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@EPW: Write a PM to Frank. I don't think he'll ever bother to read a thread title "forum withdrawal symptoms".

I looked at the User List page and compiled a list of subscriber/supporters.
This is tedious ... as there are 1843 pages, so I looked at just the first 500 pages.
I found that among the top 2500 most frequent posters ...
Bronze level . . . . . 4
Silver level. . . . . 18
Gold level. . . . . . 11
Platinum level . . . . 4
Unobtainium level. . . 1

Yes, mobile usage has been neglected a lot. Reading is OK now but posting is major pain in the a**. I abandon probably a third of my posts due to frustration and anger with the mobile experience and I use this forum more than 80% from my iPhone. Which I guess is beneficial since it limits my ability to spam too much

lol

Maybe this forum just needs a "Gordon Ramsey of internet design"; make it new, fresh, modern and appealing. The ads will roll in and soon, the owner will bathe in Benjamins...

Or just get a computer, with a nice big screen and a keyboard and a mouse.

Most of us do have those already, but a lot of our online activity trends towards mobile access where we can't really lug a desktop

I feel like this discussion had been had before!

This kind of thinking is actually the same as “why wouldn’t I ask people to pay me a subscription to post in my forum” I hope it won’t get interpreted as dismissive towards elderly people though. I respect my mom and dad despite their old fashioned views.

P.S. I bought a smartphone for my mom this January. She’s 71. She initially rejected the idea but is now so fascinated by it she rarely uses her desktop computer now

Granted that you can't lug a desktop around. I was thinking of a laptop.
Yes, a laptop is second-rate for screen, keyboard, and mouse. Still ... not too bad.

But for me ... thinking that I could deal with things online using a phone with 6" screen?
That's far beyond convenient no matter what is done for site optimization.
PW might be worse than most, as you suggest. But they're all unsuitable for me.

Not being able to surf on a phone is like not being able to walk across the Sahara.
I cannot do either, and I won't attempt either.

There might someday be a solution.
We've already seen the Microsoft goggles headset, and there are several other newer ones of that ilk on the market.
(I mean the augmented reality kind, not the sealed-in-a-room Oculus gaming kind.)

For now they're all quite expensive, with limited resolution and narrow field-of-view.
But I hope someday they'll be as good as a proper desktop with two (no, four!) large screen monitors!

Now ... what about keyboard and mouse?

As I re-read that last post ... I realize that I've taken this still farther off topic.

1700 members at $5 a month is $8500 a month.

While I dare say I’ve missed a ton of needed things, hence the price would be a lot more, a quick google for forum hosting sites, first one, their top tier is £200 a year.

https://www.a2hosting.com/web-hosting/compare

I can’t see it costing more than $500 a month to pay for the server/software usage. That would leave around $8000 a month. Presuming only one persons being paid, that’s a very nice earner, and if it was remotely possible to achieve this, all forums would have gone the subscription route years ago.

Personally I think a forum such as this needs to be run by volunteers who are in it for the love they have for pianos.

Sure if donations are enough that there’s spare cash at the end of the year, take a small payment for your time (or keep the money for those months where donations aren’t enough), but running it as a money making business simply will not work.

All that will happen is the forum will slowly die, as newcomers will see this forum as a way of someone making money, and will seek advice elsewhere.

While I won’t be subscribing, one thing I do know is that paying subs and still having only 1/2 of the screen visible, with both the left and right hand columns still having ads, will be a big no no for many people. Sure many of those that are currently here and love the community will probably be happy to sub and put up with the ads, but most new people won’t.

One question - are there 1700 members regularly posting here each month? I only really frequent the DP forums, but it seems we may have a couple dozen folks who post in the course of a month, maybe 100 who have one post in the last 30 days? How is it in other forums?



That's $6000/year. Frank's post mentions it costs him $10k/year in operational cost, so you're probably not far off (since other than just hosting fees, he probably has to contract with developers for regular maintenance, upgrades, etc.). I think the main question is, does the board have enough posting members (not just lurkers) to cover the costs and make it worth investing in the board to offset any lost traffic/participation from being subscription-only?

I can’t see it costing more than $500 a month to pay for the server/software usage. That would leave around $8000 a month. Presuming only one persons being paid, that’s a very nice earner, and if it was remotely possible to achieve this, all forums would have gone the subscription route years ago."

So you don't think the owner of this forum should make $72,000 a year? Before taxes? That is maybe, barely, a livable wage. Then why would he continue to do it?

Yes, Tom. There are many naysayers.

It won't work!
He has no right to expect an income from this!
Running it as a money making business simply will not work!

So sayeth those who have never run a business, but want to tell someone else how to do so!

But maybe the subscription model will serve to drive out the know-it-alls?

I studied this question a number of times, most recently in February. I found that 61% of registered users have NEVER posted, and 91% have posted no more than 10 times.The answer is no (sort of). A small number of people post frequently. But many post only rarely or not at all. The latter will surely remain non-subscribers.

So I wouldn't expect to find 1700 members to subscribe ...... even though it's only $3 per month, not $5.

There's one thing missing ... the piano supplies side of the business. That must generate some revenue, but we know not how significant that might be.

We are all looking at this from our perspective. Frank might be making a killing and wants to increase it. He must be having a ball reading all of this.

As for statistics about who might still be here if it goes subscription -

I have over 6K posts. I don't post as often as I once did, BUT I STILL DONATE. So there is at least some inaccuracy about guessing that those that don't post so often will be gone How much? Hard to say.

I'm a regular in the ABF, but, as evidenced by this post, I do check in to other forums. So - I'll suggest what I suggested in the ABF -

instead of discussing whether a subscription, or pledge, or whatever form might work - why not just donate? It's easy, there's a button at the bottom of the screen, and we could probably make this whole discussion irrelevant

You never know -

@jotur: When I suggested that people who post little would be less likely to subscribe ... I was thinking of you.

Here are the stats I did not reveal earlier:

MEMBER . . . . . .POSTS . . .LEVEL
BruceD. . . . . . 22,652 . . Gold
Rich Galassini. . 11,392 . . Platinum
jotur. . . . . . . 6,523 . . Gold
Tyrone Slothrop. . 5,085 . . Platinum
dogperson. . . . . 4,048 . . Silver
cmb13. . . . . . . 2,641 . . Silver
Stubbie. . . . . . 2,233 . . Gold
Beemer. . . . . . .2,211 . . Bronze
kpembrook. . . . . 2,029 . . Platinum
David Boyce. . . . 1,834 . . Gold
Rich D . . . . . . 1,498 . . Gold
Almaviva . . . . . 1,269 . . Bronze
Serge88. . . . . . . 990 . . Silver
Chrispy. . . . . . . 945 . . Gold
TomLC. . . . . . . . 779 . . Gold
That Guy . . . . . . 771 . . Silver
pwl. . . . . . . . . 584 . . Silver
OneWatt. . . . . . . 508 . . Bronze
MH1963 . . . . . . . 495 . . Silver
MarieJ . . . . . . . 420 . . Gold
piRround . . . . . . 385 . . Gold
Rosewood17 . . . . . 324 . . Silver
michaelvi. . . . . . 317 . . Silver
ElaineAllegro. . . . 298 . . Silver
MeganR . . . . . . . 279 . . Silver
dhull100 . . . . . . 234 . . Platinum
nancyde. . . . . . . 231 . . Silver
AnthonyPaulO . . . . 168 . . Unobtainium
AprilE . . . . . . . 165 . . Silver
Michael. . . . . . . 157 . . Silver
jshelton . . . . . . 144 . . Silver
pianosuzemn . . . . . 81 . . Silver
lvojnovic . . . . . . 52 . . Silver
Aspiring. . . . . . . 50 . . Silver
vibavi attigala . . . 48 . . Bronze
Bach48. . . . . . . . 42 . . Gold
peterd. . . . . . . . 38 . . Silver
swiss_boy . . . . . . 32 . . Gold

Could be there are more people, like me, who subscribed recently (June 2, Silver) but don't show up on the list yet.

That is true, TX-Bluebonnet, and some people who subscribe/donate don't choose to show the badge.

yes, I have >6K posts, but they're kinda front-loaded. I check in a lot these days, but I don't post much.

I know that making that list must have been time-consuming - but Sam S has >3k posts and he's at the gold level.

So I'm just not sure that it's entirely valid. Interesting list, tho, eh?

As much as I love this forum, and with all due respect to Frank, but forums are a free thing by definition and should remain a free thing. They are not a business. I think he will realize that when he introduces the subscription.