:45 PM
07/07/19 05:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,063
Richmond, BC, Canada
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Charles Cohen Offline
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Originally Posted by fatar760
Get a Louis Bellson book, set a metronome away and count and clap.

If your issue is counting and rhythm reading then get some drumming books which focus on rhythms.


+1.

But I would also find a live drum teacher, and explain my problem, and ask for help.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Help with Studying Piano [Re: outo] #2868506
07/11/19 08:07 PM
07/11/19 08:07 PM
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pianoforeverxxx Offline OP
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Originally Posted by outo
Originally Posted by pianoforeverxxx
Originally Posted by outo
I know others with years of lessons who do not seem to understand the mathematical structure of rhythm in music and so cannot count notated music. I have also tried to help a couple and we did get somewhere but they ran out of motivation to keep working on it on their own. If you really want to learn it would help to work on it with someone, does not necessarily have to be a teacher. This is something you just need to understand and then practice, but maybe someone should show you what to do first.




Hello, you stated that I do not need to have a teacher help me, but it would be beneficial to have someone help me. Can it be anyone? Or does it have to be someone that understands the fundamentals of piano?


It has to be someone who knows basic music theory and how to explain it and show you how you learn and practice counting. Sometimes piano teachers just assume you know this and concentrate on other things. But you need to be willing to change how you approach a new piece. Not listen to it but find out how it goes from the notation. There are a couple of ways to look at time values, I prefer to see them as fractions and just figure out how they fill the measure ie whole note in different voices. Even now if the rhythm is very complex and the measure is packed with notes I may write down the counts in a measure to make sure I read it correctly. In addition you must understand meters to know how the beats create a pulse. That's all. You need to work on this until you get the idea and know how to count different meters correctly. It's pure mathematics actually, which may be why some people find it a bit intimidating...






Thank you for the tip. I will attempt to look at them as fractions and in a mathematical manner. What is the difference between a beat and a pulse?

Re: Help with Studying Piano [Re: pianoforeverxxx] #2868513
07/11/19 08:32 PM
07/11/19 08:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,530
Finland
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outo Offline
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Originally Posted by pianoforeverxxx
Originally Posted by outo
Originally Posted by pianoforeverxxx
Originally Posted by outo
I know others with years of lessons who do not seem to understand the mathematical structure of rhythm in music and so cannot count notated music. I have also tried to help a couple and we did get somewhere but they ran out of motivation to keep working on it on their own. If you really want to learn it would help to work on it with someone, does not necessarily have to be a teacher. This is something you just need to understand and then practice, but maybe someone should show you what to do first.




Hello, you stated that I do not need to have a teacher help me, but it would be beneficial to have someone help me. Can it be anyone? Or does it have to be someone that understands the fundamentals of piano?


It has to be someone who knows basic music theory and how to explain it and show you how you learn and practice counting. Sometimes piano teachers just assume you know this and concentrate on other things. But you need to be willing to change how you approach a new piece. Not listen to it but find out how it goes from the notation. There are a couple of ways to look at time values, I prefer to see them as fractions and just figure out how they fill the measure ie whole note in different voices. Even now if the rhythm is very complex and the measure is packed with notes I may write down the counts in a measure to make sure I read it correctly. In addition you must understand meters to know how the beats create a pulse. That's all. You need to work on this until you get the idea and know how to count different meters correctly. It's pure mathematics actually, which may be why some people find it a bit intimidating...






Thank you for the tip. I will attempt to look at them as fractions and in a mathematical manner. What is the difference between a beat and a pulse?


Pulse is the overall feel of rythm, how the music "flows". It is created from fixed even "beating" with stronger and weaker individual beats repeated in a similar matter in every measure. This cycle of stronger and weaker beats repeats itself consistently throughout the piece creating a pulse to the music.

I hope this makes sense to you. English is not my first language and I have studied music theory on my own, some usage of concepts may differ.

Last edited by outo; 07/11/19 08:36 PM.
Re: Help with Studying Piano [Re: outo] #2868835
07/12/19 05:01 PM
07/12/19 05:01 PM
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Pulse is the overall feel of rythm, how the music "flows". It is created from fixed even "beating" with stronger and weaker individual beats repeated in a similar matter in every measure. This cycle of stronger and weaker beats repeats itself consistently throughout the piece creating a pulse to the music.

I hope this makes sense to you. English is not my first language and I have studied music theory on my own, some usage of concepts may differ.
[/quote]



Yes, this makes a lot of sense; thank you! Also, your English is very good. I could not even tell that it is not your first language!

Re: Help with Studying Piano [Re: pianoforeverxxx] #2868888
07/13/19 12:35 AM
07/13/19 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by pianoforeverxxx

Yes, this makes a lot of sense; thank you! Also, your English is very good. I could not even tell that it is not your first language!


Thanks!

This may all be already clear to you, but I'll try to explain in a simple matter how it works on practice:

When counting you try to keep the counting even in time, but also accentuate the stronger beats, it helps you play with a correct pulse.
Like this: ONE-two-three|ONE-two-three. In this example you count to three in each measure because the meter of the piece is written 3/x where x presents any time value, a quarter note for example. What beats to accentuate in a certain meter is just something you need to know, basic music theory.
In sheet music the notes to play do not necessarily fall on those 3 beats but can be in between and shorter, that's when it often helps to write in the counts in the music to understand how the playing and counting go together correctly. When there are many short notes to play in music, it may be easier to count in shorter units than the x represents. In English you can do it like this: ONE-and-two-and-three-and|ONE...

Just let me know if this wasn't clear smile

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