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the amazing thumb #2862321
06/24/19 12:13 PM
06/24/19 12:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 49
M
Manne janne Offline OP
Full Member
Manne janne  Offline OP
Full Member
M

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 49
I often see things like this: https://bluesjazzpiano.com/major-sixths-scales.html
In this example the thumb is forbidden to play C-D-E. They want you to alternate between finger 1 and 2. I had an organ leson today and my teacher don't see why the the thumbs can't play C-D-E.
The thumb is amazing. Let's look at this example of sixths: A-C, G-B, F#-A. Here my teacher would play C,B, A with the thumb. I agree that this is the best.
The thumb is amazing and you can D-Eb wih only the thumb. You can actually move up from a white key to a black key with the thumb.
I see no reason for "weird" fingerings when playing third intervals.
Do anyone of you really like those "weird" fingerings for the sixths?
My teacher is very good at playing keyboards and he don't seem to like it.
Maybe some people underestimate the thumb.
What is going on?

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Re: the amazing thumb [Re: Manne janne] #2862795
06/26/19 12:04 AM
06/26/19 12:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,263
Queensland, Australia
backto_study_piano Online content
1000 Post Club Member
backto_study_piano  Online Content
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,263
Queensland, Australia
Sorry - I don't play jazz - but I digress with some THUMB use comments which might - or might no - be relevant.

I was taught 60 yrs ago that the thumb was restricted when I started piano lessons - never on a black note - at least almost never. I stuck with that through diploma studies - unless the editor "allowed" it.

Pipe Organ - probably because there is no sustain pedal - I would use thumb much more often to ensure legato.

Nowdays - with arthritis in the base of both thumbs (etc), my piano teacher (Taubman trained) has me using the thumb much more, and if it's the most convenient "finger" and prevents stretching or twisting, it goes on a black note, no questions asked.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: the amazing thumb [Re: Manne janne] #2863058
06/26/19 04:29 PM
06/26/19 04:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 932
Santa Fe, NM
AaronSF Offline
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AaronSF  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 932
Santa Fe, NM
Seems to me the fingering on the example you provide (of sixths) is aiming for as much legato as is possible. It's difficult, to be sure. I'd think it would be even more important on the organ or harpsichord where contorted fingering is often the only way to achieve a legato line as there is no sustaining pedal like on the piano.


August Förster 215
Re: the amazing thumb [Re: Manne janne] #2863176
06/27/19 12:49 AM
06/27/19 12:49 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 143
USA
S
Sweelinck Offline
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Sweelinck  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 143
USA
Organ technique is different from piano technique. A thumb slide to an adjacent note is a standard organ technique. Organ tone is much less sensitive to how the key is pressed than piano tone (electro-pneumatic actions would have zero effect), and easier to get a legato handoff.


Login name is a tribute to Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck, arguably the historically first great keyboard virtuoso.
Re: the amazing thumb [Re: Manne janne] #2863178
06/27/19 12:55 AM
06/27/19 12:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 143
USA
S
Sweelinck Offline
Full Member
Sweelinck  Offline
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S

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 143
USA
But I should have added that the finger alternation is preferred on the organ when it is feasible.


Login name is a tribute to Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck, arguably the historically first great keyboard virtuoso.
Re: the amazing thumb [Re: Manne janne] #2864783
07/01/19 01:58 PM
07/01/19 01:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 131
Connecticut, USA
MichaelJK Offline

Full Member
MichaelJK  Offline

Full Member

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 131
Connecticut, USA
Originally Posted by Manne janne
I often see things like this: https://bluesjazzpiano.com/major-sixths-scales.html
In this example the thumb is forbidden to play C-D-E. They want you to alternate between finger 1 and 2. I had an organ leson today and my teacher don't see why the the thumbs can't play C-D-E.


The first example there actually has a repeated thumb right near the beginning. But it looks like in general, they are trying to make the outer voices super-legato. It might be worth practicing as an exercise, even if you don't play that way normally.

Quote

I see no reason for "weird" fingerings when playing third intervals.
Do anyone of you really like those "weird" fingerings for the sixths?
My teacher is very good at playing keyboards and he don't seem to like it.
Maybe some people underestimate the thumb.
What is going on?


I try to avoid "weird" fingerings. I have no problem repeating the thumb like that, or playing thumb on black keys, or whatever. Focus on the bigger structure in the music, and try to let the fingering take care of itself.


Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

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