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"Older" than Bach #2862346
06/24/19 01:57 PM
06/24/19 01:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
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Animisha Offline OP
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For me, it is very fascinating that I play pieces that were composed as early as the 1700ths. Just the thought that almost 300 years ago, a man dressed in antique clothes and with a curly wig sat at his pianoforte or harpsichord, using a feather pen to write the notes that I now read from my i-pad to play on my digital piano. The composer probably never imagined that 300 years later adults older than 50 would study his children's pieces with such intensity! But somehow we are connected, the composer and me.
I think the oldest piece I have ever played is Bach's Minuet in G major from 1725, but it is hard to be sure. What is the oldest piece you all have played, as far as you know? Any really old beginner's piece you would recommend?

Last edited by Animisha; 06/24/19 02:07 PM.

Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
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Re: "Older" than Bach [Re: Animisha] #2862347
06/24/19 02:04 PM
06/24/19 02:04 PM
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Florida
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Can’t help you with the repertoire but I have the same feeling when I play my 1903 piano. I would love to have a piano party with everyone who owned it to hear their piano stories. Music is truly eternal. Someone 300 years from now will have the same struggles learning to play that we do now. .... or maybe not the same 😮


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It’s ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: "Older" than Bach [Re: Animisha] #2862352
06/24/19 02:23 PM
06/24/19 02:23 PM
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Georgia, USA
Sam S Offline

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Johann Kuhnau was Bach's predecessor at Leipzig, so his works would be older.

Works from the Fitzwilliam Virginal book are probably older, like Henry Purcell's music.

And Francois Couperin was about 20 years older than Bach, but after 300 years, who's counting?

Sam

Re: "Older" than Bach [Re: Animisha] #2862357
06/24/19 02:43 PM
06/24/19 02:43 PM
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LarryK Online content
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This is not music for the piano but I've played pieces by Luys Milán, a Spanish composer, on the classical guitar. His work dates from the 1500s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_de_Milán


Yamaha P-515, Pianoteq Standard 6
Re: "Older" than Bach [Re: Animisha] #2862358
06/24/19 02:45 PM
06/24/19 02:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 377
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Tech-key Offline
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Totally get you on this! I tend to romanticise history too. That’s how classical music interested me in the first place. Other than, of course, Für Elise wink

My oldest would be Minuet in A Minor, by Johann Kreiger (1651-1735). This link says it was published in 1697. It’s a beautiful, little piece. A bit melancholic. Learnt it very recently, and I’ve been playing it non-stop since. Though in my own clumsy way, haha.

Edit: You got me curious enough to google for the oldest surviving keyboard music. Also, you can try something by Jean-Baptiste Lully (1632-1687).

Last edited by Tech-key; 06/24/19 02:54 PM.
Re: "Older" than Bach [Re: Animisha] #2862360
06/24/19 02:49 PM
06/24/19 02:49 PM
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You could try the keyboard music of the English virginalists. Probably the most well known book being the Fitzwilliam virginal book. Mid 1500's and onwards. I think Gould was fond of it.

Re: "Older" than Bach [Re: Animisha] #2862362
06/24/19 02:57 PM
06/24/19 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Animisha
I think the oldest piece I have ever played is Bach's Minuet in G major from 1725, but it is hard to be sure. What is the oldest piece you all have played, as far as you know? Any really old beginner's piece you would recommend?

I played a few keyboard pieces by England's greatest composer, Henry Purcell (1659-1695), when I was a student - from Denes Agay's volume of Easy Classics to Moderns, like this simple but sad minuet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhiZpbsjNeY

Purcell's music is amazingly overtly emotional, surpassing Bach and Handel in this respect. Just listen to his most famous aria:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H--Z9UzQYE

But I expect most people only know this music by him (and probably don't know who its composer is cry) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDftL6sfVI0

- which is a hymn adapted from the 'Alleluia' from one of his verse anthems:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDyYvbkNzEA


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: "Older" than Bach [Re: Tech-key] #2862364
06/24/19 03:04 PM
06/24/19 03:04 PM
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LarryK Online content
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Originally Posted by Tech-key
Totally get you on this! I tend to romanticise history too. That’s how classical music interested me in the first place. Other than, of course, Für Elise wink

My oldest would be Minuet in A Minor, by Johann Kreiger (1651-1735). This link says it was published in 1697. It’s a beautiful, little piece. A bit melancholic. Learnt it very recently, and I’ve been playing it non-stop since. Though in my own clumsy way, haha.

Edit: You got me curious enough to google for the oldest surviving keyboard music. Also, you can try something by Jean-Baptiste Lully (1632-1687).

Originally Posted by Tech-key
Totally get you on this! I tend to romanticise history too. That’s how classical music interested me in the first place. Other than, of course, Für Elise wink

My oldest would be Minuet in A Minor, by Johann Kreiger (1651-1735). This link says it was published in 1697. It’s a beautiful, little piece. A bit melancholic. Learnt it very recently, and I’ve been playing it non-stop since. Though in my own clumsy way, haha.

Edit: You got me curious enough to google for the oldest surviving keyboard music. Also, you can try something by Jean-Baptiste Lully (1632-1687).


Hey, I play that little Minuet by Krieger! My teacher pulled it out of some Russian book of piano repertoire. Thanks for posting that link.


Yamaha P-515, Pianoteq Standard 6
Re: "Older" than Bach [Re: bennevis] #2862365
06/24/19 03:08 PM
06/24/19 03:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 377
India
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Originally Posted by bennevis

I played a few keyboard pieces by England's greatest composer, Henry Purcell (1659-1695), when I was a student - from Denes Agay's volume of Easy Classics to Moderns, like this simple but sad minuet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhiZpbsjNeY


I have this exact one in a different book I've got. I like it a lot! Plus, it's in my favourite key (as of now).

Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Tech-key
Totally get you on this! I tend to romanticise history too. That’s how classical music interested me in the first place. Other than, of course, Für Elise wink

My oldest would be Minuet in A Minor, by Johann Kreiger (1651-1735). This link says it was published in 1697. It’s a beautiful, little piece. A bit melancholic. Learnt it very recently, and I’ve been playing it non-stop since. Though in my own clumsy way, haha.

Edit: You got me curious enough to google for the oldest surviving keyboard music. Also, you can try something by Jean-Baptiste Lully (1632-1687).


Hey, I play that little Minuet by Krieger! My teacher pulled it out of some Russian book of piano repertoire. Thanks for posting that link.



The video in that link plays it so beautifully! I think I'll have to re-learn this one laugh

Last edited by Tech-key; 06/24/19 03:15 PM.
Re: "Older" than Bach [Re: Animisha] #2862376
06/24/19 04:03 PM
06/24/19 04:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,007
Canada
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Pythagoras, 6th century BC, studied the frequency ratio of different pitch and from that came the modern music scale.



"The piano keys are black and white but they sound like a million colors in your mind.”
– Maria Cristina

Re: "Older" than Bach [Re: Animisha] #2862378
06/24/19 04:08 PM
06/24/19 04:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 219
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Sidokar Offline
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I have been studying some of the early keyboard compositions,essentially organ, and played pieces from the manuscripts of the Buxheim organ book around 1470. Other than that for my pleasure I often play Sweelinck fantasies and toccatas, Frescobaldi keyboard compositions like his capriccios - early 17th century, also Byrd, Bull pavanes, galliards and grounds, Purcell suites, .... There are a lof of compositions for keyboard in the 17th century that are never/rarely played like Froberger pieces or Samuel Scheidt. Also plenty of compositions for harpsichord by Louis Couperin, D' anglebert, Jacquet de la Guerre which can be played on the piano.

Re: "Older" than Bach [Re: LarryK] #2862479
06/24/19 08:34 PM
06/24/19 08:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 5,140
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
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Originally Posted by LarryK
My teacher pulled it out of some Russian book of piano repertoire.

It wasn't Nikolaev, was it?


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: "Older" than Bach [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2862483
06/24/19 08:45 PM
06/24/19 08:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 628
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LarryK Online content
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
My teacher pulled it out of some Russian book of piano repertoire.

It wasn't Nikolaev, was it?


Hard to say, I can’t read the writing. I should have taken a picture of the cover. I can ask at my next lesson.


Yamaha P-515, Pianoteq Standard 6
Re: "Older" than Bach [Re: LarryK] #2862484
06/24/19 08:48 PM
06/24/19 08:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 5,140
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
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Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
My teacher pulled it out of some Russian book of piano repertoire.

It wasn't Nikolaev, was it?


Hard to say, I can’t read the writing. I should have taken a picture of the cover. I can ask at my next lesson.

I'm sure she will know Nikolaev by name. She herself probably first learned piano as a child from Nikolaev. smile


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: "Older" than Bach [Re: Tech-key] #2862551
06/25/19 12:36 AM
06/25/19 12:36 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 621
Sweden
Animisha Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Animisha  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 621
Sweden
Originally Posted by Tech-key
My oldest would be Minuet in A Minor, by Johann Kreiger (1651-1735). This link says it was published in 1697. It’s a beautiful, little piece. A bit melancholic.

thumb It is already on my list of pieces I plan to play! thumb Now I am looking forward to it so much more. smile


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
Re: "Older" than Bach [Re: LarryK] #2862554
06/25/19 01:04 AM
06/25/19 01:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 621
Sweden
Animisha Offline OP
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Animisha  Offline OP
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Sweden
Originally Posted by LarryK
Hey, I play that little Minuet by Krieger! My teacher pulled it out of some Russian book of piano repertoire.

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
It wasn't Nikolaev, was it?

It is not in Nikolaev's books 1A, 1B and 2.


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
Re: "Older" than Bach [Re: Michael P Walsh] #2862556
06/25/19 01:04 AM
06/25/19 01:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 621
Sweden
Animisha Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Animisha  Offline OP
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Sweden
Originally Posted by Michael P Walsh
You could try the keyboard music of the English virginalists. Probably the most well known book being the Fitzwilliam virginal book. Mid 1500's and onwards. I think Gould was fond of it.

Too difficult for me! smile


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
Re: "Older" than Bach [Re: Sam S] #2862557
06/25/19 01:05 AM
06/25/19 01:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 621
Sweden
Animisha Offline OP
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Animisha  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Sam S
but after 300 years, who's counting?

I do! smile Any beginner's piece you can recommend?


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
Re: "Older" than Bach [Re: Serge88] #2862558
06/25/19 01:09 AM
06/25/19 01:09 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 621
Sweden
Animisha Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Animisha  Offline OP
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Sweden
Originally Posted by Serge88
Pythagoras, 6th century BC, studied the frequency ratio of different pitch and from that came the modern music scale.

Yeah, I kind of blame the Greek for giving us this strange system with the two and three black keys... crazy


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
Re: "Older" than Bach [Re: Sidokar] #2862559
06/25/19 01:10 AM
06/25/19 01:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 621
Sweden
Animisha Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
Animisha  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2018
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Sweden
Originally Posted by Sidokar
I have been studying some of the early keyboard compositions,essentially organ, and played pieces from the manuscripts of the Buxheim organ book around 1470. Other than that for my pleasure I often play Sweelinck fantasies and toccatas, Frescobaldi keyboard compositions like his capriccios - early 17th century, also Byrd, Bull pavanes, galliards and grounds, Purcell suites, .... There are a lof of compositions for keyboard in the 17th century that are never/rarely played like Froberger pieces or Samuel Scheidt. Also plenty of compositions for harpsichord by Louis Couperin, D' anglebert, Jacquet de la Guerre which can be played on the piano.

Sidokar, any beginner pieces you can recommend?


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
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