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Re: Just bought a CLP 645 polished ebony for 240€
JoeT #2868610 07/12/19 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
It feels stiff and precise in a way that just doesn’t feel good to me. Just went back and forth between the 645 and the ES8 for half an hour or so and there really is no contest for me.

BTW: It took me a few weeks to get used to the NWX action. But when I sit down at a Steinway grand, I feel right at home. In fact any acoustic piano I came along since I got my P-515 didn't provide much of a challenge anymore, unlike before.

Obviously the Kawai digital action I used for almost five years feels completely off now... It's all highly subjective.


In my MP11se thread, this is why I have not discounted the P515 as a choice. What was a revelation to me was playing a Yamaha concert grand acoustic. The action at first felt awkward and stiff I think describes it but after about only 10 minutes or so I realised I had better dynamic control. Simply going on an action that feels good is not the right approach. What action once you start to get used to it gives you more dynamic control and that you can regulate is what you should get. I quite like the feel of my Casio action except near the fallboard because the pivot point is too short, but I struggle with getting dynamics right. It is too light with little resistance to creating high velocities.

So what feels nice is not necessarily helpful for you producing the results you want. So when I finally do take a day off work and spend it in a showroom trying everything I am going to have this in mind.

Last edited by KevinM; 07/12/19 05:05 AM.
Re: Just bought a CLP 645 polished ebony for 240€
Morten Olsson #2868615 07/12/19 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
Came up for sale locally this morning - initially thought there was a mistake regarding the price but it turned out everything is kosher - not a scratch on it, everything working, receipt and everything - for 240€ :-)
It is currently sitting in the back of my car and I'm looking forward to going home tonight and giving it a try.
What I really want is an acoustic so will probably end up selling it at a nice profit and putting that towards a used K200 or something along those lines.


Is there any ne more.left? laugh

Re: Just bought a CLP 645 polished ebony for 240€
MrKaramba #2868617 07/12/19 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by MrKaramba
Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
Came up for sale locally this morning - initially thought there was a mistake regarding the price but it turned out everything is kosher - not a scratch on it, everything working, receipt and everything - for 240€ :-)
It is currently sitting in the back of my car and I'm looking forward to going home tonight and giving it a try.
What I really want is an acoustic so will probably end up selling it at a nice profit and putting that towards a used K200 or something along those lines.


Is there any ne more.left? laugh


Well I have one up for sale but not quite at 240€ :-)

Re: Just bought a CLP 645 polished ebony for 240€
KevinM #2868619 07/12/19 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by KevinM
Originally Posted by JoeT
Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
It feels stiff and precise in a way that just doesn’t feel good to me. Just went back and forth between the 645 and the ES8 for half an hour or so and there really is no contest for me.

BTW: It took me a few weeks to get used to the NWX action. But when I sit down at a Steinway grand, I feel right at home. In fact any acoustic piano I came along since I got my P-515 didn't provide much of a challenge anymore, unlike before.

Obviously the Kawai digital action I used for almost five years feels completely off now... It's all highly subjective.


In my MP11se thread, this is why I have not discounted the P515 as a choice. What was a revelation to me was playing a Yamaha concert grand acoustic. The action at first felt awkward and stiff I think describes it but after about only 10 minutes or so I realised I had better dynamic control. Simply going on an action that feels good is not the right approach. What action once you start to get used to it gives you more dynamic control and that you can regulate is what you should get. I quite like the feel of my Casio action except near the fallboard because the pivot point is too short, but I struggle with getting dynamics right. It is too light with little resistance to creating high velocities.

So what feels nice is not necessarily helpful for you producing the results you want. So when I finally do take a day off work and spend it in a showroom trying everything I am going to have this in mind.


To my hands the NWX action is harder to control because of what feels like an unnatural stiffness in the initial movement of the keys - it throws me off when trying to play very lightly. The K300 acoustic I had did not have anything like this - the action was perfectly smooth if not as easily controllable as the ES-8. I have no experience with grand pianos - my acoustic experience is limited to the K300.
The VPC-1 I had briefly had a wonderful action as well with no weird initial stiffness and a nice loose feel to it - sadly the surrounding tech proved too much of distraction for me.

Re: Just bought a CLP 645 polished ebony for 240€
KevinM #2868623 07/12/19 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by KevinM

In my MP11se thread, this is why I have not discounted the P515 as a choice. What was a revelation to me was playing a Yamaha concert grand acoustic. The action at first felt awkward and stiff I think describes it but after about only 10 minutes or so I realised I had better dynamic control. Simply going on an action that feels good is not the right approach.

The pretty old AHA-IV-F plastic action of my Kawai digital is not bad at all, features a great pivot length and is super easy and smooth to play. But every time I got to test my abilities on an acoustic upright, I got thrown off by the tactile "noise" from the mechanical piano action.

This changed after I successfully struggled through the "heavy" P-515 NWX action instead of returning on the first day - my playing took a quite a hit at first, but I decided to keep it for the great CFX sound.

Since then standard upright actions became a no-brainer for me. When I sat down at that semi-concert grand I struggled about three minutes with the really pronounced double-escapement, before I managed to ignore it and focus on my actual playing. Regarding dynamics I was surprised how well my voicing worked, getting it exactly where I wanted it to be on the first try. It wasn't too long ago, when I still got random way too loud or too silent notes out of an unfamiliar instrument. This doesn't happen anymore.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: Just bought a CLP 645 polished ebony for 240€
Morten Olsson #2868624 07/12/19 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Morten Olsson

To my hands the NWX action is harder to control because of what feels like an unnatural stiffness in the initial movement of the keys - it throws me off when trying to play very lightly.

It is harder to control, no doubt about that. But it turned out being very beneficial for my technique.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: Just bought a CLP 645 polished ebony for 240€
JoeT #2868630 07/12/19 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeT
It took me a few weeks to get used to the NWX action. But when I sit down at a Steinway grand, I feel right at home.


Well, after seeing all these "home is where the heart is" signs in people's houses, im not sure if it's really fair to give your p515 all the credit. smile


I guess some digital actions feel better, and others are harder to play, and whether that's a good or a bad thing depends on the person and his/her goals. It's nice to have an action that's easy to play, personally i would prefer an action that trains me as well as possible to play an acoustic piano, so i won't go for the "easiest" action. I do read good things here about the folded Yamaha actions in this regard, but still i think my cp33 action feels absolutely nothing like my u3 action. Then again, it is an older GH action without escapement, but aside from the escapement i don't believe Yamaha changed that action too much in the newer digitals.

Re: Just bought a CLP 645 polished ebony for 240€
Morten Olsson #2868635 07/12/19 07:01 AM
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I don't want an action that matches some mythical acoustic action. I want an action that allows me to learn to be in control. I'm still a long way from experienced and a lot of my regulation issues are due to my inexperience.

I'm coming to the conclusion though that my Casio is holding me back when it comes to playing with control. The experience with the concert grand where it almost felt like the piano was just producing the results I wanted, I could stop thinking about what my fingers were doing, instead focus on the music but that was only after my initial reaction to I don't like how this feels.

In my search for an action it is that which is what I want. Not an action that just initially feels nice.

Re: Just bought a CLP 645 polished ebony for 240€
U3piano #2868658 07/12/19 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by U3piano
Originally Posted by JoeT
It took me a few weeks to get used to the NWX action. But when I sit down at a Steinway grand, I feel right at home.


Well, after seeing all these "home is where the heart is" signs in people's houses, im not sure if it's really fair to give your p515 all the credit. smile

I didn't have anything else to practice on. And I knew how much I struggled with the "real thing" in the past.

Quote
I guess some digital actions feel better, and others are harder to play, and whether that's a good or a bad thing depends on the person and his/her goals.

One of my goals is playing classical piano music on suitable instruments. Others get an MP7/11 and go gigging with their band.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: Just bought a CLP 645 polished ebony for 240€
Morten Olsson #2874812 08/01/19 08:40 AM
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Ah - my plan is coming to fruition. The 645 is being picked up Saturday and a lovely (old) Yamaha U1 is being delivered in 2 weeks :-)

Re: Just bought a CLP 645 polished ebony for 240€
Morten Olsson #2874814 08/01/19 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
Ah - my plan is coming to fruition. The 645 is being picked up Saturday and a lovely (old) Yamaha U1 is being delivered in 2 weeks :-)


Nice! What year was it made? Right now, I’m waiting on the delivery of a U1 that I was told was made in 1975. It has been refurbished. I’m just renting it for a year to see if I like having an acoustic piano with the silent feature.


Yamaha U1 Silent Piano
Re: Just bought a CLP 645 polished ebony for 240€
Morten Olsson #2874815 08/01/19 08:50 AM
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"Mine" is from 1973.

Re: Just bought a CLP 645 polished ebony for 240€
Morten Olsson #2874818 08/01/19 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
"Mine" is from 1973.


How did you come to decide on this U1? My teacher picked this one out at the rental place from a few other silent pianos.


Yamaha U1 Silent Piano
Re: Just bought a CLP 645 polished ebony for 240€
Morten Olsson #2874829 08/01/19 09:47 AM
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It came up used at a good price and I really liked it when I went and tried it and that was it.

Re: Just bought a CLP 645 polished ebony for 240€
Morten Olsson #2874836 08/01/19 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
Ah - my plan is coming to fruition. The 645 is being picked up Saturday and a lovely (old) Yamaha U1 is being delivered in 2 weeks :-)

What did you end up selling the 645 for?


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Re: Just bought a CLP 645 polished ebony for 240€
Morten Olsson #2874842 08/01/19 10:21 AM
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Just enough that it’s paying for the U1 and a tuning smile

Re: Just bought a CLP 645 polished ebony for 240€
Morten Olsson #2880138 08/16/19 08:38 AM
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U1 just arrived - it is wonderful - just a completely different experience compared to the digitals I've played.
Still have the ES8 for silent practice but will probably give it up when the lease expires.
Pics of the new (quite old - but new to me) U1: http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...-acoustic-piano-is-here.html#Post2880130

Re: Just bought a CLP 645 polished ebony for 240€
Morten Olsson #2880206 08/16/19 10:50 AM
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what? why? and how?

I mean if i see a DP listed at that price i would belive its a mistake, you were still lucky nobody else noticed it before and snatch it from your hands. Did the seller knew the real price or he was just clueless?. Im amazed the owner of an instrument doesnt now its value, unless it was gifted or something.

Still, lucky you, i had luck too but not as much as your case, with a CN37 with retail price of ~$2860, and bought with less than a year of use at ~$1570, ended up having some issues and was sent to repair at one point, but still was a good price, so i sold it for $150 extra, so you can think of it, as i rented it for 4 months for -$100 wich is still a profit.


My piano history in about 15 months: Artesia PA88w -> Yamaha P45 -> Kawai CN 24 -> Kawai CN 37 -> Kawai CA 78
Done with: Clair de Lune - Debussy, Waltz Op. 64 no. 2 - Chopin. Looking for a new piece, kind of learning The Mandalorian theme, and practicing with Etude Op.10 no.1 - Chopin.
Re: Just bought a CLP 645 polished ebony for 240€
Morten Olsson #2880229 08/16/19 11:30 AM
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Oh he knew - he just didn’t care - or he had something to prove to someone.
It has gone on to someone who will appreciate it and I finally have what I’ve wanted ever since sending back my rented Kawai acoustic.

Re: Just bought a CLP 645 polished ebony for 240€
Morten Olsson #2880422 08/16/19 08:27 PM
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Guy arguing with GF for some time:
GF: sell that piano and you are going to give me the money, is that clear?
Guy: yeah yeah, sure, i will arrange that.
.....
Guy: here are your earnings, 200€
GF: what?


My piano history in about 15 months: Artesia PA88w -> Yamaha P45 -> Kawai CN 24 -> Kawai CN 37 -> Kawai CA 78
Done with: Clair de Lune - Debussy, Waltz Op. 64 no. 2 - Chopin. Looking for a new piece, kind of learning The Mandalorian theme, and practicing with Etude Op.10 no.1 - Chopin.
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