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Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos) [Re: aphexdisklavier] #2864295 06/30/19 02:13 PM
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Chopin Acolyte Offline OP
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Originally Posted by aphexdisklavier
@ chopin acolyte: when will you get the VPC1?


Hopefully, Tuesday smile

I hope it comes with all accessories needed to hook it up to a computer...I wanna try it right away.

Last edited by Chopin Acolyte; 06/30/19 02:13 PM.
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Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos) [Re: Chopin Acolyte] #2864315 06/30/19 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Chopin Acolyte
Originally Posted by aphexdisklavier
@ chopin acolyte: when will you get the VPC1?


Hopefully, Tuesday smile

I hope it comes with all accessories needed to hook it up to a computer...I wanna try it right away.


Yes USB cable and power cord are included. All you need is the USB cable. The power cord is only for the MIDI in and out. I am very curious how you find it...

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos) [Re: Chopin Acolyte] #2864336 06/30/19 03:08 PM
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The VPC-1 is enroute-- will the heretic upstart Jethro be vindicated, and his detractors made to look egg-faced chumps? Tune in next week to find out!

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos) [Re: Chopin Acolyte] #2864364 06/30/19 03:48 PM
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Yeah, that would be a curious thing. Jethro turning out right about VPC1 and Pianoteq being the best thing since sliced bread. I may even become myself eligible for a reciprocal ban! Which frankly would be better since this forum is taking too much time for me which I can otherwise spend playing piano, finishing my DIY-controller, finish the biography of Chopin, finish the book on orchestration by Piston, delve into creating electronic & EDM music experiments that I recently started... OMG, please ban me! shocked

Last edited by CyberGene; 06/30/19 03:49 PM.

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Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos) [Re: CyberGene] #2864367 06/30/19 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Yeah, that would be a curious thing. Jethro turning out right about VPC1 and Pianoteq being the best thing since sliced bread. I may even become myself eligible for a reciprocal ban! Which frankly would be better since this forum is taking too much time for me which I can otherwise spend playing piano, finishing my DIY-controller, finish the biography of Chopin, finish the book on orchestration by Piston, delve into creating electronic & EDM music experiments that I recently started... OMG, please ban me! shocked


While all you should be doing is PRACTICE. #lingling40hrs :P

By the way, will you ever release some footage/tutorial how to do that controller? You know like 1) steal some fine Steinway grand 2) toss the whole instrument except the action 3) ?? profit? laugh

But seriously, how do you detect when the "string" was struck? Velocity? Etc.

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos) [Re: CyberGene] #2864379 06/30/19 04:06 PM
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Cut the crap, CG.
Originally Posted by CyberGene
YI may even become myself eligible for a reciprocal ban! Which frankly would be better since this forum is taking too much time for me which I can otherwise spend playing piano, finishing my DIY-controller, finish the biography of Chopin, finish the book on orchestration by Piston, delve into creating electronic & EDM music experiments that I recently started... OMG, please ban me!
I'm surely not alone in wishing you **not** banned.

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos) [Re: Chopin Acolyte] #2864391 06/30/19 04:16 PM
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thickfingers Offline
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Ah, he can't be banned, he didn't do anything. Unless he blew up at a Mod by pm. He's probably just biding his time, waiting for an opportune moment to launch a devastating counter-attack. I'm intrigued to see what fiendish horrors he has planned. cool

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos) [Re: Chopin Acolyte] #2864394 06/30/19 04:17 PM
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The Never Ending Digi-Wars ...

A $1,500-$5,000 digital, is really quite a bargain. Will they ever be an acoustic? Of course not. Are some close? I sure feel they are. I have played the Yamaha and Kawai high end models and, for my use, I am quite satisfied with my used Kawai CA67. I do miss the soundboard of the CA9x Series for the tactile feedback of the keys. But the feel, sound and ease of moving? For me, all is just fine.

When digital cameras came around, there were very similar posts of pixels, shutter speed, Bayer patterns, color rendition and on and on and on. We used to call that whole process, Pixel Peeping.

Certainly digital pianos lend themselves to similar comparisons.

I believe, the better you play, the better any of these sound. It is a poor plumber that blames his tools.

Oh, and by the way, I too fell into wanting the latest whiz bang or key surface or soundboard and on and on. With what I have now, I focus on my playing. ( Without the G4 issue :-0 ) ( Couldn't resist )

A Happy Guy ...

Last edited by McBuster; 06/30/19 04:21 PM.

Jon ...

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A Tired, Retired, Dreamer ...
Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos) [Re: McBuster] #2864415 06/30/19 04:42 PM
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I cannot abide argument-by-cliche.
Originally Posted by McBuster
It is a poor plumber that blames his tools.
If the tools are inadequate, then blame the tools. And hold the cliches.

(Sorry ... but you hit a sore spot!) smile

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos) [Re: Chopin Acolyte] #2864924 07/01/19 07:35 PM
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Okay, I just received the VPC-1.

The keys feel okay (still not THE feeling, but I've given up on that). Since I don't have a stand yet, it's sitting on my desk, which is ~ 8in higher than it should be, so it's making the playing extremely unconfortable (I want to follow one user's tutorial on how to make a custom VPC-1 stand from wood).

Pianoteq sounds surprisingly underwhelming with VPC-1, louds are not really louds, but I guess I'd have to play with curves and volume for some time.

What surprises me that the middle pedal is not really sostenuto on every piano sample...I don't care what the piano had originally as a middle pedal, I want sostenuto there! laugh

The triple sensor really does it's job - fast note repetition mimicks what happens on a grand piano - hammer strike happens at about 2/3 of the key press and note can be repeated after lifting the key just a bit. Handy.

It's so annoying having to restart Pianoteq after 20 minutes and not hearing certain notes, because of the trial version.

All in all, I'll have to get a better stand (I want that custom made wooden, it's cool), piano chair and try more VSTs to decide what path I want to take.

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos) [Re: Chopin Acolyte] #2864937 07/01/19 07:59 PM
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Did you set the VPC1 to Pianoteq curve? The on light should flash red and turn green. If not green, maybe you want to look into this.

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos) [Re: Chopin Acolyte] #2865005 07/02/19 01:46 AM
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CyberGene Online Content
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Originally Posted by Chopin Acolyte
Okay, I just received the VPC-1.

The keys feel okay (still not THE feeling, but I've given up on that).

I’ve long ago came to that conclusion which ultimately made me want to make my own controller with a grand piano action and then purchase a NU1X and then a N1X.

But you can still try a CLP-675/685 as well as other keyboards such as the one you liked, the DS-88. And you can also try the Studiologic SL88 Grand.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos) [Re: CyberGene] #2865009 07/02/19 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene

I’ve long ago came to that conclusion which ultimately made me want to make my own controller with a grand piano action and then purchase a NU1X and then a N1X.

But you can still try a CLP-675/685 as well as other keyboards such as the one you liked, the DS-88. And you can also try the Studiologic SL88 Grand.


Nope, I already settled down with VPC-1 + Pianoteq (even bought the stage version). Since neither of the competitor offered a trial version (I'm not gonna buy something I didn't try), I went with the obvious choice.

I might upload some tests later again, but not before I get a proper stand. 8 inches is A LOT and my wrists already hurt from the unnatural pose (me sitting lower, below the keyboard).

On a side note: on Friday I'm gonna have my first piano lesson after 10 years shocked

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos) [Re: Chopin Acolyte] #2865020 07/02/19 03:20 AM
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Chopin Acolyte, which stand will you be using?

I'm a bit of a broken record on this subject, but please avoid X-stands (which obstruct your legs), and opt for either a Z-stand or a table stand. My recommendation for the VPC1 would be the K&M 18950 or 18953.

Kind regards,
James
x


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"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos) [Re: Chopin Acolyte] #2865025 07/02/19 03:39 AM
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Yes try different velocity curves with the VPC Editor (download on the Kawai site). I made my own one for my playing style with maximum of expression. Also for the pedals you can choose different MIDI CC# in the editor. For the stand I recommend the K&M too. Its very stabile and fits perfect with the VPC.

Last edited by aphexdisklavier; 07/02/19 03:40 AM.
Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos) [Re: aphexdisklavier] #2865029 07/02/19 03:56 AM
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Chopin Acolyte Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Chopin Acolyte, which stand will you be using?

I'm a bit of a broken record on this subject, but please avoid X-stands (which obstruct your legs), and opt for either a Z-stand or a table stand. My recommendation for the VPC1 would be the K&M 18950 or 18953.

Kind regards,
James
x


There was a forum member who made a custom-made wooden stand for VPC-1 and released schematics in a pdf document. I intend to take that to our school workshop to get their opinion on how much would that cost...

Originally Posted by aphexdisklavier
Yes try different velocity curves with the VPC Editor (download on the Kawai site). I made my own one for my playing style with maximum of expression. Also for the pedals you can choose different MIDI CC# in the editor. For the stand I recommend the K&M too. Its very stabile and fits perfect with the VPC.


So far calibrating the curve (by following simple instructions like "press key so it doesn't make sound" or "press key at maximum force without destroying it") has yielded fruitful results smile

I am a bit confused what is "note off signal" for. VPC-1 registers this note off signal, I guess that's simply just return velocity (when key goes up). Is it for some kind of tone decay simulation (when you put a damper over a string slowly it kinda makes that "meow" sound before the tone dies, opposed to when you do it quickly, it dies...well, quickly).

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos) [Re: Chopin Acolyte] #2865030 07/02/19 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Chopin Acolyte
I am a bit confused what is "note off signal" for. VPC-1 registers this note off signal, I guess that's simply just return velocity (when key goes up). Is it for some kind of tone decay simulation (when you put a damper over a string slowly it kinda makes that "meow" sound before the tone dies, opposed to when you do it quickly, it dies...well, quickly).


Yes, exactly.


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos) [Re: Chopin Acolyte] #2865031 07/02/19 04:04 AM
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Then that's good smile

I also loved the various settings available in the trial version, like adjusting hammer hardness, hammer hit sound (it's very apparent in the highest register where you can clearly hear thump thump from hammers)...and also tuning (various, not equal, tunings, octave stretching etc.) only to be disappointed when I upgraded to full version these settings disappeared frown

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos) [Re: Chopin Acolyte] #2865035 07/02/19 04:33 AM
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You upgraded to stage, not pro.


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Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos) [Re: CyberGene] #2865036 07/02/19 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
You upgraded to stage, not pro.


At $450 the Pro version is a little bit too pricey...

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