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Amazing piano climaxes from neglected composers (Video) #2866255
07/05/19 10:13 AM
07/05/19 10:13 AM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1
M
MachoGrande Offline OP
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MachoGrande  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 1
A nice video on some amazing virtuoso climaxes from neglected composers such as Alkan, Medtner, Godowsky, etc.



Do you know any more? What are your favorite piano climaxes in general?

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Re: Amazing piano climaxes from neglected composers (Video) [Re: MachoGrande] #2866384
07/05/19 06:55 PM
07/05/19 06:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 68
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rmns2bseen Offline
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rmns2bseen  Offline
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Posts: 68
Appreciate the video, but if I may put my amateur critic's hat on I'd say that most of these passages show why most of the composers represented are "neglected". Too much of it sounded like thematically empty, noisy, but ultimately forgettable flash (with the exception of the Franck work, which is great in total). It's too much of the bad sort of Liszt influence without enough of the good Liszt influence -- just trying to "out-difficult" whoever else. Speaking of Liszt, I'd say the coda to Totentanz is pretty thrilling.

By the way I can't figure out if Medtner sounds like Rachmaninoff or the other way around.

Re: Amazing piano climaxes from neglected composers (Video) [Re: MachoGrande] #2866400
07/05/19 07:55 PM
07/05/19 07:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
Maryland, USA
scriabinfanatic Offline
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scriabinfanatic  Offline
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Maryland, USA
Totally disagree. And in Medtner's case, it's the complete opposite. Among the reasons his works got so little attention is that they tend to be relatively lacking in the kind of superficiality that makes for quick appeal. And the Medtner Sonata Tragica excerpt for example was far from "thematically empty." In fact, that excerpt is virtually bursting at the seams with thematic material. That excerpt comes from the end of the exposition of the sonata, and it contains many instances of the second theme of the individual sonata work and, additionally, brings in one of the themes from another work in the opus 39 group, concentrating on a motif taken from that theme (as is also done with part of the second theme). So you have multiple levels of themes going on from within and from without the work, and from within the themes themselves. There is a huge amount of craft going on there to be able to bring all that together into such an organic-sounding flow.

Re: Amazing piano climaxes from neglected composers (Video) [Re: MachoGrande] #2866413
07/05/19 08:47 PM
07/05/19 08:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 132
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PianoYos Offline
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PianoYos  Offline
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Originally Posted by scriabinfanatic
And in Medtner's case, it's the complete opposite. Among the reasons his works got so little attention is that they tend to be relatively lacking in the kind of superficiality that makes for quick appeal. And the Medtner Sonata Tragica excerpt for example was far from "thematically empty." In fact, that excerpt is virtually bursting at the seams with thematic material.

+1.

Also, Medtner's works remind me a lot more of Beethoven than do Rachmaninoff's, in terms of building upon small rhythmic/thematic motifs - especially in a work like this Sonata Tragica.

I've also never heard the interpretation in the video shared by the OP before - I'll have to check out more of Tozer's recordings.

P.S. The coda to Chopin's Heroic Polonaise might be my favorite climax.

Last edited by PianoYos; 07/05/19 08:53 PM.
Re: Amazing piano climaxes from neglected composers (Video) [Re: MachoGrande] #2866447
07/05/19 11:49 PM
07/05/19 11:49 PM
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Posts: 68
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rmns2bseen Offline
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rmns2bseen  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 68
To each his/her own. As a "piano geek", I'd say most of this is the sort of thing that appeals mainly to piano geeks. Excepting Franck's work, these don't give me any desire to find the scores and learn them. The Medtner excerpts in this video highlight more of a concern with pianistic fireworks and clich├ęs than with clear thematic development that could be followed by most non-pianists. And that goes for most of the rest. Not my cup of tea. Liszt had already been there. Scriabin though was quirky enough at least to keep it interesting.

Re: Amazing piano climaxes from neglected composers (Video) [Re: scriabinfanatic] #2866461
07/06/19 03:05 AM
07/06/19 03:05 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,387
Pacific Northwest, US.
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argerichfan Offline
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argerichfan  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,387
Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted by scriabinfanatic
Totally disagree. And in Medtner's case, it's the complete opposite. Among the reasons his works got so little attention is that they tend to be relatively lacking in the kind of superficiality that makes for quick appeal. And the Medtner Sonata Tragica excerpt for example was far from "thematically empty." In fact, that excerpt is virtually bursting at the seams with thematic material. That excerpt comes from the end of the exposition of the sonata, and it contains many instances of the second theme of the individual sonata work and, additionally, brings in one of the themes from another work in the opus 39 group, concentrating on a motif taken from that theme (as is also done with part of the second theme). So you have multiple levels of themes going on from within and from without the work, and from within the themes themselves. There is a huge amount of craft going on there to be able to bring all that together into such an organic-sounding flow.

This is wonderful. Your observations are brilliantly communicated, and perhaps this would encourage others to explore this relatively neglected music.

That said, Tozer's performance comes off as rather generalized and monotonous in its dynamics -we can see the score for ourselves- and I don't think he is making the best case for Medtner's music, merely marginalizing him as a Rachmaninov wannabe.



Last edited by argerichfan; 07/06/19 03:06 AM.

Jason
Re: Amazing piano climaxes from neglected composers (Video) [Re: MachoGrande] #2866714
07/06/19 06:54 PM
07/06/19 06:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 68
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rmns2bseen Offline
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rmns2bseen  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 68
Yeah, I have to apologize for being too flip in my criticism of these composers based solely on one video. I'm not experienced in the music of Medtner and Alkan so I really shouldn't condemn their entire bodies of work. But still I just don't feel the urge to try to tackle this music, although the technical demands demonstrated in the snippets in this video seem formidable.


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