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Clementi Sonatina Op 36 No 2 Metronome settings #2860091
06/18/19 03:42 PM
06/18/19 03:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 246
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oneilt130 Offline OP

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oneilt130  Offline OP

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Hi all,

I am working on Clementi Sonatina Op 36 No 2 and wanted to see if anyone had suggestions on the metronome settings for the different movements. I have the first two to the point where I can play them consistently at a set pace but I am not sure what the desired speed should be. My copy of the music goes back about 40+ years (book from my youth) and doesn't list suggestions for the tempo using a metronome. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I am trying to even out my pace, in particular for the 1st movement, and for me it helps to use a metronome.

Thanks.


Yamaha NU1X
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Re: Clementi Sonatina Op 36 No 2 Metronome settings [Re: oneilt130] #2860184
06/18/19 07:48 PM
06/18/19 07:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,314
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malkin Offline
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malkin  Offline
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Get it even, and keep it even.
Then speed it up. Evenly.


Learner
Re: Clementi Sonatina Op 36 No 2 Metronome settings [Re: oneilt130] #2860212
06/18/19 08:47 PM
06/18/19 08:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,398
Australia
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earlofmar Online content
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this was a hard one for me to learn but my sheet music states

1st movement = Allegretto
2nd movement = Allegretto
3rd movement = Vivace

good luck


Following Trying to follow the Ling Ling 40 hour method

Kawai K8 & Kawai Novus NV10


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Re: Clementi Sonatina Op 36 No 2 Metronome settings [Re: oneilt130] #2860505
06/19/19 03:10 PM
06/19/19 03:10 PM
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Posts: 246
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oneilt130 Offline OP

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Thanks for the advice. I am definitely trying to play it even and keep it even while speeding it up. smile I like to have some suggestions on how to use the metronome with a piece if for no other reason than to have an established goal. With Clementi's Op 36 No 1 1st Mvt the study group had some discussion on this at it was recommended to use the setting that a half note would be between 80-100. That was very helpful, timing the first movement to a beat per quarter note was just not working for me.

Here with Op 36 No 2 1st movement with a signature of 2/4 I am finding again that setting the beat to the quarter note isn't quite working. I may just end up with one beat per half note and using the reference point of the start of the measures to see how I am doing keeping pace. Also I see that both the 1st and 2nd movements are Allegretto but the YouTube videos I have watched don't seem to have them at the same tempo, at least that's what my ear can discern from watching it.


Yamaha NU1X
Re: Clementi Sonatina Op 36 No 2 Metronome settings [Re: oneilt130] #2860516
06/19/19 03:51 PM
06/19/19 03:51 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,684
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
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Victoria, BC
Originally Posted by oneilt130
[...]Also I see that both the 1st and 2nd movements are Allegretto but the YouTube videos I have watched don't seem to have them at the same tempo, at least that's what my ear can discern from watching it.


Remember that tempo designations often are as much an indication of mood or character as they are of tempo. Any such designation can have a considerable range, within reason. What Allegretto may mean to one person may be differently interpreted by another, yet both can be acceptable. From one movement to another in a Sonata or Sonatina I would not want to play them at the same tempo even though they may have the same tempo designation. Let the character of the music decide how you interpret Allegretto, but try not to repeat the same tempo in the second movement that you established in the first.

Regards,


BruceD
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Estonia 190
Re: Clementi Sonatina Op 36 No 2 Metronome settings [Re: oneilt130] #2860786
06/20/19 09:15 AM
06/20/19 09:15 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 226
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Sidokar Offline
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Sidokar  Offline
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Originally Posted by oneilt130
Thanks for the advice. I am definitely trying to play it even and keep it even while speeding it up. smile I like to have some suggestions on how to use the metronome with a piece if for no other reason than to have an established goal. With Clementi's Op 36 No 1 1st Mvt the study group had some discussion on this at it was recommended to use the setting that a half note would be between 80-100. That was very helpful, timing the first movement to a beat per quarter note was just not working for me.

Here with Op 36 No 2 1st movement with a signature of 2/4 I am finding again that setting the beat to the quarter note isn't quite working. I may just end up with one beat per half note and using the reference point of the start of the measures to see how I am doing keeping pace. Also I see that both the 1st and 2nd movements are Allegretto but the YouTube videos I have watched don't seem to have them at the same tempo, at least that's what my ear can discern from watching it.



To determine the beat, you have to look at which level is the lowest rythmic element; in this case the first movement is essentially at the 16th notes; so the pulse is at the 8th level and the beat at the quarter which is consistent with the 2/4 signature. In the opus 36/1 most of the 1st movement is written at the 8th level so the beat was at the half note.

In terms of speed I would go for a quarter note in the range of 110-120. But you can slow down (or up) if that is part of your view of the piece.

Re: Clementi Sonatina Op 36 No 2 Metronome settings [Re: Sidokar] #2860963
06/20/19 04:11 PM
06/20/19 04:11 PM
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Posts: 246
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oneilt130 Offline OP

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Originally Posted by Sidokar


To determine the beat, you have to look at which level is the lowest rythmic element; in this case the first movement is essentially at the 16th notes; so the pulse is at the 8th level and the beat at the quarter which is consistent with the 2/4 signature. In the opus 36/1 most of the 1st movement is written at the 8th level so the beat was at the half note.

In terms of speed I would go for a quarter note in the range of 110-120. But you can slow down (or up) if that is part of your view of the piece.


Thanks for the response. You are venturing into territory unknown to me but I find interesting. I get that the lowest rhythmic element is the 16th note, What do you mean when you say the pulse is at the 8th level? Is that essentially meaning the pulse is at the eight note so then the beat is at the quarter note? I am finding the analysis of pieces interesting but without a teacher I am struggling at times with it. In this case do you take the lowest rhythmic element and double it to get the pulse and then double that to get the beat?

Looking at the 2nd movement is the lowest rhythmic element again the 16th note so the pulse would be the eight and the beat the quarter note? That would seem to make sense as it puts the beat on the eighth note before the 16th that seems to be the consistent. (BTW I am probably mangling the terms here, this is a whole new way of looking at pieces as opposed the fingers as pistons approach I have been taking.)

Thanks again for your help.


Yamaha NU1X
Re: Clementi Sonatina Op 36 No 2 Metronome settings [Re: oneilt130] #2861118
06/21/19 03:54 AM
06/21/19 03:54 AM
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Sidokar Offline
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Sidokar  Offline
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Well it is a little more complicated. Most pieces have 2 to 3 rythmic levels, occasionally a 4th one. The ratio between the levels depends if you are in duple, triple, simple or coumpound time. For example in 6/8 you will have the beat at the dotted quarter in duple time and 3 pulses by beat in 8th. The next level can 2 x 16th by pulse but a composer can also decide to use triplets.

For now the important is to understand how the piece is rythmically constructed and the character associated. For example the second allegreto is in triple time 3/4 and is using constant dotted rythme. The 16th are used essentially as accelerators to keep the flow going between the 8th. So the piece is like a light dancing movement that must be played at a moderate speed but not too fast to keep its light character. I wouls say around 75 to 80 quarters.

Re: Clementi Sonatina Op 36 No 2 Metronome settings [Re: Sidokar] #2861138
06/21/19 05:53 AM
06/21/19 05:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 246
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oneilt130 Offline OP

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oneilt130  Offline OP

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Originally Posted by Sidokar
Well it is a little more complicated. Most pieces have 2 to 3 rythmic levels, occasionally a 4th one. The ratio between the levels depends if you are in duple, triple, simple or coumpound time. For example in 6/8 you will have the beat at the dotted quarter in duple time and 3 pulses by beat in 8th. The next level can 2 x 16th by pulse but a composer can also decide to use triplets.

For now the important is to understand how the piece is rythmically constructed and the character associated. For example the second allegreto is in triple time 3/4 and is using constant dotted rythme. The 16th are used essentially as accelerators to keep the flow going between the 8th. So the piece is like a light dancing movement that must be played at a moderate speed but not too fast to keep its light character. I wouls say around 75 to 80 quarters.


Thanks again Sidokar! This is a bit over my head at this point but I am trying to catch up on theory.


Yamaha NU1X

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