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Re: Best overall piano for all styles of music #286279
05/26/08 08:59 PM
05/26/08 08:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 495
N. Texas
Barbara G Offline
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Barbara G  Offline
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Posts: 495
N. Texas
TLuvva,
The great writer and expert Jeremy Siepmann in his book "The Piano:The complete illustrated guide..."
says that Rach and Scribian were romantics. He writes about Rachmaninov, "The fluidity and elegance of his left-hand parts, combined with a predominantly Lisztian view of the piano in general (full of massive chords, orchestral textures and blazing octave passages), helped to bring the great romantic piano tradition to a belated and final climax." He has this to say about Scriabin, " Few composers have travelled so far in style as Scriabin, who began his composing career as an ingratiatingly brilliant, seductively romantic neo-Chopin and ended it as something akin to a revolutionary anarchist. No composer was more open in paying his artistic debts. The forms and titles of his early works come straight from Chopin: mazurkas, nocturnes, preludes, waltzes, studies. So does his imaginative and resourceful use of the pedals. Later he moved onto larger works: ten remarkable, and remarkably different, sonatas, in which his increasing modernism took shape, as he moved through Lisztian and Wagnerian phases before abandoning them and moving into uncharted waters, where conventional notions of rhythm, key and colour dissolve in a style of extraordinary originality, blending the mystical and the sensual in a manner quite impossible to describe without recourse to jargon."


Master of Music, School Teacher, Church Musician- See "Our Adventure to a New grand" thread... http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/18212.html
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Re: Best overall piano for all styles of music #286280
05/26/08 10:20 PM
05/26/08 10:20 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 512
Sterling Heights, Michigan
M
Mat D. Offline
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M

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 512
Sterling Heights, Michigan
Steinway B C D IMHO....you have 2 varieties to chose from, NY and Hamburg.....lots of possibilities there. If I had to choose just one, it would be the Hamburg C.

just my $.02
Mat D.

Re: Best overall piano for all styles of music #286281
05/26/08 10:32 PM
05/26/08 10:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,587
New York
L
LJC Offline
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LJC  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,587
New York
For Jazz, It depends on the style thats why the great O.P. played a Bosie and Joe Sample plays a Steinway (hes recorded on both Ny and Hamburg Ds.)
As for the greatest composer or at least my favorite Rachmaninoff he is generally considered to have closd out the Romantic period. I have to agree....As for my opinion y'all know what I like but I have to say For Bach Mozart and a few more the bosie works well. I like a big D for the Romantic composers-all of them.

Re: Best overall piano for all styles of music #286282
05/26/08 11:02 PM
05/26/08 11:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
turandot Offline
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turandot  Offline
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torrance, CA
Quote
from Matt D.
Steinway B C D IMHO....you have 2 varieties to chose from, NY and Hamburg.....lots of possibilities there. If I had to choose just one, it would be the Hamburg C.
I think Keith Jarrett has reached the same conclusion. He obtained at his own expense (is there any other way wink ) a Hamburg Steinway for his personal use although I think he still maintains a NY Steinway that he's had for many years.


Quote
from LJC
For Jazz, It depends on the style thats why the great O.P. played a Bosie and Joe Sample plays a Steinway (hes recorded on both Ny and Hamburg Ds.)
As for the greatest composer or at least my favorite Rachmaninoff he is generally considered to have closd out the Romantic period. I have to agree....As for my opinion y'all know what I like but I have to say For Bach Mozart and a few more the bosie works well. I like a big D for the Romantic composers-all of them.
I believe Bill Evans was a Steinway guy too. You've gotta assume that he and Peterson both chose what they thought shaped their musical ideas best. It's hard to argue with the results. I don't know what Brubeck played, but I can imagine his music on a Sauter.

Thanks for clarifying who the greatest composer is. laugh Rachmaninoff certainly fits Steinway like a glove.

TLuvva,

Rachmaninoff was a post-romantic by era, but he was almost an anachronism if judged against his contemporaries. He didn't do a whole lot structurally that had not been done before, but no matter. He took romanticism to the limits and gave pianists some incredible material that still brings down the house today.


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Best overall piano for all styles of music #286283
05/27/08 04:58 AM
05/27/08 04:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,302
Finland
J
Jan-Erik Offline
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Jan-Erik  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,302
Finland
Disputes about brand always seem to rise great interst among forumists. (Reminds me of supporters of football teams).

How would you evaluate my August Förster 125 G uppight?

When the sound varies from piano to piano it can be misleading to generalize.one famouspianist said the brand does not matter, it is the preparation. And of course how you play.

Re: Best overall piano for all styles of music #286284
05/27/08 10:09 AM
05/27/08 10:09 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 39
San Francisco
R
RafaelSF Offline
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 39
San Francisco
Quote:

I believe Bill Evans was a Steinway guy too. You've gotta assume that he and Peterson both chose what they thought shaped their musical ideas best. It's hard to argue with the results. I don't know what Brubeck played, but I can imagine his music on a Sauter.

I'm kind of new to the board, so I haven't quite figured out how to "quote" passages properly, so this is my crude cut 'n paste attempt.

At any rate, I read somewhere that Brubeck (one of my top influences) preferred a Baldwin grand and that may be what he has at home. However, since Baldwin is not as prominent as it once was or as Steinway, Yamaha, Bosendorfers and others are today, I suspect very few of his recordings will be on that Baldwin. Open to corrections from members. But I remember this factoid because I would have thought for sure he'd be a Steinway guy and was not aware that any of the "giants" of jazz used Baldwin.

BTW, my choice for versatility of styles would in fact be a Steinway B.

To display my ignorance, I never even heard of Sauter when I was finalizing my piano shopping last year. They must not be represented very well---or at all---in San Francisco.

Re: Best overall piano for all styles of music #286285
05/27/08 10:21 AM
05/27/08 10:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
turandot Offline
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turandot  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
from Jan-Erik
Quote
Disputes about brand always seem to rise great interst among forumists. (Reminds me of supporters of football teams).

How would you evaluate my August Förster 125 G uppight?

When the sound varies from piano to piano it can be misleading to generalize.one famouspianist said the brand does not matter, it is the preparation. And of course how you play.
Jan-Erik,

I don't think there's any dispute or attempt to rate here. Like the OP said, versatility does not necessarily mean the best at any one thing. It's just a fun topic.

You're of course right that piano prep and the ability of the player are big factors, but the particular composition makes a big difference too. Take the Beethoven sonatas. You could choose a different piano for different sonatas (or even different movements) depending on the invidividual demands of the material.

What repertoire do you think makes your Förster shine? From my limited acquaintance with A. Förster, I would assign it to the first movement of the Waldstein Sonata where I could depend on it to maintain complete clarity in all registers. Then I would haul out a Bösendorfer for the slow Introduzione, and replace it with a Steinway to carry the singing treble of the Rondo (keeping pedalling to a minimum to limit the 'accumulation' in the bass. laugh


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Best overall piano for all styles of music #286286
05/27/08 09:30 PM
05/27/08 09:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 70
Brooklyn, New York
E
erad1948 Offline
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erad1948  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 70
Brooklyn, New York
I have heard alot of this about different pianos sounding better with different types of music but I am not sure I buy into it. If a piano has a great sound, it has a great sound... clarity, tone, harmonics, sustain, power... Shouldn't anything sound great on a great piano? If a piano is dull, fuzzy, tinny, lacking bass, etc... don't you think anything you play will sound bad? This website is frequented by so many highly qualified musicians and technicians, I wouldn't want to dispute their claims... In the book "Grand Obsession" the author talks about particular composers sounding better on one instrument than another... She is not even talking the difference between Jazz and Classical, but from one composer to another. (though I understand that the composers can be from different eras or types of classical music).
Maybe I just don't have the ear! I love my August Foerster 215 (7'2")and have played all types of music on it. It all sounds great as long as the piano has been tuned well. That's another thing... what about tuning and temperaments? That will definitely affect how certain music will sound!

Re: Best overall piano for all styles of music #286287
05/27/08 10:26 PM
05/27/08 10:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 387
Wichita, Kansas
G
gutenberg Offline
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 387
Wichita, Kansas
I think I read that for her recent recordings of Beethoven's Op. 101 and 106, Uchida used 2 different Steinways. She was after a particular sound for each sonata.

Re: Best overall piano for all styles of music #286288
05/27/08 10:43 PM
05/27/08 10:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 394
Athens, Georgia
T
TLuvva Offline
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TLuvva  Offline
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T

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 394
Athens, Georgia
I want to say that when I read the opening post in this thread, I thought I was going to have to put on my sunglasses and watch the fireworks from a safe distance. I thought I would hear that tired old tone, touch, appearance, price mantra again along with others mocking the original poster for asking such a question.

I'm pleasantly surprised to see the discussion here and the big plug for the Sauters. Makes me want to try one for sure. Thanks all for the open-minded discussion, all.

Re: Best overall piano for all styles of music #286289
05/28/08 01:05 AM
05/28/08 01:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member
turandot  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,439
torrance, CA
Tlluva,

I agree with you. This thread has been fun. I hope you (or I) don't kill the thread eek . Maybe Keith Kerman can spare us a little more of his time.

Regarding the Sauter 'plugs', RafaelSF said:

Quote
To display my ignorance, I never even heard of Sauter when I was finalizing my piano shopping last year. They must not be represented very well---or at all---in San Francisco.
I had never played a Sauter until late last year. I normally don't even play sticker-shock pianos in showrooms since it might lead me to want one, but I had read so many favorable comments about Sauter in this forum that when I saw one, I couldn't resist. The piano that has been impossible for me to find is a new Steingraeber. I'm going to try to remedy that this summer. I'm really curious after reading all the glowing reports here.


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
Re: Best overall piano for all styles of music #286290
05/28/08 01:09 AM
05/28/08 01:09 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,722
Danville, California
F
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Furtwangler  Offline
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F

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,722
Danville, California
Both Sauter and Steingraeber are represented by R. Kassman in Berkeley. Call Russell for an appointment and go see them! They are both really something. He has Bluthner too!


Amateur Pianist and raconteur.
Re: Best overall piano for all styles of music #286291
05/28/08 04:00 PM
05/28/08 04:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,302
Finland
J
Jan-Erik Offline
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Jan-Erik  Offline
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J

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,302
Finland
I think it can couse difficulties to switch pianos during a recital. However, if the action response is similar, then it might be O.K.

IMO all part of one work should be perfomed on the same instrument. But - I am not sure. Who is the first to try in public the use of two or three grands?

It could be very interesting to hear something else than a Steinway.

Re: Best overall piano for all styles of music #286292
05/28/08 07:22 PM
05/28/08 07:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 42
New York City
S
stevepiano Offline
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stevepiano  Offline
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S

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 42
New York City
Steinway, vintage era, restored correctly. Model A and larger. Over 30+ years of being around them and every other piano under the stars leads me to that conclusion.

Steve Drasche
AC Pianocraft, Inc.
acpianocraft.com


Stephen Drasche - Drasche Pianos/AC Pianocraft, Inc. 4th generation piano rebuilder - Steinway specialist
www.acpianocraft.com
Re: Best overall piano for all styles of music #286293
05/29/08 05:50 AM
05/29/08 05:50 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,380
Stockholm, Sweden
pianistical Offline
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pianistical  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,380
Stockholm, Sweden
Quote
Originally posted by Keith:
Part of the greater versatility I ascribe to the American style pianos is that it is easier to bring out clarity in an American style piano, when required, then to create an accumulative effect with many of the European style pianos.
Well put.

But oh that clarity!


“There are only two important things which I took with me on my way to America, It´s been my wife Natalja and my precious Blüthner.” – Sergei Rachmaninov

1913 Blüthner model 6
1929 Blüthner model 9.
Re: Best overall piano for all styles of music #286294
05/29/08 05:24 PM
05/29/08 05:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 314
Iowa
PianoPro Offline
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PianoPro  Offline
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Iowa
Quote
Originally posted by Always Wanted to Play Piano:
A good digital?

(Ducks, runs for cover...)
I like Roland. Particularly impressed with the HP207.


Dennis C.
Piano Store Operator,
Former District Manager,
20 Year Industry Experience

"Tell the truth, honor God, and make money!"
Re: Best overall piano for all styles of music #286295
05/29/08 07:03 PM
05/29/08 07:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 647
Los Angeles/Burbank
Glenn Treibitz Offline
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Glenn Treibitz  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 647
Los Angeles/Burbank
Quote
Originally posted by PianoPro:
Quote
Originally posted by Always Wanted to Play Piano:
[b] A good digital?

(Ducks, runs for cover...)
I like Roland. Particularly impressed with the HP207. [/b]
From the stand point of versatility it is hard to beat a digital. HP207 is impressive.


Glenn Treibitz

Hollywood Piano Co. - Est.1928
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Re: Best overall piano for all styles of music #286296
05/29/08 09:00 PM
05/29/08 09:00 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,587
New York
L
LJC Offline
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LJC  Offline
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L

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,587
New York
Rachmaninoff was a post-romantic by era, but he was almost an anachronism if judged against his contemporaries. He didn't do a whole lot structurally that had not been done before, but no matter. He took romanticism to the limits and gave pianists some incredible material that still brings down the house today.

IMO S.R. used traditional formats but with non traditional progressions and chord structures. Many of his melodies are unmatched in beauty harmonized in a deep lush spiced sound.

To add one I think Fazioli would be equally great for Bach, etc but a little too straight laced for the Romantics IMO.

Uchida uses a Hamburg D. Her tech did my voicing and told me she has 3 of em.

As for anything sounding good on a great piano well I agree however some instruments do lend themselves more to certain styles. Maybe Pique could chime in here since she is the author referred to.

Re: Best overall piano for all styles of music [Re: turandot] #1744881
09/02/11 12:29 AM
09/02/11 12:29 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 521
Washington, D.C.
Aliwally Offline
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Posts: 521
Washington, D.C.
Originally Posted by turandot
Tlluva,

I agree with you. This thread has been fun. I hope you (or I) don't kill the thread eek . Maybe Keith Kerman can spare us a little more of his time.

Regarding the Sauter 'plugs', RafaelSF said:

Quote
To display my ignorance, I never even heard of Sauter when I was finalizing my piano shopping last year. They must not be represented very well---or at all---in San Francisco.
I had never played a Sauter until late last year. I normally don't even play sticker-shock pianos in showrooms since it might lead me to want one, but I had read so many favorable comments about Sauter in this forum that when I saw one, I couldn't resist. The piano that has been impossible for me to find is a new Steingraeber. I'm going to try to remedy that this summer. I'm really curious after reading all the glowing reports here.



I know this thread is about 3 years old but I think it can continue. During this time Turandot (which is not the original OP, see page 1) stated that he could not find new Steingraeber. Recently Keith has put up videos of Shaun playing a Steingraeber. People agreed that Sauter was nice for all styles of music. Keith stated that the American Pianos are nice too.

Three years later has anything changed. Do most people feel the same? As far as American pianos go, would a Charles Walter qualify? I heard they sound great for romantic period music, but not great for jazz/pop music. More people have joined in the past three years. Feel free to give your opinion on the subject matter.

Hope it's alright with the moderators to open an old thread. It seems Keith never came back, maybe he would like to continue too. How would the Steingraber compare to the Sauter, Steinways, Mason & Hamlins? The one I heard recently here seems like it would sound great for all styles of music.


Yamaha P-120, Feurich 122

Always look ahead, but never look back. - Miles Davis
Re: Best overall piano for all styles of music [Re: Aliwally] #1744906
09/02/11 02:48 AM
09/02/11 02:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 113
Paradigm City
R_Dorothy Offline
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Paradigm City
Quote
How would the Steingraber compare to the Sauter, Steinways, Mason & Hamlins?


I too would also like to know. Zombie thread!


If you want love you must be love
But if you bleed love you will die love
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