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Trying to figure out upright options in the 2-3k range - NYC
#2861234 06/21/19 10:27 AM
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Hi!

I'm newly in the market for an upright digital under 3k. Unfortunately, I don't own a car and don't have that many accessible dealers around me with wide selections (I'm in NYC.)

I was originally looking at the Roland HP603, HP605, Kawai CA48, CA58, CN27, CN37, Yamaha YDP-184 or CLP625. I recently learned about the CN29 and CN39 which will hopefully be available to try soon. I was also hoping to try Roland HP704 or LX705 since the HP603/5 is discontinued, but I have no idea what sort of prices I'd be looking at.

I've gone to Sam Ash, Guitar Center, and Frank & Camille's West. I haven't been to Faust Harrison yet because I'm not sure I want a Yamaha after trying a few of them. One Sam Ash had a CA48 (approx 2.1k) and HP605 (approx 3k) + many Yamahas, Frank & Camille's had a Kawai CN37 (approx 2.5k) and CA58 (approx 3k.) After calling around to other Sam Ash stores, Costa Piano in Garden City, and Music Den in NJ, I'm not able to find any of the newer Roland models. One has an old 603 that's priced at 3k, which is what Sam Ash is selling their 605 for.... so I'm not going to bother making that trip.

Should I give up on Roland at this point? Should I give Yamaha another chance? I was mostly unimpressed by the sound on the Yamahas vs. the CA48 or HP605 when I was trying them in the same room. I definitely like the action on the CA58 better than the CA48, but I surprisingly liked the CN37 action a bit more than the CA58 one (though the sound on the CA58 is better.) CA58 felt a bit mechanical compared to CN37. I also really liked the HP605 but I'm not sure if I should be dropping 3k on a discontinued model like that (maybe I can negotiate a bit...)

Open to trying to find any other models I may have overlooked! Right now I think I'm between that one HP605, waiting for the CN29/39, the CN37 if 39 is too expensive, or the CA58.

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Re: Trying to figure out upright options in the 2-3k range - NYC
nutellaphant #2861243 06/21/19 10:52 AM
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Just to add more confusion...have you tried any of the Roland FP-series slab pianos? I think you can get a "furniture style" piano rack with 3 pedals for the FP-30, 60, and 90 models that will look somewhat similar to the Kawai CN models.

I still use my FP-30, which I think sounds great and has nice action. I bought mine online from Kraft music, and they were very responsive to questions I had. Might be worth a look, too.

Re: Trying to figure out upright options in the 2-3k range - NYC
nutellaphant #2861244 06/21/19 10:53 AM
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Sorry, just saw you specifically said "upright" blush

Last edited by pathguy; 06/21/19 10:53 AM.
Re: Trying to figure out upright options in the 2-3k range - NYC
nutellaphant #2861245 06/21/19 10:55 AM
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I was considering the FP-30 at some point early on when I thought I was going to stick to a 1k budget (ha.) I tried the F140R too and was really unhappy with the action. I can't remember if I tried the FP-30.... I know I tried some of the cheaper models at Sam Ash/Guitar Center and wasn't happy with most of them.

Re: Trying to figure out upright options in the 2-3k range - NYC
nutellaphant #2861267 06/21/19 11:48 AM
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For Yamaha ... skip the CLP625 and CLP635.

But the CLP645 is in your $2000-$3000 range. My Sam Ash has it at around $2800 ... but you could offer less.

Re: Trying to figure out upright options in the 2-3k range - NYC
nutellaphant #2861273 06/21/19 12:16 PM
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It seems like none of the shops here in NYC are listing their pianos below online prices, but I'll see what I can find.

Re: Trying to figure out upright options in the 2-3k range - NYC
nutellaphant #2861276 06/21/19 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by nutellaphant
I'm newly in the market for an upright digital under 3k. Unfortunately, I don't own a car and don't have that many accessible dealers around me with wide selections (I'm in NYC.)
Sad to hear that. A few short years ago, NYC was packed with music stores and studios.

Most have disappeared as internet piracy killed the music industry and that silly 0% sales tax subsidy to internet companies only killed retailers.

Re: Trying to figure out upright options in the 2-3k range - NYC
newer player #2861279 06/21/19 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by newer player
Originally Posted by nutellaphant
I'm newly in the market for an upright digital under 3k. Unfortunately, I don't own a car and don't have that many accessible dealers around me with wide selections (I'm in NYC.)
Sad to hear that. A few short years ago, NYC was packed with music stores and studios.

Most have disappeared as internet piracy killed the music industry and that silly 0% sales tax subsidy to internet companies only killed retailers.


I remember! I've lived here my whole life, the piano I grew up playing was from the old Steinway showroom, I used to buy my sheet music at Colony...life is different now.

Re: Trying to figure out upright options in the 2-3k range - NYC
nutellaphant #2861280 06/21/19 12:31 PM
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Hi just FYI I just purchased a CSP-150 for $2900 and was also offered a new Clavinova CLP-645 for $2900 at my local store. Not sure you can get it at that price, but hey - both are leaps and bounds better than a CLP-625 and probably anything you mentioned.


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Re: Trying to figure out upright options in the 2-3k range - NYC
vara411 #2861285 06/21/19 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by vara411
Hi just FYI I just purchased a CSP-150 for $2900 and was also offered a new Clavinova CLP-645 for $2900 at my local store. Not sure you can get it at that price, but hey - both are leaps and bounds better than a CLP-625 and probably anything you mentioned.


I'm going to head to Faust this afternoon (the lone Yamaha dealer I can visit aside from Sam Ash) to see what prices they can offer. They have it listed for $3.5k online so I'm not very hopeful. I feel like I'm going crazy when I read about people finding prices way lower than the MSRP at their dealers. Everything I've seen around here is either the same as or higher than the MSRP and then they offer me the online price as a "deal."

Last edited by nutellaphant; 06/21/19 12:40 PM.
Re: Trying to figure out upright options in the 2-3k range - NYC
nutellaphant #2861300 06/21/19 01:31 PM
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I've been to Faust twice in the last week. I am looking at different models (The Avant Grande), but I can say that their internet prices look similar to the store tags. They didn't offer any deals up front so I think if one were to bargain, you'd need to make the first move.

I had a different experience at the Kawai dealer who offered a deal up front. Not a great one, but he was more proactive.

I will be interested to hear about your experience there.


Originally Posted by nutellaphant
[quote=vara411

I'm going to head to Faust this afternoon (the lone Yamaha dealer I can visit aside from Sam Ash) to see what prices they can offer. They have it listed for $3.5k online so I'm not very hopeful. I feel like I'm going crazy when I read about people finding prices way lower than the MSRP at their dealers. Everything I've seen around here is either the same as or higher than the MSRP and then they offer me the online price as a "deal."

Re: Trying to figure out upright options in the 2-3k range - NYC
Snicklefritz #2861303 06/21/19 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Snicklefritz

I've been to Faust twice in the last week. I am looking at different models (The Avant Grande), but I can say that their internet prices look similar to the store tags. They didn't offer any deals up front so I think if one were to bargain, you'd need to make the first move.

I had a different experience at the Kawai dealer who offered a deal up front. Not a great one, but he was more proactive.

I will be interested to hear about your experience there.



Which Kawai dealer?

Re: Trying to figure out upright options in the 2-3k range - NYC
nutellaphant #2861311 06/21/19 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by nutellaphant
Originally Posted by vara411
Hi just FYI I just purchased a CSP-150 for $2900 and was also offered a new Clavinova CLP-645 for $2900 at my local store. Not sure you can get it at that price, but hey - both are leaps and bounds better than a CLP-625 and probably anything you mentioned.


I'm going to head to Faust this afternoon (the lone Yamaha dealer I can visit aside from Sam Ash) to see what prices they can offer. They have it listed for $3.5k online so I'm not very hopeful. I feel like I'm going crazy when I read about people finding prices way lower than the MSRP at their dealers. Everything I've seen around here is either the same as or higher than the MSRP and then they offer me the online price as a "deal."


I've purchased two pianos and haggled over a third in the past 6 months. Here's what I've learned: MSRP means absolutely nothing, and internet prices are NOT the bottom price. Any store that offers you the online price or higher is ripping you off. My local store saw I was a serious buyer, so we had a bit of a back-and-forth. He finally offered me $3000 price for the CSP-150. I told him I'd think about it. I called back later and gave him an offer of $2900 and he accepted.

Just tell the guy/gal straight up: "Look, $3K is the absolute top of my budget. I really want THIS piano. If you can sell it to me at that price, I'll take it."

He might counter with $3200 or something. If he does, I'd say it's still a good buy for either the CSP-150 or CLP-645... (BTW they're different pianos. The CSP-150 is a pretty amazing instrument with lots of bells and whistles (follow-the-lights, arranger feature)... but if you already know how to play and have no use for the lights or arranger function (styles) then I say go for the CLP-645 as it can also connect to the iPad and has upgraded WOODEN keys.)

Last edited by vara411; 06/21/19 02:01 PM.

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Re: Trying to figure out upright options in the 2-3k range - NYC
vara411 #2861316 06/21/19 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by vara411

I've purchased two pianos and haggled over a third in the past 6 months. Here's what I've learned: MSRP means absolutely nothing, and internet prices are NOT the bottom price. Any store that offers you the online price or higher is ripping you off. My local store saw I was a serious buyer, so we had a bit of a back-and-forth. He finally offered me $3000 price for the CSP-150. I told him I'd think about it. I called back later and gave him an offer of $2900 and he accepted.

Just tell the guy/gal straight up: "Look, $3K is the absolute top of my budget. I really want THIS piano. If you can sell it to me at that price, I'll take it."

He might counter with $3200 or something. If he does, I'd say it's still a good buy for either the CSP-150 or CLP-645... (BTW they're different pianos. The CSP-150 is a pretty amazing instrument with lots of bells and whistles (follow-the-lights, arranger feature)... but if you already know how to play and have no use for the lights or arranger function (styles) then I say go for the CLP-645 as it can also connect to the iPad and has upgraded WOODEN keys.)


Yes, I know MSRP means nothing and that I need to haggle below the Internet price. Nobody is willing to do that in person, yet (I have not gone hard on the negotiating so far, but I had a short back and forth at the Kawai dealer that went nowhere even after telling them my budget was lower and expressing serious interest. Obviously my next step is to make an offer.) I've been haggling with Sam Ash online so I know it's technically possible - they do not have every model I want, though. When you only have a single dealer for each brand accessible in person and they are ripping you off, what else are you supposed to do? I guess I'll have to buy it online in that case.

Re: Trying to figure out upright options in the 2-3k range - NYC
nutellaphant #2861328 06/21/19 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by nutellaphant
Originally Posted by vara411

I've purchased two pianos and haggled over a third in the past 6 months. Here's what I've learned: MSRP means absolutely nothing, and internet prices are NOT the bottom price. Any store that offers you the online price or higher is ripping you off. My local store saw I was a serious buyer, so we had a bit of a back-and-forth. He finally offered me $3000 price for the CSP-150. I told him I'd think about it. I called back later and gave him an offer of $2900 and he accepted.

Just tell the guy/gal straight up: "Look, $3K is the absolute top of my budget. I really want THIS piano. If you can sell it to me at that price, I'll take it."

He might counter with $3200 or something. If he does, I'd say it's still a good buy for either the CSP-150 or CLP-645... (BTW they're different pianos. The CSP-150 is a pretty amazing instrument with lots of bells and whistles (follow-the-lights, arranger feature)... but if you already know how to play and have no use for the lights or arranger function (styles) then I say go for the CLP-645 as it can also connect to the iPad and has upgraded WOODEN keys.)


Yes, I know MSRP means nothing and that I need to haggle below the Internet price. Nobody is willing to do that in person, yet (I have not gone hard on the negotiating so far, but I had a short back and forth at the Kawai dealer that went nowhere even after telling them my budget was lower and expressing serious interest. Obviously my next step is to make an offer.) I've been haggling with Sam Ash online so I know it's technically possible - they do not have every model I want, though. When you only have a single dealer for each brand accessible in person and they are ripping you off, what else are you supposed to do? I guess I'll have to buy it online in that case.



Hmm. Yeah, I guess that's a tough situation. Well, worth a shot.

Also - you mentioned the CLP-625, why not the CLP-635? I'd be surprised if you couldn't hit your budget with that piano, and it's got many more features than the CLP-625 (bigger speakers, Piano Room feature, better UI, more voices)... anyway good luck. Keep us updated!

(BTW I realize I sound like a Yamaha salesman... I like them a lot but I heard the Kawais are great too... we just don't have them in my town.)

Last edited by vara411; 06/21/19 02:48 PM.

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Re: Trying to figure out upright options in the 2-3k range - NYC
vara411 #2861329 06/21/19 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by vara411

Hmm. Yeah, I guess that's a tough situation. Well, worth a shot.

Also - you mentioned the CLP-625, why not the CLP-635? I'd be surprised if you couldn't hit your budget with that piano, and it's got many more features than the CLP-625 (bigger speakers, Piano Room feature, better UI, more voices)... anyway good luck. Keep us updated!

(BTW I realize I sound like a Yamaha salesman... I like them a lot but I heard the Kawais are great too... we just don't have them in my town.)


Oversight on my part - I should have included the CLP-635 too! I'm pretty sold on the CLP-645 features, so hoping I like it in person and that I can get a semblance of a good deal on it if it's my favorite. I imagine I may end up having to pick between CLP-645, Kawai CA58, Kawai CN39, and Roland HP605 all at around 3k or so.

Re: Trying to figure out upright options in the 2-3k range - NYC
nutellaphant #2861385 06/21/19 06:06 PM
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Well sadly I didn't love the CLP-645. I went back to try the Roland HP605 again and still really like it, but they only have the floor model available and weren't giving me a great deal on it (2.8k) - I'm sure I could get them down further, but it probably wouldn't be worth it still given how much foot traffic that store sees and how long it has been there.

Re: Trying to figure out upright options in the 2-3k range - NYC
nutellaphant #2861387 06/21/19 06:20 PM
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Did you end up going to Faust Harrison to try the Yamahas?

Originally Posted by nutellaphant
Well sadly I didn't love the CLP-645. I went back to try the Roland HP605 again and still really like it, but they only have the floor model available and weren't giving me a great deal on it (2.8k) - I'm sure I could get them down further, but it probably wouldn't be worth it still given how much foot traffic that store sees and how long it has been there.

Re: Trying to figure out upright options in the 2-3k range - NYC
Snicklefritz #2861399 06/21/19 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Snicklefritz

Did you end up going to Faust Harrison to try the Yamahas?

Originally Posted by nutellaphant
Well sadly I didn't love the CLP-645. I went back to try the Roland HP605 again and still really like it, but they only have the floor model available and weren't giving me a great deal on it (2.8k) - I'm sure I could get them down further, but it probably wouldn't be worth it still given how much foot traffic that store sees and how long it has been there.



I did! I tried the 645, 635, CSP-150, NU1X, and one other (can't remember, it was too expensive anyway.) Had a nice time, but didn't like the action enough to pursue any of them further.

Re: Trying to figure out upright options in the 2-3k range - NYC
nutellaphant #2861401 06/21/19 07:07 PM
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For me as well I'm finding that the action is going to be what likely seals the deal.


Originally Posted by nutellaphant
Originally Posted by Snicklefritz

Did you end up going to Faust Harrison to try the Yamahas?

Originally Posted by nutellaphant
Well sadly I didn't love the CLP-645. I went back to try the Roland HP605 again and still really like it, but they only have the floor model available and weren't giving me a great deal on it (2.8k) - I'm sure I could get them down further, but it probably wouldn't be worth it still given how much foot traffic that store sees and how long it has been there.



I did! I tried the 645, 635, CSP-150, NU1X, and one other (can't remember, it was too expensive anyway.) Had a nice time, but didn't like the action enough to pursue any of them further.

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