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Re: Do Kawai still have the sticky key problem?
Togge #2868668 07/12/19 08:26 AM
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You probably wont know there is an issue by opening the box and check the keyboard. This sticky key problem does not happen right away, am I right?
I have a CA58 for 3 months, and so far has no issue. TBH, there is always risk to buy big item, too much work to bring it back to store, even worst if you bought online. If you didnt have confident in Kawai DP , you should check the other 2 you mentioned, try them out and see if you like them.

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Re: Do Kawai still have the sticky key problem?
Togge #2868674 07/12/19 08:39 AM
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That's a good point, Romar. I wonder how many people here would have avoided headaches by doing what you suggest?

But ... if you buy from an online retailer you don't have that luxury, eh? frown

Re: Do Kawai still have the sticky key problem?
Togge #2868699 07/12/19 10:14 AM
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Just to add my experience in here. I have a CA-95 just passed the warranty period and now have a couple of sticky keys. I did not notice any issues around this out of the box or the first few years. Seems to be something that eventually develops over time. So an inspection up front is not going to guarantee you will not have issues. At some point, I'll open it up and fix the sticking keys.

Not just because of this, but with the sagging top and two blown amps within days of deliver, I would be hesitant to buy another Kawai. It seems they miss in their design process these logical areas where more engineering or more testing is needed to build in robustness.

Obviously you want people to upgrade at some point to a newer piano from you, but if the initial customer experience is bad, then you will not get the repeat business. I should mention my first piano (which I sold within the first 3 months) from them which was a CN-35 had bad artifacts in some of the samples. So I did at least give them a second chance. I hope Kawai does a better job in the future, but my experience with them has been soured.

Last edited by bsntn99; 07/12/19 10:19 AM.
Re: Do Kawai still have the sticky key problem?
bsntn99 #2868726 07/12/19 11:26 AM
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Could you elaborate on what you mean about sagging tops?

Re: Do Kawai still have the sticky key problem?
Romar #2868736 07/12/19 11:37 AM
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If you've been married for a few decades you know the answer ...
Originally Posted by Romar
Could you elaborate on what you mean about sagging tops?
I just could not resist!
smile smile smile

Re: Do Kawai still have the sticky key problem?
MacMacMac #2868738 07/12/19 11:42 AM
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Holy cow man tell me about it. GFs given birth to two kids and just finished breastfeeding. Luckily there if a solution to both these problems! Plastic! grin

For real though, I feel like the only way to get a reliable key action these days is to downgrade to plastic keys.

Re: Do Kawai still have the sticky key problem?
Togge #2868783 07/12/19 01:05 PM
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Romar - may I kindly suggest that I bit of respect is used when talking about the fair sex here - this should be a place that is nice to be around whatever your gender may be.

Cheers

Re: Do Kawai still have the sticky key problem?
MacMacMac #2868804 07/12/19 01:53 PM
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Just having some fun mate. No disrespect meant. As my mate MacMacMac said:
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I just could not resist!
smile smile smile

Re: Do Kawai still have the sticky key problem?
Togge #2868816 07/12/19 02:49 PM
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I’m sure you weren’t trying to make anyone uncomfortable but I do believe it is good to keep in mind that this is not a boys club and keep the tone somewhat sober.
Regarding your worries about potential problems down the road there is really no good way to safe guard against this short of not getting a DP at all. Acoustics come with their own kinds of issues but at least the actions etc are serviceable by any skilled piano tech and they don’t have any electronics to go wrong - just a thought wink

Re: Do Kawai still have the sticky key problem?
Togge #2868856 07/12/19 06:00 PM
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I realize the thread is about Kawais, but I've had 3 Yamaha P series pianos and two had sticky keys (or some kind of key problem) after some number of years. I don't know if Kawais are similar, but my Yamaha was very easy to fix. I would be unhappy if this happened right out of the box, but doesn't seem that unusual after a few years of use. If you're not able to fix it yourself the repair cost is an obstacle given the value of an older digital, and it is difficult to find skilled repair people for anything.


Yamaha P90, Kawai GL-10
Re: Do Kawai still have the sticky key problem?
Togge #2868859 07/12/19 06:13 PM
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Mark, what was the fix for your sticky keys?

Re: Do Kawai still have the sticky key problem?
MacMacMac #2868877 07/12/19 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Mark, what was the fix for your sticky keys?

I had two P90s, it's been awhile but here is my best recollection. One had a problem with the small spring that is under the key and is captured by a small raised ring of plastic molded into the base. Somehow the edge of the spring had gotten itself out of position in that little raised ring, and was still pushing up on the key but was pushing slightly sideways so it made the key bind up on the pivot point. So the key kind of worked but did not move properly.
The other one had a sticky key and I had to lubricate something but can't remember clearly what it was. I think the key snapped over a piece of plastic that acted as the pivot point for the key. I had some teflon lubricant that I used on my bicycle chain that I used on it. I'm pretty sure I posted either photos or a video of taking one of them apart here on this forum, but I can't find anything so I must be imagining it. I know I took photos, they're probably lost on some defunct photo sharing server.


Yamaha P90, Kawai GL-10
Re: Do Kawai still have the sticky key problem?
Morten Olsson #2868905 07/13/19 03:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
and keep the tone somewhat sober. wink

Wait--are you saying then, that 3Mac should be banned? Not sure I agree with that...might not agree with everything he says but he's one of the most helpful members of the board. Regardless of his jokes.

Re: Do Kawai still have the sticky key problem?
Togge #2868958 07/13/19 10:57 AM
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Here's a post where I talk about the issues with the top.

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...ca67-is-sagging-tee-hee.html#Post2842478

Re: Do Kawai still have the sticky key problem?
Togge #2877823 08/08/19 06:58 PM
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Well it's dismaying to find out that Kawai has a known sticky key problem! I got 20 years of mostly maintenance free use out of a Technics PX103, and when it finally started wearing out and I replaced it with a Kawai CA67 (in April 2015) I thought I was good for another 20.

But a little over a year ago I noticed that when I first sat down to play, the C# above middle C (and, interestingly, the C#s above and below it) would resist being depressed. I could loosen them up by playing them repeatedly, but they continued to be heavier than the other keys, enough to throw me off. The problem has been getting worse, and I recently noticed it happening with a new key. When I press the problem keys I can sometimes hear a bit of a tick or crunch, like something is stuck in there. My 5 year warranty good until next April (I hope!), but I'd like to ask a couple of questions here:

1) The dealer has closed his store in Manhattan, but he still has a location in another state. Should I still try to go through him, or should I go to Kawai directly. (I assume this is possible, because sometimes dealers go out of business entirely. But who would I contact?)

2) Do I need to present some proof that there is a problem, or will Kawai send a technician out on my word alone?

3) Once it's fixed, how often should I expect the problem to recur?

4) If it does reoccur and I'm out of warranty, is this something I could fix myself. (When I first got the CA67 it had a stuck key. Kawai sent a technician who was very competent, but he took the entire keyboard apart and there were parts all over my living room, and even though I am reasonable ept it didn't strike me as something I wanted to try myself).

5) Is the problem likely to have anything to do with wood keys vs plastic? I was willing to pay extra for the CA67 because I thought that if the additional sum was going to be amortized over many years then why not the best. But in all honesty I'm not a good enough pianist to require the very best, and reliability is more important to me.

6) For various reasons -- including focusing on another instrument -- I haven't played my CA67 as much as I expected to. Is underuse likely to be a contributing factor in this? (I keep the fallboard down when I'm not playing, and I've never spilled anything on it).

Many thanks in advance for any thoughts or advice anyone might have!

Last edited by JEB NYC; 08/08/19 07:01 PM.
Re: Do Kawai still have the sticky key problem?
Togge #2877830 08/08/19 07:18 PM
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I would check with Kawai to see what they say about this …

https://kawaius.com/

They will be the source of your most accurate information.


Don

Casio PX-S1000, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used), Focus Rite Scarlett 2i2 Audio Interface, Yamaha MG06 Mixer
Re: Do Kawai still have the sticky key problem?
JEB NYC #2877854 08/08/19 09:08 PM
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Hello JEB NYC,

I'm sorry to read that you are experiencing some problems with the keys on your CA67.

As Don notes, it's probably best to give Kawai America a call - I'm confident the folks there will look after you, and answer your questions.

Kind regards,
James
x


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Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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Re: Do Kawai still have the sticky key problem?
Romar #2877867 08/08/19 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Romar
Hey guys,

Yeah I ment open the box. Bad choice of wording there from my part crazy

But yeah, opening the box and inspecting the keys shouldnt be an issue, should it? And if theres something askew or not to my liking (however much the salesman might disagree), I've saved myself the effort of having to re-box the piano and bring it back in. Also, if the salesman has more than one in stock I might be able to keep looking until I find one to my liking.

Also, as i type this out I realize how ridiculous i sound, but this is money I really can't afford to waste (I'm upgrading from a $700 YDP 141, so I'm WAY out of my previous price range)


The sticky key problem is not something that can be tested immediately! If this happens right out of the box most of the stores in North America will consider it as a defective item and you'll either get your money back or you can ask for an exchange.

Now if you play it for a while and then it starts to fail it's a different scenario.

As far as I can tell you, KAWAI has very good customer service. I have been treated very well and although I initially had a not positive experience I was treated well and my case was taken care of at its best.

You will not regret buying a KAWAI as far as I can tell.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: Do Kawai still have the sticky key problem?
Togge #2878104 08/09/19 02:27 PM
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Just a quick note on fixing sticky keys by yourself. Since CA-97 and CA-98 both Grand Feel II, we are out of luck here as nothing is changed in the mechanism.

Last edited by midenok; 08/09/19 02:29 PM.
Re: Do Kawai still have the sticky key problem?
Togge #2885912 09/01/19 03:37 PM
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I have now fixed the problem myself.
I got the teflon sheets I ordered but I also tested with felt.
I decided to go with felt. I removed the sticky part and the thin teflon sheet on all keys and repleced it with felt.
It works well now. However I can't advice anyone to do the same since I can't know if this will keep up with time. Others have obviously choosen 0.3mm thick teflon in their repairs.

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