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Forum withdrawal symptoms #2720883
03/13/18 03:32 PM
03/13/18 03:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,513
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline OP
9000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,513
Raleigh, North Carolina
The forum was down for quite some time earlier today.

Oh, the pain! The withdrawals! frown

Thank goodness it's back up again. smile

(But it seems my Mac avatar has gone missing.)

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Re: Forum withdrawal symptoms [Re: MacMacMac] #2720904
03/13/18 05:01 PM
03/13/18 05:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 275
Chiltern Hills, England.
G
gwing Offline
Full Member
gwing  Offline
Full Member
G

Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 275
Chiltern Hills, England.
I think I only tried to log in a dozen or so times while it was down. Maybe two :-)

Re: Forum withdrawal symptoms [Re: MacMacMac] #2720910
03/13/18 05:33 PM
03/13/18 05:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,442
Boston, Massachusetts
M
Marko in Boston Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Marko in Boston  Offline
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M

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,442
Boston, Massachusetts
I was so frustrated and bored I actually practiced! grin


KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
Re: Forum withdrawal symptoms [Re: MacMacMac] #2720921
03/13/18 06:46 PM
03/13/18 06:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 317
Israel, Haifa
M
michaelvi Offline
Silver Subscriber
michaelvi  Offline
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Full Member
M

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 317
Israel, Haifa
Congratulations Frank with updated forum engine and/or new design elements smile!


Started 2016-01-29
Casio Privia PX-760 => Garritan CFX Lite, Ravenscroft 275 => Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 =>ATH-40mx, Sennheiser HD598, JBL LSR305
Re: Forum withdrawal symptoms [Re: Marko in Boston] #2720953
03/13/18 08:54 PM
03/13/18 08:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 415
LA CA
Rob Mullins Offline
Full Member
Rob Mullins  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 415
LA CA
That's hilarious!


Rob Mullins
www.planetmullins.com
Recording Artist and Jazz Piano Instructor
Re: Forum withdrawal symptoms [Re: MacMacMac] #2720955
03/13/18 08:57 PM
03/13/18 08:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,618
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Kawai James  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,618
Hamamatsu, Japan


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Forum withdrawal symptoms [Re: MacMacMac] #2721036
03/14/18 04:02 AM
03/14/18 04:02 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,467
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Doug M.  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,467
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
The forum was down for quite some time earlier today.

Oh, the pain! The withdrawals! frown

Thank goodness it's back up again. smile

(But it seems my Mac avatar has gone missing.)


You've put on the last suit you'll ever wear.
Now you're simply...M.

[Linked Image]


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Forum withdrawal symptoms [Re: MacMacMac] #2865498
07/03/19 11:04 AM
07/03/19 11:04 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,231
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,231
For those who haven't seen the notice about this, there are some changes coming...


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Forum withdrawal symptoms [Re: MacMacMac] #2865512
07/03/19 11:25 AM
07/03/19 11:25 AM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,603
G
Gombessa Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Gombessa  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
G

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,603
I was wondering when the news was going to hit the DP forum.

This change likely won't affect my own use of the forums, or other frequent posters'. But I'm afraid it's going to have a detrimental impact on new users. Who's going to shell out $$ to join a forum they haven't had a chance to develop a vested interest in? The random newbies who pop in with questions will all but disappear, and with them the "hook" of these new users becoming returning regulars. And I bet site activity will drop significantly too (fewer new members, not every regular will opt to pay). The pessimistic view is that this will be putting the site on life support and be detrimental to the long term viability of the board.

Personally, I think Frank should consider a 20-50 post threshold before participation payment is required. Or maybe have annual "pledge drives" events as opposed to a strict subscription model.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Forum withdrawal symptoms [Re: MacMacMac] #2865515
07/03/19 11:34 AM
07/03/19 11:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,238
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content
4000 Post Club Member
CyberGene  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,238
Sofia, Bulgaria
I'm kind of glad this will happen. And I don't intend on paying the subscription which I hope will prevent me from posting and ultimately lead to overcoming the withdrawal syndrome and find some other way of spending my time, such as... surprise, surprise... playing the piano! I think I waste a lot of time here and it's turning into a dependency already and I'm already stuck, I don't have a lot to say already, to help, or even to learn. I guess it would be better if I just took a rest and so that's a perfect opportunity smile

Last edited by CyberGene; 07/03/19 11:35 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Forum withdrawal symptoms [Re: MacMacMac] #2865518
07/03/19 11:42 AM
07/03/19 11:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,502
Barça
N
newer player Online content
1000 Post Club Member
newer player  Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
N

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,502
Barça
Agreed

Re: Forum withdrawal symptoms [Re: MacMacMac] #2865524
07/03/19 11:50 AM
07/03/19 11:50 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 608
The Sierras
D
David B Online content
500 Post Club Member
David B  Online Content
500 Post Club Member
D

Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 608
The Sierras
I think Frank is of traditional retirement age and if he's just looking for a boost in his financial subsidy before he dies, then subscriptions will probably help in the short-term. However, if he wants to keep PW going strong for the next generation, then I would imagine subscriptions will ensure that doesn't happen.

God Bless,
David



Last edited by David B; 07/03/19 11:54 AM.

Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-39 Completed
Re: Forum withdrawal symptoms [Re: MacMacMac] #2865548
07/03/19 12:32 PM
07/03/19 12:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,603
G
Gombessa Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Gombessa  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
G

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,603
Wow, you don't pull any punches, do you David? laugh


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Forum withdrawal symptoms [Re: MacMacMac] #2865551
07/03/19 12:36 PM
07/03/19 12:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,810
Suffolk, United Kingdom
E
EssBrace Offline
3000 Post Club Member
EssBrace  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
E

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,810
Suffolk, United Kingdom
I'm unimpressed by this change.

And it was a really terrible, very low-profile way of announcing it too. Sneaky one might almost say.

I've thought about it and frankly, I think PianoWorld should be paying me. When I think about the amount of time I've spent here in the past, passing on information about the pianos I've owned and my experience of a (depressingly) vast number of digital pianos in order to try and benefit other users of this website, I think PW owes me, not the other way around!

I will have to think long and hard about whether I will stick around. Now that I have a decent acoustic piano my interest in digitals has significantly declined anyway.

Will non-paying users still be able to 'private message' one another I wonder?


Roland RD-1000 | Broadwood Grand Piano
Re: Forum withdrawal symptoms [Re: MacMacMac] #2865561
07/03/19 12:48 PM
07/03/19 12:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,828
Northern England.
peterws Offline
7000 Post Club Member
peterws  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,828
Northern England.
Hmmm . . .I've been on this forum some time; it's been a lot of fun and thanks to you lot, cost me a lot o' cash. Having said that, I don't recall taking anyone's advice (who'd actually recommend either the DGX600 series, or the FP50? But it got me into playing some serious music (ABF) which I'd ha never touched on otherwise.
Thank you, all for the music!
Now, I've been around the internet (twice) and I think I can live without it. Maybe more and more folk will realise that could be a blessing . . . . .things are changing fast, guys! This forum will too.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Re: Forum withdrawal symptoms [Re: MacMacMac] #2865565
07/03/19 12:52 PM
07/03/19 12:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,513
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline OP
9000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline OP
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,513
Raleigh, North Carolina
I will gladly fork over $29 a year for this. If that's what it takes to keep it running I'm fine with that. It's chump change.

@CG: I can understand that your potential exit is a way to overcome PW addiction.
But I wish you'd find another way. Yours in the one addiction to which I have no objection.

@Gombessa: You bring up a good point about a new user's reluctance to pay.
I originally came here just to ask some questions. I didn't expect to stay for a decade, so a paywall would have deterred me.
There ought to be a free period (free posts for the first month or something similar).

@EssBrace: I don't see any rationale for PW paying you ... or me or anyone else.
The site costs money to operate. And you have to pay to play. Simple commerce.

Web ad revenue is a problem for many web sites. My wife manages one, and it has been teetering on the brink on and off for a decade.
Those web ads don't bring in much ... and the loss of a sponsor and the subsequent search for a replacement is nerve wracking.

I wonder how much more income Frank needs to support this site?

I looked at the all-time top 1000 posters ... which I "presume" will include people who might be most willing to stay and pay.
I removed those who have not posted in the past 90 days.
I don't have the numbers on hand right now, but it was somewhere around 300 people.
Perhaps a dozen of those are already paid subscribers ... so no new revenue from them.

But of the rest ... if we all put up $3/month at the "bronze" level that would bring in close to $900/month. Or at $29/year, around $700 a month.
If some members opted for one of the higher levels, those figures could double.

But how much is enough?

Re: Forum withdrawal symptoms [Re: MacMacMac] #2865574
07/03/19 01:00 PM
07/03/19 01:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,603
G
Gombessa Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Gombessa  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
G

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,603
Originally Posted by MacMacMac

I looked at the all-time top 1000 posters ... which I "presume" will include people who might be most willing to stay and pay.
I removed those who have not posted in the past 90 days.
I don't have the numbers on hand right now, but it was somewhere around 300 people.
Perhaps a dozen of those are already paid subscribers ... so no new revenue from them.

But of the rest ... if we all put up $3/month at the "bronze" level that would bring in close to $900/month. Or at $29/year, around $700 a month.
If some members opted for one of the higher levels, those figures could double.


Mac, I was hoping you'd pull out some membership analytics. I earlier spitballed a number of 500 paying "regulars" out of thin air, which came out to around $15k/year for bronze. From Frank's post, it costs $10k/year to operate PW, so this is roughly the number he would need to cover the cost and them some. Add to that continued ad revenue, potential impact from reduced participation, etc., and it's pretty hard to extrapolate any more.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Forum withdrawal symptoms [Re: MacMacMac] #2865584
07/03/19 01:20 PM
07/03/19 01:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,513
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline OP
9000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline OP
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,513
Raleigh, North Carolina
It's too bad the stats are so limiting.

We know member names, date joined, and date "last seen" (whatever that means).
We also have every post a user has made (including date and time).
But we don't know how many posts a user reads. Lurking is invisible, even for logged in members.

I guess we'll find out whether this new model works ... when it happens.

But when Frank lowers the race flag I'll be there with my credit card.

Re: Forum withdrawal symptoms [Re: MacMacMac] #2865602
07/03/19 01:44 PM
07/03/19 01:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 194
R
R111 Online content
Full Member
R111  Online Content
Full Member
R

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 194
I can understand wanting to make money off a site, but that can often become the kiss of death if paywalls are implemented.

Maybe paying for extras like an avatar or unlimited posting would be a good compromise. The newbies and cheapskates could be limited to a post a day or maybe some character limit.

Re: Forum withdrawal symptoms [Re: MacMacMac] #2865620
07/03/19 02:26 PM
07/03/19 02:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,406
UK
S
spanishbuddha Offline
3000 Post Club Member
spanishbuddha  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
S

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,406
UK
Originally Posted by MacMacMac

@EssBrace: I don't see any rationale for PW paying you ... or me or anyone else.

On the forums, we use our experience, knowledge, skill to act as the authors of the information provided.

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