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[2019] chosse between kawai es110 and cassio px-s1000
#2868188 07/10/19 11:41 PM
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Hi
I m just simply salary man at 30 and now suddenly want to learn more about piano .I'm going to chose my 1st DP and hard to decisive between kawai es110 and casio px-s1000(yamaha p125 and roland f30 is kick out of my list for some reason).
I think i must focus in key action first and as other review es110 have better key action.
Both use 2 sensor in key but casio have software solution to make 2 sensor become virtual 3 sensor .
So confuse , I don't know which one should chosse. Pls help me.


I work in a data analyst position.
I started learning about the piano in 2019.
Kawai ES110 & Ipad gen 6


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Re: [2019] chosse between kawai es110 and cassio px-s1000
beginer #2868197 07/11/19 12:14 AM
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In my opinion, you can't go wrong with Kawai. They excel at having the best action at every price point/category. Also, Bluetooth MIDI is fun.

Re: [2019] chosse between kawai es110 and cassio px-s1000
beginer #2868199 07/11/19 12:26 AM
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Kawai ES110
Roland FP10

Re: [2019] chosse between kawai es110 and cassio px-s1000
navindra #2868216 07/11/19 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by navindra
In my opinion, you can't go wrong with Kawai. They excel at having the best action at every price point/category. Also, Bluetooth MIDI is fun.

+1 - true having tried the PXS1000 the Kawai (which I have tried in the past) has the better action out of the two.

Re: [2019] chosse between kawai es110 and cassio px-s1000
jamiecw #2868217 07/11/19 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by navindra
In my opinion, you can't go wrong with Kawai. They excel at having the best action at every price point/category. Also, Bluetooth MIDI is fun.

Thank you .I know about reputation of Kawai in both key action and the sample sound they made in piano but casio px-s1000 is new and I heared alot about their new feature with 2 sensor..And beside that you remind me about bluetooth MIDI which I already don't know. Hmm so don't need cable to ipad in kawai es110 that is alot of fun .
Originally Posted by jamiecw
Originally Posted by navindra
In my opinion, you can't go wrong with Kawai. They excel at having the best action at every price point/category. Also, Bluetooth MIDI is fun.

+1 - true having tried the PXS1000 the Kawai (which I have tried in the past) has the better action out of the two.

Thank you very much. I alway want to know direct compare between es110 and px-s1000 in key action .You help me alot


I work in a data analyst position.
I started learning about the piano in 2019.
Kawai ES110 & Ipad gen 6


Re: [2019] chosse between kawai es110 and cassio px-s1000
beginer #2868219 07/11/19 03:04 AM
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Hello begin ẻ,

My recommendation would be to purchase the instrument that you enjoy playing the most, rather than concentrating too much on the thoughts of others.

Also, may I ask why you decided to remove the Roland FP30 and Yamaha P-125 from your list? These are both excellent pianos for the price.

Kind regards,
James
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Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: [2019] chosse between kawai es110 and cassio px-s1000
Kawai James #2868263 07/11/19 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James

My recommendation would be to purchase the instrument that you enjoy playing the most, rather than concentrating too much on the thoughts of others.


KJ, whilst I do agree with you and all others (myself included) whose advise is "buy what you enjoy" truth of the matter is that sometimes this advice isn't really fit for purpose, especially to those who've never played the piano before/just starting out.

It goes without saying, that if one has never played piano before, there is little in the way of knowing, this piano is better or that one is not as good, especially on touch/action and why would they? It'll be like asking them to recommend a car yet they never drove a car (and picking a car because of it's red or blue doesn't cut it). And that is where these forums come into play, otherwise just have a sticky and auto reply for all new piano queries saying 'buy the one you like the most'.

This only works after one has experience playing (preferably at the very least intermediate level) and have played a variety of pianos to be able to make that sound judgement.

Re: [2019] chosse between kawai es110 and cassio px-s1000
beginer #2868282 07/11/19 06:31 AM
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Good point.


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: [2019] chosse between kawai es110 and cassio px-s1000
beginer #2868292 07/11/19 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by begin ẻ
Hi
I m just simply salary man at 30 and now suddenly want to learn more about piano .I'm going to chose my 1st DP and hard to decisive between kawai es110 and casio px-s1000(yamaha p125 and roland f30 is kick out of my list for some reason).
I think i must focus in key action first and as other review es110 have better key action.
Both use 2 sensor in key but casio have software solution to make 2 sensor become virtual 3 sensor .
So confuse , I don't know which one should chosse. Pls help me.


Hi Begin ẻ,

Every time someone asks about beginners instruments, I post this comment.
Digital pianos depreciate in price faster than cars do. Therefore, rather than spending £600-800 (670 to 890 Euros) on a new beginner board, consider checking out eBay and other online websites (Facebook marketplace, craigs list, gumtree and other local alternatives) to find an intermediate level digital piano that is less than 5 years old.

This way, you get a far better piano for your money!
Also, sometimes you get used deals on these beginner pianos which might save you a few hundred dollars.

Kind regards,

Doug.


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7SE; Past - Kawai MP7, Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: [2019] chosse between kawai es110 and cassio px-s1000
beginer #2868305 07/11/19 07:45 AM
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The difference between 2-sensor and 3-sensor is unimportant for a new player (and even most advanced players, IMO). Insisting on 3-sensor is like insisting that you must have a grand piano, an upright won't do. I make that comparison specifically because grands have the equivalent of a DP's 3-sensor functionality, while uprights behave more like 2-sensor DPs... the point being that, when it comes to acoustics, far more people play uprights than grands, and are very happy with them, even if they are advanced players. And there are certainly some 2-sensor DPs that I think most would agree are far better than some other 3-sensor DPs. It's just not all that important, especially for a new player. Or to extend your car analogy, it's like someone who has never driven before choosing a car because it has a 6-speed manual transmission instead of a 5-speed. In the list of top ten things to care about, it wouldn't even make the list.

p.s. -- this is not meant to denigrate whatever Casio is doing with their new action, which I haven't tried yet, and might play better regardless of how successfully it does or does not emulate the behavior associated with 3 sensors.

Last edited by anotherscott; 07/11/19 07:47 AM.
Re: [2019] chosse between kawai es110 and cassio px-s1000
beginer #2868602 07/12/19 03:35 AM
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I bought a Kawai CL26, new, as a total beginner years ago...then moved and stoped using it. Then I bought a new ES110.
In both cases, it would literally be years of practice before I can say I need a better instrument.
If you ve never played before and just trying to figure out the notes at first.... like KJ said... you just have to enjoy using it rather than worrying about sensors and other features..
Unless you re a prodigy and start playing Bach in 6 months to a year.... I would with a reasonably priced option you would enjoy and start hitting those keys.


Kawai ES110

Re: [2019] chosse between kawai es110 and cassio px-s1000
anotherscott #2868676 07/12/19 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
The difference between 2-sensor and 3-sensor is unimportant for a new player (and even most advanced players, IMO). Insisting on 3-sensor is like insisting that you must have a grand piano, an upright won't do. I make that comparison specifically because grands have the equivalent of a DP's 3-sensor functionality, while uprights behave more like 2-sensor DPs... the point being that, when it comes to acoustics, far more people play uprights than grands, and are very happy with them, even if they are advanced players. And there are certainly some 2-sensor DPs that I think most would agree are far better than some other 3-sensor DPs. It's just not all that important, especially for a new player. Or to extend your car analogy, it's like someone who has never driven before choosing a car because it has a 6-speed manual transmission instead of a 5-speed. In the list of top ten things to care about, it wouldn't even make the list.
Agree 100%. I'm not a very advanced player and I'm dying for an excuse to move up from my ES110, but every time I audition a more expensive model with triple-sensor capability, my trills don't sound any better than they do at home! smile

Re: [2019] chosse between kawai es110 and cassio px-s1000
beginer #2868684 07/12/19 09:12 AM
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I had been playing an upright piano for many years, then digital pianos with two sensors. I was so much used to playing trills by releasing the keys fully that I haven't even realized I can play them any other way, it was internalized in my muscle memory. It took me a whole year with my first triple-sensor piano, the ES7, to gradually adjust my technique and play quiet trills near the bottom, without releasing the keys fully. It won't happen overnight. Your "two-sensor" trills won't sound any different on a triple-sensor action. However playing trills on a triple-sensor action or real grand-piano action allows for a much controlled and fluent trills once you know how to take advantage of it. IMO.

Last edited by CyberGene; 07/12/19 09:13 AM.

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Re: [2019] chosse between kawai es110 and cassio px-s1000
CyberGene #2868767 07/12/19 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Your "two-sensor" trills won't sound any different on a triple-sensor action. However playing trills on a triple-sensor action or real grand-piano action allows for a much controlled and fluent trills once you know how to take advantage of it. IMO.
Thanks for that. Point taken!

Re: [2019] chosse between kawai es110 and cassio px-s1000
beginer #2868864 07/12/19 06:46 PM
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Try them in person before you buy and choose the one that feels best to you. I don't think there's a huge amount of difference between digitals at a similar price point. The general rule is that in online discussions the "bias" is *generally* going to be in favor of Kawai, Yamaha and Roland and against Casio. But you should try for yourself.
However, whichever one you choose I would suggest that you get a pedal board as well.

Re: [2019] chosse between kawai es110 and cassio px-s1000
beginer #2868872 07/12/19 07:18 PM
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By the way, if I'm not mistaken all the Privia series models have essentially the same action. The PX-S1000 is described as being tri-sensor.

Re: [2019] chosse between kawai es110 and cassio px-s1000
rmns2bseen #2868900 07/13/19 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
The general rule is that in online discussions the "bias" is *generally* going to be in favor of Kawai, Yamaha and Roland and against Casio. But you should try for yourself.


While this is true, personally I think it’s an unfair bias. I think many of us remember the toy pianos Casio released in the past, and can’t get over it.

I’ve had a Kawai MP10 which I had to sell for financial reasons, then a MP7.

While I loved the actions of these, at the time I wasn’t learning to play properly and was just messing around while also playing my synth keyboard.

When I first got the MP10 I thought it was the best keybed I had ever played. But after a few months I found it sort of squishy. Not sure if that’s the right word, it kind of felt like I was pressing keys through a soft sludge. But at the time, all I had played for the previous 30 plus years were synths.

When I got my MP7, I much preferred its keybed to the MP10.

I decided to get a cabinet piano situated away from my PC so that I could concentrate on learning to play, rather than getting distracted by my various VSTs etc.

I went to a piano shop that had both Casio and Kawai, tried a few and while I liked one of the Kawai’s, I also liked the Casio PX 870.

Yes I could feel a difference between them, but in my inexperienced mind, I couldn’t rate one as better than the other.

I went with the Casio, that was December last year. 7 months later I love the feel just as much as the day I bought it.

Sure in years to come as I learn more, I suspect if I went into a piano store and tried all their digitals I would find ones that I can express myself much better on, but there is zero need for me to spend the extra money on that now. Also, I wouldn’t know what to look for at the moment as my playing is just as bad on anything.

From my synth days I can play quickish arpeggios, scales etc, and doing so on my Casio I absolutely love the feel.

While I can understand very experienced players wanting the best, I do feel there’s a little unfair snobbery against Casio.

Re: [2019] chosse between kawai es110 and cassio px-s1000
beginer #2868902 07/13/19 02:47 AM
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Casio were for some time the cheapest possible digital pianos with acceptable action (and unacceptable sound but you can use VST-s). However there are now other entry level digital pianos in the same price range with better action and better sound.


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Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: [2019] chosse between kawai es110 and cassio px-s1000
rmns2bseen #2868904 07/13/19 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by rmns2bseen
By the way, if I'm not mistaken all the Privia series models have essentially the same action. The PX-S1000 is described as being tri-sensor.


The PX-S1000 uses a different two sensor keybed, but according to this review it works just as well as, if not better than their tri sensor ones.

https://www.pianodreamers.com/casio-px-s1000-review/

Quote

Casio’s Privia line of digital pianos has been around for a long time. Their Tri Sensor Hammer Action II has been a proven key action that is popular and feels realistic.

The only true complaint people have against concerns bounciness and inherent noisiness (which, to be fair, is barely noticeable during play). Overall, I’ve been happy with the Privia pianos I’ve played through the years.

With the PX-S1000, Casio opted to use a different key action, one that is designed to fit the slimmer chassis. Casio calls this the Smart Scaled Hammer Action.

To be clear, these are no longer triple sensor actions; they are two-sensor actions instead.

Triple sensor actions have been Casio’s mainstay for years. When you press each key, it passes through each of the three sensors, eventually passing the lowermost sensor as you hit the bottom of the key bed.

Once you slowly release the keys, you can retrigger the sound by passing the middle sensor. As such, triple sensor actions offer more accuracy.

Casio opted to go with a new, smart, 2-sensor hammer action due to its better performance showed during thorough tests.

A two-sensor action might seem like a downgrade, but it’s not entirely true.

Casio’s action isn’t called “Smart” for nothing. Between both sensors, a software-based solution determines how deep your keypresses will be.

During play, I found that this two-sensor action is as good, if not better than the three-sensor actions available on previous Privia keyboards.

Judging by fellow reviewer’s thoughts after playing the PX-S1000 at the NAMM show, it seems like the PX-S1000 has enjoyed an unanimously positive reception.

The keys themselves are plastic and simulate ivory and ebony, giving them a textured feel ideal for play.

There’s a subtle grip on each keypress, and that’s something you don’t really expect on affordable keyboards in the PX-S1000’s price bracket.

A primary improvement of this new action is a silent mechanism that makes it one of the quietest key actions in its category.

There are also a few other minor improvements, including reduced bounciness and a slightly redesigned texture on the keys.

Apart from that, the new action felt quite similar to the previous Tri-sensor Scaled Hammer Action II regarding mechanical movement and physics.

Re: [2019] chosse between kawai es110 and cassio px-s1000
Ojustaboo #2868906 07/13/19 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Ojustaboo
[quote=rmns2bseen] I think many of us remember the toy pianos Casio released in the past, and can’t get over it.
.....
While I can understand very experienced players wanting the best, I do feel there’s a little unfair snobbery against Casio.


The only snobbery would come from people who never tried a lot of pianos, have little to no experience and make statements because of hearsay.

Not true in my case, I never grew up on keyboards and have no reason to be snobbish or bias at Casio (I even bought one having liked it at the store and regretted it later, an AP470, good value for the price range but ultimately failed to live up the hype). I simply call it how I see it, and I see that Yamaha, Roland and Kawai (at least the mid-range and above models) are just better (in both sound and action) - I wish people could also accept this rather than just spout out snobbery bias...

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