Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Suggestions? - Removing Victorian Plate

Have a "project" piano. It's a Ludwig Victorian Upright with sides that curve in. Going to pull the plate and replace the pinblock, among other things. Current problem is that on the bass end the curving sides interfere with removing the plate bolts. My thought is to carefully cut the portion of the side that is in the way and "artfully" re-attach it later.

Anybody been through this? Options?

Find a different "project" piano? They probably thought no one would ever want to remove the plate!

Sam

Have you got a picture of the piano? I rebuilt a Bösendorfer 200 c.1907 a couple of years ago, and needed to carve away about an inch of casework on each side to extract the frame. Not fun!

Tell that to my wife and daughter. It was my mother-in-law's...

The case was undoubtedly glued to the back after it was strung, which means it needs to be unglued or cut off to access the back.

No picture right now. I think if I chiseled out enough to remove the bolts/screws, I would go through the case, but I'll check. Once the bolts/screws are out, there should be enough clearance to take it out through the top of the piano, laying on it's back of course.

I'd thought of that. Ever do so yourself?

No. It is not worth my time or trouble. But if I were to do it, I would probably use a big circular saw and expect to fill the gap when it came time to replace the case.

Jeff,

Since this is a Victorian upright, does it have a full plate?

If it doesn't, I wonder if removing the plate is really necessary to replace the pinblock.

Would restoring your mother-in-law's washing machine or car or vacuum cleaner not be a better project?

Full plate.

Uh, doubt it would be any easier if you had seen them, and items associated with drudgery don't have the same appeal. But I'll mention YOU suggested it. Besides, I've already received a set of custom Arledge strings for this. I'm really looking forward to it.

Haha, OK!

I've gotten terribly cynical over the years, about professions of piano sentiment, at least in my part of the world.

People say how much they love great-granny's piano, but they've never loved it enough to have it tuned or maintained in the last 30 years. And you would be surprised at the celerity and finality with which the wallet snaps shut right in front of great-granny's 'much-loved' piano, when money is mentioned.....

Probably too difficult to locate the plate screw hole from the opposite side.
Remove the plate screw by backing it out as far as possible then take a hacksaw to it.
Drill through from the back side, open up the hole and use a bolt and eliminate the plate screw.
Or it may be possible to use a shorter plate screw with the same thread size.

Hmmm, that has some possibilities! There's the heavy bolt on top and then there are a couple of smaller screws. Not a big deal to back them out a ways, saw some off, rinse and repeat. Hey, maybe not drill clean through for carriage bolts but install hanger bolts after the plate and pinblock are out, at least for the screws. You know the ones with wood threads on one end and machine threads on the other. Could even make some myself if need be with the right size lag bolt and a die. Hmmm....

Thanks Gene!

Other suggestions? I mean ones that don't include a convenient accident with a road flare.

Attach two GOOD hinges to the back top and bottom, both sides. One hinge plate on back, and other hinge plate on edge of the sides. This is your reference for gluing the sides back on afterward in exactly the same place.

Now remove the hinge pins and with expanding clamps and a sledge hammer, remove the sides.

Remove your plate and do whatcha gotta do. Then re-attach the sides using your reference guides.

Piece of cake.

Pwg

You can do this. It'll be a whole lot of fun. Pay close attention to those dreams that wake you up around three AM. {:O)

Well, we already know that this project is established as being "Worth my time and trouble," since it was his mother-in-law's piano and both wife and daughter want it done, plus the strings are on hand.

You may find that you can actually just wedge-off the sides. The saw kerf idea is a good one; I have done it before.

The hinge idea is also good as an indexing method. However, a simpler index is to select a size of framing nail, 16d, then drill four holes, two at each end top and bottom that will go thru the case ends. They can act as relocation dowels at reassembly time. (It is amazingly easy to disguise end grain of a dowel glued into these holes later, or you can patch the holes with putty of your choice.)

Back to the wedge idea:
It is possible to find a small crack and start with multiple tiny wedges, side by side and begin to open that existing crack. if that is not available, a short saw kerf can create a starting point. It is worth a try to see if the ends' glue joints will give. If they won't, you will have lost little time or effort, so you can proceed with the saw idea.

The saw idea, already mentioned:
Using a circular saw, do repeated, guided shallow cuts. The posts will likely be the harder wood, but if you cut into them, rather than the case end material, you will preserve the integrity of the 5-ply lumber core construction typical of end panels on most pianos. Be sure to clamp or screw on a guide board so that you can repeatedly, cleanly cut in the same kerf, deepening the kerf on each pass until you max out the saw.

Before you try to pop off the ends, drill for the nails by drilling completely through the ends and at least an inch into the posts in the four locations already mentioned. You don't need to insert the nails, but do need to make sure that they provide a just-snug diameter for the nails at reassembly time. If you have a 10" circular saw, that will be plenty deep to pop off the ends with wedges in the kerfs.

The deeper the kerfs, the less tear out you will have. You will have the choice of just de-splintering as necessary or really doing clean up and reconstruction when you glue up. Of course, as already mentioned in another reply, you will need to replace the wood sawn away by the saw blade (the kerf).

P.S. Plan your "Glue 'em Back On Plan" ahead of time.

By the way,

Peter Grey's idea is by far the fastest.

If you are a gambler and prefer faster, two long clamps rigged to push out with the piano on a cradle should make quick work of it. You could be pleased to have cleanly popped ends lying on the padding you thoughtfully provided on which the ends will fall. On the other hand you could have much splintering.

It's a mystery, just waiting to unfold, but as Steve said, "It will be fun!"

And not one of us guys has to do any of the work - the best part!

Also, heat directed at that joint between case and back can have a very beneficial effect on weakening the glue. And yes, it must be on a tilter (or laying on the floor) when removing the sides. Otherwise you know what will happen.

Pwg