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Re: What about a dealer that doesn't recondition their pianos? [Re: PianoWVBob] #2861361 06/21/19 04:48 PM
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Can everyone just cool off a little and keep this thread on track for me?

I get that folks get heated over things but I'd rather not turn this into an argument.

If anyone has experience with the Kawai UST-8 or 9 I'd love to hear how you feel about it.

Same with Seiler and Charles Walter; those are the three that have been mentioned to me by the dealers I'm going to see.

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Re: What about a dealer that doesn't recondition their pianos? [Re: PianoWVBob] #2861366 06/21/19 05:03 PM
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Sorry Bob I really do want you to find the right piano
for you !
Talking brands Seiler is a really great brand with a long
history. The Charles Walter is also highly regarded here.

Re: What about a dealer that doesn't recondition their pianos? [Re: Lady Bird] #2861369 06/21/19 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Sorry Bob I really do want you to find the right piano
for you !
Talking brands Seiler is a really great brand with a long
history. The Charles Walter is also highly regarded here.

No problem!

I'm glad that both of those are so highly regarded!

The shop also mentioned that the Seiler has a really nice action and YT videos say the same thing. Apparently the sound is really nice also, much different than Yamaha.

Re: What about a dealer that doesn't recondition their pianos? [Re: PianoWVBob] #2861380 06/21/19 05:50 PM
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There are many brands though that are highly regarded including Chinese pianos.
Do you know anything about the price of the Seiler
or the Charles Walter?

Re: What about a dealer that doesn't recondition their pianos? [Re: Lady Bird] #2861384 06/21/19 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
There are many brands though that are highly regarded including Chinese pianos.
Do you know anything about the price of the Seiler
or the Charles Walter?


Only that when I told him my max price was about $3,500 he said "these two are in your price range" so I'm assuming that price or under.

Re: What about a dealer that doesn't recondition their pianos? [Re: PianoWVBob] #2861404 06/21/19 07:18 PM
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When they are new these 2 are highly priced........
Have you looked up Brand Profiles on Piano Buyer.
These are all new pianos so the prices can be quite
shocking.
There is good reading about various brands however.


.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 06/21/19 07:20 PM. Reason: Missing word
Re: What about a dealer that doesn't recondition their pianos? [Re: Lady Bird] #2861445 06/21/19 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
When they are new these 2 are highly priced........
Have you looked up Brand Profiles on Piano Buyer.
These are all new pianos so the prices can be quite
shocking.
There is good reading about various brands however.


.

I ordered a copy of the piano bluebook, i havent received it yet

Re: What about a dealer that doesn't recondition their pianos? [Re: PianoWVBob] #2861510 06/22/19 06:31 AM
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Is the paper version different from what you can get on the Piano Blue Book online site?

Also, Bob, I meant to ask you, you wrote about telling a dealer you were wanting used pianos that were “institutional” — what do you mean by that? Pianos that were used in schools or something else?


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Re: What about a dealer that doesn't recondition their pianos? [Re: ShiroKuro] #2861514 06/22/19 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
Is the paper version different from what you can get on the Piano Blue Book online site?


No idea.
Quote
Also, Bob, I meant to ask you, you wrote about telling a dealer you were wanting used pianos that were “institutional” — what do you mean by that? Pianos that were used in schools or something else?


Yes, exactly that.

Last edited by PianoWVBob; 06/22/19 06:44 AM.
Re: What about a dealer that doesn't recondition their pianos? [Re: PianoWVBob] #2861516 06/22/19 07:05 AM
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Just to add to that, I wanted one because they are built to take abuse, beefier frame, beefier foot pedal levers, etc. They hold tuning well...etc.

Re: What about a dealer that doesn't recondition their pianos? [Re: PianoWVBob] #2861526 06/22/19 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by PianoWVBob
Just to add to that, I wanted one because they are built to take abuse, beefier frame, beefier foot pedal levers, etc. They hold tuning well...etc.

Pianos that were used in schools and institutions are specifically chosen because they can take a lot of abuse. When they do become available for resale they have quite a few battle scars and are quite beat up overall. It sounds like you want a piano that’s a popular choice for institutions but in fact was owned “by a little old lady who only played church hymns on Sunday morning.” Those can be challenging to find. The cool thing is makes and models used in schools because of their durability are very popular with new piano buyers because “we had Yamaha U1s for practice in college so that’s what we’ll get for our home”.
While you’re waiting for your piano shopping days, you can read the other piano company’s profiles in The Piano Buyer by Larry Fine. Companies known for steady durable pianos usually highlight that in the profile.
**Now you have a whole fan club waiting for your shopping trip. You might just have to make a film of your adventure.


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Re: What about a dealer that doesn't recondition their pianos? [Re: j&j] #2861544 06/22/19 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by j&j

**Now you have a whole fan club waiting for your shopping trip. You might just have to make a film of your adventure.


This!! smile

As to institutional pianos, I would add to j&j's comment about them being "quite beat up overall" -- namely, you want to be very wary of a piano used in a school practice room that has been played to death, almost literally. Although, if you're looking pianos that have had significant work done on them, this is less of a concern.

But in any case, I think several of us have discussed earlier the importance for you to play some new pianos and pianos way out of your budget. If you're planning to buy a school piano, this is doubly important. If you can play a new upright piano, and then sit down and play a school piano, I think you will be able to tell if the school piano is in good shape or not. You want to look for notes that sound dead, keys that feel like they bottom out etc. If the used piano doesn't have those issues, then you probably don't have to worry so much about it having been a school piano.

Also, don't forget that you can ask the salesperson to play for you, and you could have him/her play on a few different pianos. Stand back and listen and compare, I am sure you'll be able to notice if a piano has been "played to death."

As to what my opinion is based on, I am a university professor (not in a music-related field) and I have played a lot of pianos in university practice rooms. Most of them have been pianos I would not want to buy. As you probably remember, I'm shopping for a grand, and I've let some tuners and techs in the area know so that they can share info with me if they have any. A few weeks back, I got a call about a university thatis in the process of switching all its pianos to Steinways and so over the next few months will be selling off all of the pianos they currently have. I told the tech that I didn't want to even look at any pianos that had been used in practice rooms, but I would look at any faculty pianos and any pianos used for other purposes. (This is a location I'd have a bit of a drive to get to as well, so basically I'm not making the drive just to look at practice room instruments). Thus far, the only ones up for sale are from practice rooms.

Which is a lot of words to say: be wary of institutional pianos. smile

Last edited by ShiroKuro; 06/22/19 08:42 AM.

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Re: What about a dealer that doesn't recondition their pianos? [Re: PianoWVBob] #2861572 06/22/19 09:46 AM
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Ok...understood.

I CAN get a new one though if the price is right. That's not ALL I was looking for, I hope I didn't give that impression, I just meant I would not have a problem with a plain jane institutional model rather than something ornate, not that I was specifically looking for pianos coming out of schools.

Re: What about a dealer that doesn't recondition their pianos? [Re: PianoWVBob] #2861607 06/22/19 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by PianoWVBob
Just to add to that, I wanted one because they are built to take abuse, beefier frame, beefier foot pedal levers, etc. They hold tuning well...etc.


The catch is, they tend to've been used in institutions - some of the toughest - at least greatest usage of any instruments.

Re: What about a dealer that doesn't recondition their pianos? [Re: tend to rush] #2861610 06/22/19 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by tend to rush
Originally Posted by PianoWVBob
Just to add to that, I wanted one because they are built to take abuse, beefier frame, beefier foot pedal levers, etc. They hold tuning well...etc.


The catch is, they tend to've been used in institutions - some of the toughest - at least greatest usage of any instruments.

Yes, I understand that, but I'm also thinking new too.

This wasn't my only desire, just that I mentioned it.

Re: What about a dealer that doesn't recondition their pianos? [Re: PianoWVBob] #2861621 06/22/19 11:05 AM
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Institutional models are generally the same as the corresponding home model internally. The differences are in the cases: legs attached to the body at the bottom, for instance. A lot of people want that, even for home use. Also, they may be a little cheaper initially, because so many are made for institutions.


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Re: What about a dealer that doesn't recondition their pianos? [Re: BDB] #2861623 06/22/19 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by BDB
Institutional models are generally the same as the corresponding home model internally. The differences are in the cases: legs attached to the body at the bottom, for instance. A lot of people want that, even for home use. Also, they may be a little cheaper initially, because so many are made for institutions.

Yes, and rubber casters for moving, an extra back post or two, etc. Again...it was just a remark made by a noob...things might change 180 degrees after I see a few and play and get the lay of the land...at this point, I don't have any good idea of what I want or what's best for me.

it's tough being an empty bucket smile

Re: What about a dealer that doesn't recondition their pianos? [Re: PianoWVBob] #2861655 06/22/19 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by PianoWVBob
Ok...understood.

I CAN get a new one though if the price is right. That's not ALL I was looking for, I hope I didn't give that impression, I just meant I would not have a problem with a plain jane institutional model rather than something ornate, not that I was specifically looking for pianos coming out of schools.


Ahh, that makes sense! If you're budget is somewhat flexible, I suspect you'll be able to get a very nice, good quality, not-very-old used upright without needing to specifically purchase an institutional piano. It's when someone has a super tight, low budget but wants very high quality that things become difficult.

Quote
it's tough being an empty bucket


I think you're doing a great job!! Pianos are complex, and there's an overwhelming amount of info online, so it's a lot to wade through.

Oh, btw, you'll have to let us know if any of the dealers you talk to mention PW. When I visited a dealer two weeks ago, he brought up the internet (of his own accord, I didn't mention anything about it) and then sort of bad-mouthed PW, calling it toxic IIRC. He was otherwise very good and his shop seems reputable, so I won't hold it against him. But he would probably not say things like that if he knew that I've been a member of PW for 15 years and think it's one of the best places on the internet! laugh

Last edited by ShiroKuro; 06/22/19 11:41 AM.

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Re: What about a dealer that doesn't recondition their pianos? [Re: PianoWVBob] #2861658 06/22/19 11:54 AM
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The Yamaha P22 (institutional )can be a very good piano.

Re: What about a dealer that doesn't recondition their pianos? [Re: Lady Bird] #2861666 06/22/19 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
The Yamaha P22 (institutional )can be a very good piano.

Thank you!

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