2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
25 registered members (Fer15, Man, Boboulus, Calavera, dng, 7 invisible), 381 guests, and 439 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Kawai "Microcell-Enhanced Repetition" upright action #2798516 01/04/19 04:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,861
CyberGene Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,861
Maybe this is for the piano forum but I stumbled upon a video about the new Kawai ATX-3 silent upright pianos:


At 0:56 there's a label that reads "Microcell-Enhanced Repetition". While this sounds like a mumbo-jumbo, it's a well known fact that the biggest disadvantage of upright actions compared to grand piano actions is the lack of double escapement (repetition lever), and thus on an upright you have to release the key almost fully in order to be able to repeat. There have been some mechanical solutions to this problem and AFAIK only Seiler offer an upright action that allows for near grand piano action repetition experience but they are way too expensive.

So I searched for this microcell thing and found almost nothing! The only mention of this system is on Australian pianoworld regarding K500:
Quote
The recently invented Microcell Enhanced Repetition, gives this model a greater responsive action, and faster repetition.


I have downloaded the latest brochure for Kawai K-series from Kawai-Global website and there's nothing. (I guess it's an older brochure since it also contains information regarding ATX 2 which is older).

James, can you help? What's this system and which K-series pianos do include it? More importantly, which ATX-3 pianos.

For instance I see on Thomann that a K-200 ATX-3 costs about €5000 which is just a €500 more than a Yamaha NU1X, but it has optical sensors on the hammers rather than under the keys and provided it also has better repetition, it would make it a very desirable instrument because it won't have sudden loud note problems because repetition is better and because hammers are measured. (And for those needing speakers, Kawai AURES adds the soundboard transducers in addition to regular ATX-3).

Last edited by CyberGene; 01/04/19 05:07 PM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
(ad) ROLAND

Click Here

Re: Kawai "Microcell-Enhanced Repetition" upright action [Re: CyberGene] #2798522 01/04/19 05:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,861
CyberGene Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,861
P.S. Seems that it's not only Seiler, but also Sauter, Steingraeber and Söhne (and possibly others) that offer advanced mechanical solution for faster repetition on upright actions.

Last edited by CyberGene; 01/04/19 05:28 PM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Kawai "Microcell-Enhanced Repetition" upright action [Re: CyberGene] #2806926 01/26/19 10:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 919
H
Hendrik42 Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
H
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 919
I have played the Steingraeber & Söhne SMA -- Steingraeber Magnetic Action in an (IIRC) 20 or 30k EUR upright. It was a marvel, just plain amazing how much better the repetition of the action was.

If Kawai is going to release something similar, I will have to re-think getting an acoustic upright, because until now I did not see the point, given that the action is really quite different to a grad piano.

So, James, can you shed some light here? Or do we have to wait for, like, Musikmesse 2019?


Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)
Re: Kawai "Microcell-Enhanced Repetition" upright action [Re: CyberGene] #2807047 01/26/19 03:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 919
H
Hendrik42 Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
H
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 919
Here is a guy from a piano service shop in the UK on Facebook posting a photo about it (same as in the video above):
https://urlscan.io/screenshots/ea1ccc08-dab8-4b8d-b81a-58574cac02e3.png

I wrote a mail to him to see if he can share anything from what he has seen, but maybe one of you is on Facebook and can see if there are any details there?

Currently I am thinking that it can't be anything at the level of Steingraeber SFM Action (not SMA as I wrote above), because Kawai would make a bigger deal out of it, but I am really interested to know what it is.


Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)
Re: Kawai "Microcell-Enhanced Repetition" upright action [Re: CyberGene] #2807051 01/26/19 03:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 446
N
navindra Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
N
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 446
Honestly, I detect sarcasm in that Facebook caption.

Re: Kawai "Microcell-Enhanced Repetition" upright action [Re: Hendrik42] #2807052 01/26/19 03:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,486
S
spanishbuddha Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,486
I have played a K500 upright, and would buy one in blink if I could find a way to have an acoustic where I live. Parts of the Millenium 3 action are usually described as being micro-engineered, so perhaps that was the origin of the reference. In the example of an upright the lightness of the action would help with repetition.
Originally Posted by Kawai

Micro-Engineered Design
The Millennium III Action features several core components that are redesigned with lighter mass and structural enhancements to optimize speed, repetition and control. Every exacting detail of the action was analyzed and adapted to .....

Re: Kawai "Microcell-Enhanced Repetition" upright action [Re: Hendrik42] #2807054 01/26/19 03:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,417
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,417
Originally Posted by Hendrik42
but maybe one of you is on Facebook and can see if there are any details there?

No details are there. Two comments but only of admirers.

If they didn't license it from someone else, I'd guess they likely would have filed for a patent on it, if it was incredibly innovative. You can search among Kawai's patent filings.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Kawai "Microcell-Enhanced Repetition" upright action [Re: CyberGene] #2807264 01/27/19 06:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 919
H
Hendrik42 Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
H
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 919
Yes, of course the FB post was sarcastic :- ), but what would you think as a piano technician when you'd spot that sticker in an piano? I can relate to that. But it makes no judgement or statement about what it actually is and what the consequences to repetition in an upright are.

I actually checked Kawai patents, but I believe one can only see the granted ones, not the submitted ones? And patents sometimes get granted after a product has been released, so there still could be something in the pipeline...

In any case, the FB post is from 2016, so it that was not a big deal in 2016, then it probably is not a big deal now. I'd still like to know what it is, though :- )


Kawai CN35. Daughter wanted a piano, so we got one. Now who'll learn faster? ;-)
Re: Kawai "Microcell-Enhanced Repetition" upright action [Re: CyberGene] #2807323 01/27/19 09:54 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,262
terminaldegree Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,262
I seem to recall (a Kawai rep showed this to me two days ago) this is simply the use of a new material in place of felt on the vertical piano hammer rest rail. It’s synthetic and has a bit more elasticity.

This was a running change that had started to be implemented in the recent past, but now it’s becoming standardized on their models.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Kawai "Microcell-Enhanced Repetition" upright action [Re: CyberGene] #2807359 01/27/19 11:12 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 803
L
Learux Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
L
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 803
That facebook picture is from June/2016, nothing new to see here.


When you play, never mind who listens to you. R.Schumann.

Casio GP-400
Schimmel SP-182T
Re: Kawai "Microcell-Enhanced Repetition" upright action [Re: CyberGene] #2862438 06/24/19 06:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,410
KawaiDon Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,410
I missed this post because it is in the digital piano area - this feature is in all Kawai acoustic upright pianos now.

This label refers to the microcellular memory foam material on the hammer rest rail. This material was engineered specifically to reduce hammer bounce to a minimum. This hugely improves the reliability of the action repetition. It does not increase the maximum repetition rate, it has the affect of keeping the hammers from bouncing away from the rest position, so that the jack can play the note without missing the hammer.

The label is actually a representation of the hammer rail setup, with the special foam material shown.


Don Mannino, MPA
Kawai America
Re: Kawai "Microcell-Enhanced Repetition" upright action [Re: CyberGene] #2862503 06/24/19 08:47 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,017
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,017
thumb


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Kawai "Microcell-Enhanced Repetition" upright action [Re: CyberGene] #2862549 06/24/19 11:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,861
CyberGene Offline OP
4000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,861
^ Thanks Don, that’s very interesting! Using memory foam for cushioning is indeed a very original idea for an upright action. Wondering if it really makes a difference though. In theory it’s a cool idea.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Kawai "Microcell-Enhanced Repetition" upright action [Re: CyberGene] #2863438 06/27/19 09:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,410
KawaiDon Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,410
Originally Posted by CyberGene
^ Thanks Don, that’s very interesting! Using memory foam for cushioning is indeed a very original idea for an upright action. Wondering if it really makes a difference though. In theory it’s a cool idea.

I can tell you from personal testing that it definitely works.


Don Mannino, MPA
Kawai America

Moderated by  Piano World 

What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our January 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
Free Piano Newsletter
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Free Trial
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
How do I start teaching piano?
by Classical Lover - 02/22/20 02:00 AM
Kawaik500 price
by Morgrob - 02/21/20 10:30 PM
When to practice with pedal?
by baudelairepianist - 02/21/20 09:12 PM
Pure 12th aural tuning sequence
by TimM_980 - 02/21/20 08:41 PM
YUYS5 TA2 vs GC1 TA2
by SNkeys - 02/21/20 07:33 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics197,111
Posts2,928,476
Members96,066
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3