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Where is this muisical quote from? #2867968
07/10/19 12:05 PM
07/10/19 12:05 PM
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Sir Loin Offline OP
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Listening to a modern composition which is quoting a relatively well-known theme that I can't remember:

[Linked Image]

(Not sure if they kept the exact key.)

Faintly remember maybe some broken chords lying under the theme as well. Anyone recall where this is from?

For anyone curious, the piece I'm coming from is Ryuichi Sakamoto's Parolibre, which also contains two obvious quotes from Chopin Op. 28


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Re: Where is this muisical quote from? [Re: Sir Loin] #2867978
07/10/19 12:37 PM
07/10/19 12:37 PM
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Carey Offline
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Listening to the video, the last two notes of the quote should be B flat - A, not A - F.

The fragment sounds very familiar - possibly from a Mozart opera aria. I'm sure I'll be thinking about it all day. ha


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Re: Where is this muisical quote from? [Re: Sir Loin] #2868104
07/10/19 06:58 PM
07/10/19 06:58 PM
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scriabinfanatic Offline
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Well if you prolong the length of the first note to three beats and the second note to two beats, the melody you notated is exactly this (and even in the same key):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEtAFQIIELk

I don't hear it in the YouTube video you posted though.

Last edited by scriabinfanatic; 07/10/19 06:58 PM.
Re: Where is this muisical quote from? [Re: Carey] #2868116
07/10/19 07:36 PM
07/10/19 07:36 PM
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Carey Offline
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Originally Posted by Carey
Listening to the video, the last two notes of the quote should be B flat - A, not A - F.

The fragment sounds very familiar - possibly from a Mozart opera aria. I'm sure I'll be thinking about it all day. ha
Well, after thinking about it, I realized the fragment reminded me of the opening theme from the Andante movement of Mozart's Piano Concerto K467...….at least the last four notes (G - C - B flat - A). But I'm sure the OP has something else in mind.

Anyway - listen to the phrase starting at 1:04

.https://youtu.be/5Y4Fkxg7WcA


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Re: Where is this muisical quote from? [Re: scriabinfanatic] #2868155
07/10/19 09:55 PM
07/10/19 09:55 PM
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Sir Loin Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Carey
Listening to the video, the last two notes of the quote should be B flat - A, not A - F.

The fragment sounds very familiar - possibly from a Mozart opera aria. I'm sure I'll be thinking about it all day. ha



I should have mentioned the notes I wrote down are the theme I’m asking for, from memory. Sakamoto diverted from the quoted theme at the last two notes in order to transition back to his own material. It should also be mentioned Sakamoto underlies the theme with broken chords, just like in the original theme I’m trying to find.

Originally Posted by scriabinfanatic
Well if you prolong the length of the first note to three beats and the second note to two beats, the melody you notated is exactly this (and even in the same key):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEtAFQIIELk

I don't hear it in the YouTube video you posted though.


It’s at 1:04 in the video. This is pretty much there, but what I’m thinking of was definitely by solo piano and just straight quarter notes! But this definitely narrows things down - what I’m thinking of was perhaps a Mozart work for solo piano where he used the same theme as in this sonata.

Re: Where is this muisical quote from? [Re: Sir Loin] #2868160
07/10/19 10:22 PM
07/10/19 10:22 PM
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Sir Loin Offline OP
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Or maybe it’s from a piece of chamber music with piano, may or may not be Mozart. This’ll be bothering me for a while lol

Re: Where is this muisical quote from? [Re: Sir Loin] #2868175
07/10/19 11:42 PM
07/10/19 11:42 PM
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It sounds like Schumann to me, but I am not sure what piece of his.


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Re: Where is this muisical quote from? [Re: Sir Loin] #2868182
07/11/19 12:12 AM
07/11/19 12:12 AM
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"Dictionary of Musical Themes" to the rescue?

I looked up that melody -- transposed to C major, which is what you have to do to look up themes -- and there's one and only one match (it's an exact match) -- and, as luck would have it, it's in the same key as what you wrote, F major.

The notes are exactly the same; the rhythm is a little different.

It's a piece I never heard of, by Mozart, although the theme rings a bell, maybe because of the piece Carey mentioned, which indeed has a similar theme.

That "dictionary" calls the piece Sonata for Organ and Strings, K. 745.
But, that book is from many years ago, and it seems the piece is now known mainly as something else, at least mainly, and in fact I find no indication of any "K. 745" of Mozart.

Here it is on youtube, called - Church Sonata No. 5 in F major, just for strings (as far as I hear; I don't hear any organ), with two different K numbers: "KV 145 (124b)."



EXCEPT.....

Here's a version that says it includes organ, although really I can't much tell it from the other one. I can't tell it isn't the same.
(oh OK, I can hear it's not the same performance, but can't tell it's a different version)


Re: Where is this muisical quote from? [Re: Sir Loin] #2868186
07/11/19 12:36 AM
07/11/19 12:36 AM
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Sir Loin Offline OP
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Mark_C, thank you very much for the response, but it pains me to say... that is not it! cry

The piece I’m looking for has this theme played by solo piano, with broken chords kind of like in 1:04 in the video I posted in the OP. Let us not give up, the payoff will surely be worth it! I have a hunch the offending piece might be from the classical period.

Re: Where is this muisical quote from? [Re: Sir Loin] #2868193
07/11/19 12:57 AM
07/11/19 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Sir Loin
....it pains me to say... that is not it! cry

The piece I’m looking for has this theme played by solo piano, with broken chords kind of like in 1:04 in the video I posted in the OP....

In that case, I think I'm with BDB:

Originally Posted by BDB
It sounds like Schumann to me....


This probably isn't what you mean, although it could be -- anyway it has the 'flavor,' and it even happens to be in F major:
last movement of Fantasiestücke ("Ende vom Lied," like, the passage at 0:16)


Re: Where is this muisical quote from? [Re: Sir Loin] #2868355
07/11/19 11:23 AM
07/11/19 11:23 AM
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SiFi Offline
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How about this, from Schumann's Arabesque (transposed into C; listen to the answering phrase, starting at 0:08):



SRF
Re: Where is this muisical quote from? [Re: SiFi] #2868357
07/11/19 11:28 AM
07/11/19 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by SiFi
How about this, from Schumann's Arabesque (transposed into C; listen to the answering phrase, starting at 0:08):


Nice!! (That could be it too.)

Of course the key is different, and the first 6 notes get struck twice, but besides that, the notes are exactly the same except that there's no final tonic note.

Re: Where is this muisical quote from? [Re: Mark_C] #2868365
07/11/19 11:49 AM
07/11/19 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
. . . the notes are exactly the same except that there's no final tonic note.

Actually the second time a C is sounded under the held G, but you're right in that there's never an E - C ending to the phrase.


SRF
Re: Where is this muisical quote from? [Re: SiFi] #2868401
07/11/19 01:54 PM
07/11/19 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by SiFi
Actually the second time a C is sounded under the held G

I wonder if you have some unusual edition!

I've played the piece and never noticed anything like that.
So, I went to imslp, with anticipated horror that I'd see a thing that I never noticed ha ....and was glad to see that the edition I saw on there doesn't have what you're saying.

I wonder also if maybe I'm not understanding what you mean....

Re: Where is this muisical quote from? [Re: Sir Loin] #2868408
07/11/19 02:11 PM
07/11/19 02:11 PM
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I know this is in the wrong mode, but your description of broken chords, and the shape of the phrase, reminded me of Franck's Prelude, Chorale & Fugue.



The section I'm thinking of is at 8:45 in the video.

I know it's probably the Schumann, but it's a good excuse to post this magical piece...

Last edited by johnstaf; 07/11/19 02:17 PM.
Re: Where is this muisical quote from? [Re: Mark_C] #2868449
07/11/19 04:49 PM
07/11/19 04:49 PM
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Carey Offline
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by SiFi
How about this, from Schumann's Arabesque (transposed into C; listen to the answering phrase, starting at 0:08):


Nice!! (That could be it too.)

Of course the key is different, and the first 6 notes get struck twice, but besides that, the notes are exactly the same except that there's no final tonic note.
Good catch !! I've been playing the Arabesque for the past year myself, and somehow failed to make the connection. Bravo !!


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Re: Where is this muisical quote from? [Re: Carey] #2868459
07/11/19 05:03 PM
07/11/19 05:03 PM
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I'm guessing that Arabesque is it.

Re: Where is this muisical quote from? [Re: Mark_C] #2868491
07/11/19 07:18 PM
07/11/19 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by SiFi
Actually the second time a C is sounded under the held G

I wonder if you have some unusual edition!

I've played the piece and never noticed anything like that.
So, I went to imslp, with anticipated horror that I'd see a thing that I never noticed ha ....and was glad to see that the edition I saw on there doesn't have what you're saying.

I wonder also if maybe I'm not understanding what you mean....

Right before the first double bar. G in the top part, held over from the previous bar. Middle C in the "alto" voice.


SRF
Re: Where is this muisical quote from? [Re: SiFi] #2868507
07/11/19 08:07 PM
07/11/19 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by SiFi
Right before the first double bar. G in the top part, held over from the previous bar. Middle C in the "alto" voice.

Oh OK -- sure!!!

I was only talking about the first appearance of this melody.

(Now I understand what you meant by "the second time." Before I didn't get that at all.)

Re: Where is this muisical quote from? [Re: Mark_C] #2868550
07/11/19 11:33 PM
07/11/19 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by SiFi
Right before the first double bar. G in the top part, held over from the previous bar. Middle C in the "alto" voice.

Oh OK -- sure!!!

I was only talking about the first appearance of this melody.

(Now I understand what you meant by "the second time." Before I didn't get that at all.)

Sorry for the confusion my friend.


SRF
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