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Audio interface with MIDI for iPad? #2859922
06/18/19 09:00 AM
06/18/19 09:00 AM
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CyberGene Online content OP
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I need an audio interface for my iPad that will allow stereo line-in recording from my reface CP and also has MIDI so that I can also control synths. I thought there were thousands of such interfaces but alas there aren't shocked The vast majority of audio interfaces provide only mono instrument recording capabilities for guitars but not stereo signals. There are some that offer line-in stereo recording but no MIDI, e.g. Zoom U-22. The more expensive brothers U-24 and U-44 offer MIDI but no stereo line-in... And it's always like that. What I like about the Zooms is they can also be battery powered because to my understanding the iPad is intentionally designed to not provide bus power to audio interfaces so the audio interfaces need to be externally powered. Is that actually true? I see there's a newer Camera Connection Kit with USB 3.0 which also has a lightning power socket and I'm wondering whether that power is intended to only charge the iPad and not the device? I really prefer a solution with as few cables and chargers as possible. For instance I can buy the Zoom U-22 and use a powered USB hub that will be connected to the camera connection kit and then connect the USB MIDI signal from the reface to the hub but that's too much devices, cables and chargers... Any advices will be appreciated.

Last edited by CyberGene; 06/18/19 09:01 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
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Re: Audio interface with MIDI for iPad? [Re: CyberGene] #2859958
06/18/19 10:32 AM
06/18/19 10:32 AM
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Can't you use a simple audio Y splitter cable and send the left and right from TRS to channel 1 and channel 2, respectively?

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...ut-3.5mm-trs-to-dual-1-4-inch-ts-10-foot

[Linked Image]

Re: Audio interface with MIDI for iPad? [Re: newer player] #2859966
06/18/19 10:47 AM
06/18/19 10:47 AM
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CyberGene Online content OP
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Originally Posted by newer player
Can't you use a simple audio Y splitter cable and send the left and right from TRS to channel 1 and channel 2, respectively?

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...ut-3.5mm-trs-to-dual-1-4-inch-ts-10-foot

[Linked Image]

I thought that was the solution with the U-44 too, but then I found a user on the Internet who did the same and found out that when monitoring the output of the U-44, the separate inputs were treated as mono signals and each of them was then doubled to both R-L output lines. Think of it as two guitars, the interface will not output one guitar left, other guitar right, but will output them both as mono signal doubled to each stereo channel... I guess that's just some very poor decision made by the Zoom people but there doesn't seem to be a solution so far.

Last edited by CyberGene; 06/18/19 10:48 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Audio interface with MIDI for iPad? [Re: CyberGene] #2859967
06/18/19 10:48 AM
06/18/19 10:48 AM
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This is battery powered with 2 channels and MIDI. It is made in Italy by IKMultimedia. I owned one of their portable synths; I thought it was well built and sounded good.

https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/irigproduo/

[Linked Image]

EDIT- This comes with 2.5mm-to-MIDI cable.

Last edited by newer player; 06/18/19 10:57 AM.
Re: Audio interface with MIDI for iPad? [Re: CyberGene] #2859968
06/18/19 10:51 AM
06/18/19 10:51 AM
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^ That's the other interface which I also researched a lot and read the manual, however it seems it's the same: it treats each mono input as a mono input and will then output the two inputs as doubled mono signal over the stereo output rather than separate channels. Something is totally wrong with the people who design audio interfaces, they have totally neglected keyboard users with external keyboards and stereo output. They all think about guitarists, bassists and vocalists with mono signals frown


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Audio interface with MIDI for iPad? [Re: CyberGene] #2859971
06/18/19 10:56 AM
06/18/19 10:56 AM
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This is the thread where some guy describes the faulty behavior I'm talking about:
zoom-u-44-stereo-input-from-effect-pedal-but-mono-output-from-headphone-jack

I'm not sure if the iRig suffers the same problem, I might have encountered the same description somewhere but can't find it again, I've actually turned over the Internet for the last few days and read hundreds of manuals...

Last edited by CyberGene; 06/18/19 10:56 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Audio interface with MIDI for iPad? [Re: CyberGene] #2859977
06/18/19 11:05 AM
06/18/19 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
This is the thread where some guy describes the faulty behavior I'm talking about:
zoom-u-44-stereo-input-from-effect-pedal-but-mono-output-from-headphone-jack

I'm not sure if the iRig suffers the same problem, I might have encountered the same description somewhere but can't find it again, I've actually turned over the Internet for the last few days and read hundreds of manuals...

Uh oh, could this be another electronics project, although not a very hard one? I wonder if there would be a market for this? Maybe it's something for Kickstarter smile


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Re: Audio interface with MIDI for iPad? [Re: CyberGene] #2859982
06/18/19 11:11 AM
06/18/19 11:11 AM
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You can ping IKMultimedia regarding your onboard mixing question. Also, they may have or be able to upgrade the firmware, so older forum posts/complaints may be resolved.

I had the IKMultimedia UNO synth. At release, they included a slick piece of software that allowed one to control the synth from a computer touchscreen. Both the synth firmware and Windows software had a handful of bugs at release.

But within a few weeks they upgraded both and they killed all the bugs I encountered plus added a few big features requested on the forums. Frankly, the speed and quality of the upgrades was shocking. The Italians can teach us a thing or two about customer service.

Re: Audio interface with MIDI for iPad? [Re: CyberGene] #2860045
06/18/19 01:37 PM
06/18/19 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
^ That's the other interface which I also researched a lot and read the manual, however it seems it's the same: it treats each mono input as a mono input and will then output the two inputs as doubled mono signal over the stereo output rather than separate channels. Something is totally wrong with the people who design audio interfaces, they have totally neglected keyboard users with external keyboards and stereo output. They all think about guitarists, bassists and vocalists with mono signals frown


That's not the hardware's issue. What you're looking is called multi-track recording. You want to pan the inputs. That needs simple mixing capabilities provided by iOS.

Please check the link below:

SOS iOS DAWs

I don't have an ios compatible audio interface but the panning is either becomes available in the iOS settings or in a DAW. GarageBand can probably handle multi-track recording as well.

I wouldn't personally buy a handy-interface. They have so many limitations. I would only buy one if I needed to do some field recordings. At home, I will always buy something that satisfies somewhat professional needs. Steingberg UR242 is really nice. It has a tablet mode and also comes with a built-in DSP which gives you guitar effects as well as reverb etc.

If iOS drivers don't give you the capability to "pan" then there is no audio interface out there that can do it for you. You may need to look after a compact mixer in this scenario.

BTW the only extra wire you're complaining is the power cable/adaptor I guess...

Last edited by Abdol; 06/18/19 01:41 PM.

Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: Audio interface with MIDI for iPad? [Re: CyberGene] #2860131
06/18/19 05:24 PM
06/18/19 05:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,663
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CyberGene Online content OP
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^ Thanks, not sure we’re talking about the same thing though. I can pan each of the two input channels on the iPad when recording. However I want to be able to monitor that sound directly on the interface and not by routing the sound back from the iPad to the interface which will introduce latency. All the interfaces I checked provide direct monitoring on the interface but unfortunately it just doubles each mono signal to both left and right channels of the output.

I think I can live with non-direct monitoring though, depends on the latency. But it’s a bit risky to order an interface only to realize direct monitoring is flawed and non-direct is laggy.

A solution I see so far is to use an analog mixer with USB such as Behringer Q-502. It’s just a regular mixer that sends the mixer output to the USB for recording and also gets two-channel USB input.

Last edited by CyberGene; 06/18/19 05:25 PM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Audio interface with MIDI for iPad? [Re: CyberGene] #2860174
06/18/19 07:31 PM
06/18/19 07:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,258
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I need an audio interface for my iPad that will allow stereo line-in recording from my reface CP...


Remind me, what is the benefit of recording the Reface's sound into the iPad, over simply using an iOS app to produce a similar quality (if not better...) sound?

Or is this more a case of "I bought a Reface CP, therefore I need to find a reason to use its sounds...otherwise my cute little Yamaha is just a cool-looking MIDI controller"?

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Audio interface with MIDI for iPad? [Re: CyberGene] #2860177
06/18/19 07:40 PM
06/18/19 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
^ Thanks, not sure we’re talking about the same thing though. I can pan each of the two input channels on the iPad when recording. However I want to be able to monitor that sound directly on the interface and not by routing the sound back from the iPad to the interface which will introduce latency. All the interfaces I checked provide direct monitoring on the interface but unfortunately it just doubles each mono signal to both left and right channels of the output.

I think I can live with non-direct monitoring though, depends on the latency. But it’s a bit risky to order an interface only to realize direct monitoring is flawed and non-direct is laggy.

A solution I see so far is to use an analog mixer with USB such as Behringer Q-502. It’s just a regular mixer that sends the mixer output to the USB for recording and also gets two-channel USB input.


That's what direct monitoring is called! Your audio interface must have an embedded mixer inside to perform that. With direct monitoring though, you can't sync your VSTs and keyboard. The VST will always have a delay (minor).


Take a look at Zoom F4. It does what you want but doesn't come with MIDI IN/OUT. The best way to figure out what an interface offers is to see its schematic diagram. In F4's user's manual, there is a "pan" on the way to the headphones.

In the diagram of U22 and U24 etc there is no such a thing and you can clearly predict the direct monitoring behavior.

Almost all of the manufacturers provide such diagrams for their audio interfaces.

My 2 cents: Don't buy Behringer.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: Audio interface with MIDI for iPad? [Re: CyberGene] #2860190
06/18/19 07:56 PM
06/18/19 07:56 PM
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CyberGene, you could perhaps circumvent the need for MIDI connectors on the iPad by using a Quiccosound mi.1 (or Yamaha equivalent) Bluetooth MIDI adapter connected to the Reface, then pairing the two wirelessly.

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Audio interface with MIDI for iPad? [Re: CyberGene] #2860255
06/19/19 12:11 AM
06/19/19 12:11 AM
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What about Radial’s Key Largo Keyboard Mixer? It’s a solid pro piece of kit designed for keyboards. Unfortunately, it’s also approx the same price as the Reface CP and while it’s portable, it’s a tiny bit bigger than Reface/iPad portable.

But the Key Largo does everything you want (though I’d check on the stereo headphone output issue). Stereo Line In/Out, 2-channel USB, MIDI DIN plus a stomp pedal.

Link- https://www.radialeng.com/product/key-largo





In this video, Jordan Rudess has the Key Largo setup with a Reface and iPad.




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Re: Audio interface with MIDI for iPad? [Re: Kawai James] #2860263
06/19/19 01:09 AM
06/19/19 01:09 AM
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CyberGene Online content OP
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I need an audio interface for my iPad that will allow stereo line-in recording from my reface CP...


Remind me, what is the benefit of recording the Reface's sound into the iPad, over simply using an iOS app to produce a similar quality (if not better...) sound?

Or is this more a case of "I bought a Reface CP, therefore I need to find a reason to use its sounds...otherwise my cute little Yamaha is just a cool-looking MIDI controller"?

Cheers,
James
x


While that is partially true, I prefer the immediacy of the vintage effects, especially the tape delay, etc through real physical controls where I can manipulate the sound in real time. Not sure iPad virtual instruments are that good too.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Audio interface with MIDI for iPad? [Re: CyberGene] #2860264
06/19/19 01:33 AM
06/19/19 01:33 AM
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P.S. Did I mention the reface CP is finally a Rhodes piano that supports re-pedaling. I’ve been complaining about that in my Kawai DP-s but Kawai never bothered frown And the sampled Rhodes VST-s don’t support re-pedaling either which I guess is also true for iPad ones. Not the biggest deal in the world but is a great reminder of how Yamaha understands how to do a good keyboard smile

Last edited by CyberGene; 06/19/19 01:33 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Audio interface with MIDI for iPad? [Re: CyberGene] #2860278
06/19/19 02:27 AM
06/19/19 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I prefer the immediacy of the vintage effects, especially the tape delay, etc through real physical controls where I can manipulate the sound in real time. Not sure iPad virtual instruments are that good too.


Well, if those three knobs send MIDI CC values, I dare say you could probably assign them to control the effects of an iOS virtual piano. Personally, I can't say I've ever felt the need to adjust tremolo, chorus, or delay while playing - normally I set the the sound up ahead of time, and leave things unchanged for the duration of the song.

Originally Posted by CyberGene
P.S. Did I mention the reface CP is finally a Rhodes piano that supports re-pedaling...


Game changer!

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Audio interface with MIDI for iPad? [Re: Kawai James] #2860283
06/19/19 02:51 AM
06/19/19 02:51 AM
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CyberGene Online content OP
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Originally Posted by Kawai James

Originally Posted by CyberGene
P.S. Did I mention the reface CP is finally a Rhodes piano that supports re-pedaling...


Game changer!

James
x

Well, unfortunately not. Yamaha have always supported Rhodes re-pedaling. It was after I switched to Kawai when I realized they have upped their game by disabling re-pedaling laugh


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Audio interface with MIDI for iPad? [Re: Groove On] #2860311
06/19/19 06:13 AM
06/19/19 06:13 AM
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CyberGene Online content OP
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Originally Posted by Abdol
With direct monitoring though, you can't sync your VSTs and keyboard. The VST will always have a delay (minor).

Almost all of the manufacturers provide such diagrams for their audio interfaces.

My 2 cents: Don't buy Behringer.

Maybe direct monitoring isn't such a big deal anyway. I know the diagrams of the interfaces, I can redraw those of the U24 and U44 from memory already laugh Everyone suggests against Behringer... I guess the quality isn't great but these guys at least know how the things should be designed, for instance the stereo inputs can be either separate channels, or you can only use the left one for mono and the signal will be doubled to the L-R output. That's very intuitive.

Originally Posted by Kawai James
CyberGene, you could perhaps circumvent the need for MIDI connectors on the iPad by using a Quiccosound mi.1 (or Yamaha equivalent) Bluetooth MIDI adapter connected to the Reface, then pairing the two wirelessly.

I don't like Bluetooth MIDI, I already have CME XKey Air 37 with bluetooth and that works mostly for slow chords pads and non-time-critical instruments smile However the latency is too high for pianos.

Originally Posted by Groove On
What about Radial’s Key Largo Keyboard Mixer? It’s a solid pro piece of kit designed for keyboards. Unfortunately, it’s also approx the same price as the Reface CP and while it’s portable, it’s a tiny bit bigger than Reface/iPad portable.

Thanks, I didn't know that, it's exactly what I need! However it's too expensive since I am building a cheap solution for jams with friends.

Thanks to the replies in this thread I may reconsider what I need. Software Rhodes on the iPad isn't entirely out of the question which means I only need MIDI and I can already use the USB to host output of either my reface or the eventual hammer-controller I am considering (Studiologic SL-73). If I need to record the reface into the iPad, I can still do that through the most basic interface (e.g. a U-22) since I can pan the the signal lines in the DAW on the iPad.

And even if I need to output signal from both the iPad and the reface, I can simply feed the stereo out from the iPad into the audio-in of the reface and then just output the mixed signal into monitors or whatever.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Audio interface with MIDI for iPad? [Re: CyberGene] #2860429
06/19/19 12:12 PM
06/19/19 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene

Maybe direct monitoring isn't such a big deal anyway. I know the diagrams of the interfaces, I can redraw those of the U24 and U44 from memory already laugh Everyone suggests against Behringer... I guess the quality isn't great but these guys at least know how the things should be designed, for instance, the stereo inputs can be either separate channels, or you can only use the left one for mono and the signal will be doubled to the L-R output. That's very intuitive.


I think we are mixing the concept of mixers and audio interfaces here which have different applications. The audio interface's headphones output(s) is(are) not like a mixer's outputs. For your purpose, the main output of the interface must be used. The direct monitoring is for input monitoring (this functionality is necessary for the studio recording to isolate the input and assess the recording quality regardless of how it will sound in the "mix"). What you described is not input monitoring for studio recording.

So a mixer is what you should get and with a good mixer, you will have multiple outputs which you can have different mixes for them smile

Oh and by the way you can get better products from other manufacturers if you increase your budget a bit you can get great little digital mixers like this one:

StudioLive AR8 USB

A fridn of mine has this and it's a good "digital mixer" for its price!

Last edited by Abdol; 06/19/19 12:18 PM.

Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
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