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Opinions about Feurich Grands? #2863102
06/26/19 06:52 PM
06/26/19 06:52 PM
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ShiroKuro Offline OP
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There is a dealer advertising a used Feurich grand. It's a bit of a drive so I'm trying to decide whether the go and see/play it or not. It's not clear how old it is (no info on the site, but the photo is very pretty, so the case at least is in excellent condition). Oh, I think it is under 6 feet but probably bigger than say a Yamaha G1. (just guessing though)

I know nothing about Feurich so I wondered if anyone here had any thoughts or experience with them. Anything I should watch for, any specific concern. Positive or negative comments appreciated!

Last edited by ShiroKuro; 06/26/19 06:53 PM.

Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
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Re: Opinions about Feurich Grands? [Re: ShiroKuro] #2863110
06/26/19 07:13 PM
06/26/19 07:13 PM
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ShiroKuro Offline OP
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Ok, totally guessing here, but based on photos etc. I bet the Feurich is 30-ish years old, so if you have advice/comments about Feurich grands from that era, thanks in advance!

Also, what do you think would be a reasonable price (assuming it didn't need any work, was in good condition etc.)

I feel like when I see a used Yamaha grand advertised, I can kind of think "oh that's a reasonable price for that age" or something, but I have zero data points for the Feurich.


Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u

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Re: Opinions about Feurich Grands? [Re: ShiroKuro] #2863128
06/26/19 08:14 PM
06/26/19 08:14 PM
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At 30 years old, it's a behind the iron curtain piano and is probably worth little. The factory that had been built after the bombing of the original factory during WWII was taken over by the communists and the conventional wisdom is than none of these pianos, no matter the name or factory are worth much or are more than average musical instruments and you don't seem to be looking for average.

Kurt


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Re: Opinions about Feurich Grands? [Re: ShiroKuro] #2863147
06/26/19 10:18 PM
06/26/19 10:18 PM
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ShiroKuro Offline OP
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Kurt thanks for commenting!
So if they’re much newer, are they better regarded?

On the subject of average, what counts as an average instrument? .... I don’t know what I’m looking for (i.e. average or not) but I know I want something reliable, that is not going to start having lots of problems, that will hold its tuning. So for example that’s why I have Yamaha on my radar, because they’re so reliable, so consistent. Does Yamaha count as better than average?

(I don’t know how this post sounds but it’s not meant to sound snarky at all! These are sincere questions! smile

Last edited by ShiroKuro; 06/26/19 10:18 PM.

Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u

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Re: Opinions about Feurich Grands? [Re: ShiroKuro] #2863152
06/26/19 10:38 PM
06/26/19 10:38 PM
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I would still try to get some additional information regarding the piano such as the serial number. The feurich grands I’ve come across in the 90s were exceptional instruments. It still might be worth a look depending on age, condition and price.

Rich


Retired at the beach

Anton Rubinstein said about the piano: "You think it is one instrument? It is a hundred instruments!"
Re: Opinions about Feurich Grands? [Re: ShiroKuro] #2863179
06/27/19 12:58 AM
06/27/19 12:58 AM
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Queensland, Australia
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YAMAHA - yes, I'd generally think a well prepared one is above the average. But - individual pianos differ significantly - on condition, how well they were prepared, how much work they've done.

The "C" and "CX" series were better than the "G" series. "S" and "CF"s are very good or great pianos (and expensive).


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: Opinions about Feurich Grands? [Re: ShiroKuro] #2863220
06/27/19 07:16 AM
06/27/19 07:16 AM
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ShiroKuro Offline OP
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Rich, thanks. I will try to get more info and then decide whether to make the drive or not.

Alan, thanks for that explanation. So would you describe the G series as average? Or at that point does it depend on the specifics of the actual piano? Again, I ask because I’ve played G-series pianos and I see them online a lot, so I have lots of data points for them, and it could help me to compare based on the Yamahas.


Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u

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Re: Opinions about Feurich Grands? [Re: ShiroKuro] #2863229
06/27/19 08:19 AM
06/27/19 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
There is a dealer advertising a used Feurich grand. It's a bit of a drive so I'm trying to decide whether the go and see/play it or not. It's not clear how old it is (no info on the site, but the photo is very pretty, so the case at least is in excellent condition). Oh, I think it is under 6 feet but probably bigger than say a Yamaha G1. (just guessing though)

I know nothing about Feurich so I wondered if anyone here had any thoughts or experience with them. Anything I should watch for, any specific concern. Positive or negative comments appreciated!

I performed on a Feurich grand a couple of months ago, for which I practiced on a Yamaha grand. Both were about the same size (between 5'6" and 6") but I don't know what models they were, and both were beautifully prepped (in the same venue - on a ship, in fact) and probably about a decade old. The Feurich's brown casing was particularly exquisite (and I thought it looked rather thicker than that of the Yamaha).

The most immediate impression was that the Feurich's action was much lighter and its tone much more mellow than the Yamaha's (whose action was actually much heavier than I'm used to) and going straight from the Yamaha to the Feurich was a shock to the system: my first thought was how dull the sound was, and I even attempted to force the tone to get the brilliance in ff that I'd become accustomed to from the Yamaha. Then I realized that wasn't the way to get the best from the instrument - you have to work with it, not try to make it sound like something it isn't - so I 'readjusted' my ears, and soon discovered that I could actually do more with it (in terms of nuances, range of tonal variation & dynamics etc) than I could with the Yamaha, whose sound was bright even when played pp.

So, in the end, I really enjoyed playing and then performing on the Feurich, and would unquestionably choose it over the Yamaha, if I was going to have one of them as a home piano.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Opinions about Feurich Grands? [Re: ShiroKuro] #2863230
06/27/19 08:22 AM
06/27/19 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Rich, thanks. I will try to get more info and then decide whether to make the drive or not.

Alan, thanks for that explanation. So would you describe the G series as average? Or at that point does it depend on the specifics of the actual piano? Again, I ask because I’ve played G-series pianos and I see them online a lot, so I have lots of data points for them, and it could help me to compare based on the Yamahas

Hi ShiroKuro,

I'm no pro, and just repeat what I've heard and read at times here on PW, but I heard (from a Yamaha rebuilder/refurbisher) that the cast iron plate on the G series Yamahas were not as thick or as heavy as the C series. There were also some differences in the construction of the case/cabinet. In other words, the C series appears to be a little more robust or heavier-duty than the G (for institutional use maybe?). But in all honesty, I doubt the average piano player could tell one iota difference between the two while playing. And, again, condition is everything when it comes to pre-owned pianos... well, most everything. smile

Also, I believe the G series came first, and then the C later on, while the G series continued to be manufactured, if my Yamaha history is correct. A lot of PW members own the Yamaha G series pianos and love them.

There are a lot of grey-market Yamahas out there (with two pedals) that you might want to be cautious of... not that they are not good pianos, but just be aware of what you are buying. Unfortunately, dealers are not always transparent as to the origin of the pianos they are selling, although some are. I would consider a grey-market Yamaha, but at a much higher discounted rate than one made for the US market in very good condition. But that is just me...

Maybe someone more knowledgeable will chime in with more info on the differences between the G and C series Yamahas.

Good luck!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Opinions about Feurich Grands? [Re: KurtZ] #2863311
06/27/19 02:54 PM
06/27/19 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by KurtZ
At 30 years old, it's a behind the iron curtain piano and is probably worth little. The factory that had been built after the bombing of the original factory during WWII was taken over by the communists and the conventional wisdom is than none of these pianos, no matter the name or factory are worth much or are more than average musical instruments and you don't seem to be looking for average.

Kurt


Not so Kurt, in the 1960s Feurich moved his factory to Bavaria. Although I agree with you on the quality of instruments made behind the Iron Curtain.

The 1980s Feurich instruments are of very high quality, but they are also quite old. At St Andrews University there is a Feurich from 1985 and it's a beautifully built piano, but it does sound a bit tired. The fact it has been sitting in front of a massive window for a good 15 years has probably not helped it one little bit, however I can still hear and feel that it is ultimately a piano of exceptional quality.

Feurich is such a little known brand that they sell for very little when compared to other makes of the same quality, and so it's sometimes possible to find a very good deal.

Be prepared to have to engage a technician to voice and regulate it, level the strings, etc and don't expect too much from the piano. I can almost guarantee it won't be as good for you as a new Yamaha C3X, but at the same time it's probably not sitting in that price bracket either.

Re: Opinions about Feurich Grands? [Re: ShiroKuro] #2863399
06/27/19 08:29 PM
06/27/19 08:29 PM
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ShiroKuro Offline OP
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Bennevis, Rickster, Joe, thank you all for the comments and lots of food for thought!

Rickster, aren't two-pedal grands going to be a good deal older? I am planning/hoping to not even consider anything that's more than 40 years old. Although, I don't know, were there still two-pedal grands made in the 1980s?
Regarding the cast iron plate, I wonder if the thicker/heavier plate translates into more stability, things like that.

Bennevis, thanks for those comments, that makes me excited to try it! Of course with any older piano, I need to be very careful about the condition, and as Joe says, there could be issues etc.
BTW what is your home piano?

Also, Joe, my budget is definitely not in the range of a new Yamaha C3X! smile

Maybe a used C3 though...


Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u

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Re: Opinions about Feurich Grands? [Re: ShiroKuro] #2863400
06/27/19 08:35 PM
06/27/19 08:35 PM
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There is a YouTube teacher/performer named Paul Barton, who records some/many of his videos on a Feurich grand. In the videos, the piano sounds wonderful.

He may have contact information on the web/YouTube, etc. since he is a teacher. He might provide you information about his experience with Feurich.


Ralph

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Re: Opinions about Feurich Grands? [Re: ShiroKuro] #2863404
06/27/19 08:49 PM
06/27/19 08:49 PM
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ShiroKuro Offline OP
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Ralphiano, thanks for that info! I found him:

https://www.feurich.com/en/paul-barton/

https://www.feurich.com/en/paul-barton/

Feurich is obviously his sponsor, so I bet he's playing on new instruments! But still, this is interesting to see, thank you for suggesting it!


Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u

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Re: Opinions about Feurich Grands? [Re: ShiroKuro] #2863406
06/27/19 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Bennevis, thanks for those comments, that makes me excited to try it! Of course with any older piano, I need to be very careful about the condition, and as Joe says, there could be issues etc.
BTW what is your home piano?

It's a high-end digital (Roland V-Piano) which I've had since I joined PW.

BTW, the Feurich I played has a tonal character almost identical to Paul Barton's piano in his videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74uZ0tHfTjE


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Opinions about Feurich Grands? [Re: Ralphiano] #2863408
06/27/19 08:59 PM
06/27/19 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Ralphiano
There is a YouTube teacher/performer named Paul Barton, who records some/many of his videos on a Feurich grand. In the videos, the piano sounds wonderful.

He may have contact information on the web/YouTube, etc. since he is a teacher. He might provide you information about his experience with Feurich.


Paul Barton is a Feurich artist and his YouTube videos are advertising for Feuruch. Although he spends many hours playing a Feurich, I would not consider him to be an unbiased source for Feuruch information/assessment.

Re: Opinions about Feurich Grands? [Re: ShiroKuro] #2863409
06/27/19 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Rickster, aren't two-pedal grands going to be a good deal older? I am planning/hoping to not even consider anything that's more than 40 years old. Although, I don't know, were there still two-pedal grands made in the 1980s?

Well, if the seller has a used Yamaha grand with 2 pedals and says it's a later model, you'll know something ain't right. smile

But you are correct that some of the very old pianos have the two pedals instead of three. But if the Yamaha grand piano is presented as a later model or, say, 20 or 30 years old with two pedals, it is likely a grey-market piano. Again, at the right price, a grey-market piano may be fine. Some of the grey-market pianos do have three pedals.

If you do look at a pre-owned Yamaha grand piano, here is the Yamaha website where you can check the serial # to see if it was made for the US market or not.

Yamaha Piano Serial Number Search

Good luck!

Rick




Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Opinions about Feurich Grands? [Re: ShiroKuro] #2863418
06/27/19 09:50 PM
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Thanks for that link Rickster! So far I haven’t seen any two-pedal Yamahas.


Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u

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Re: Opinions about Feurich Grands? [Re: ShiroKuro] #2863456
06/28/19 12:37 AM
06/28/19 12:37 AM
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Queensland, Australia
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Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Thanks for that link Rickster! So far I haven’t seen any two-pedal Yamahas.

My teacher has 2 C3s with 2 pedals - one in the teaching room and one in her living room. They're both, I believe from the '70s, and at least one of them as been partly rebuilt. As far as I know, they're not grey market.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: Opinions about Feurich Grands? [Re: ShiroKuro] #2863464
06/28/19 01:21 AM
06/28/19 01:21 AM
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The Feurich grands Paul Barton uses are completely different pianos to the one you are looking at. The older Feurichs are tier one pianos from Germany, and the new models are Hailuns in the low price range. I'm not saying the new ones aren't good pianos, I'm saying they're in a completely different price bracket and quality tier, although actually they're quite good pianos for the money.

In Europe, lots of pianos had two pedals even up to the 1990s. Even Steinways in the 80s produced model Os with 2 pedals, although it was becoming far less common then. A lot of the other makes - Bechstein, Bösendorfer, Blüthner, didn't bother with the sostenuto on smaller models, unless they were being exported to the USA. We have Yamaha grands here from as late as 1990 that don't have three pedals.

Re: Opinions about Feurich Grands? [Re: ShiroKuro] #2863491
06/28/19 04:55 AM
06/28/19 04:55 AM
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Feurich moved from East to West Germany in 1959. They were located in Langlau (Bavaria) together with Euterpe. 1991 they were bought by Bechstein, but 1993 Feurich started again by their own in Gunzenhausen (Bavaria). I don´t know where Bechstein produced the Feurichs between 1991 and 1993. Feurich were allways very fine top instruments. They stopped production in Germany in 2011 or 2012. Today Julius Feurich is factory manager at the Seiler factory.


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