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Re: A Recording Project... [Re: PianoYos] #2858589
06/14/19 04:26 PM
06/14/19 04:26 PM
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I only listened to the Valse Sentimentale so far. I thought it was very good. My suggestion would be to avoid a repeated rubato on the dotted eighth note that occurs in the first or second measure. I think that rubato would be effective if done once or twice but it becomes too predictable and cloying if you do it every time that phrase repeats(which is many times).

Re: A Recording Project... [Re: PianoYos] #2858594
06/14/19 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by RogerRL
So maybe I've overstated my position on your recording, I don't know.


Your distaste for the recording has been made quite clear, ha. If I'm being perfectly honest here, I have to admit that I was hoping for a somewhat more positive first response for days worth of work, but...it is a recording project after all, and I actually do value feedback like yours from a purely recording perspective, too. In hindsight...yes, I did get quite carried away with the Debussy - honestly I was amazed at how much you can achieve on just your laptop these days and I couldn't help but play around with all the effects, but I digress...

Luckily I saved copies of my recordings before the Adobe edits, so if you're still curious, here's a not-so-sunken-cathedral Reverie. Personally it sounds a bit too dry for me, especially for Debussy. That being said, what I initially posted was overkill. I imagine there must be a sweet spot with the exact right amount of reverb. And regarding the inconsistency with visuals that you mentioned on YouTube, I'm planning to use all of these pieces in a video showcasing impressionist paintings from the 19th century anyway, so I hope it won't be too much of an issue.

In any case, thank you for bringing this up - I'll be more careful with effects from now on.

Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I only listened to the Valse Sentimentale so far. I thought it was very good. My suggestion would be to avoid a repeated rubato on the dotted eighth note that occurs in the first or second measure. I think that rubato would be effective if done once or twice but it becomes too predictable and cloying if you do it every time that phrase repeats(which is many times).


Thank you! And that's a great suggestion, thank you for that. It'll be going into my "proofreading" notebook! Got a page for every piece I'm recording. I think it would be more poignant if I use the rubato maybe towards the end, or right before a contrasting section. I will play around with it.

Last edited by PianoYos; 06/14/19 05:02 PM.
Re: A Recording Project... [Re: PianoYos] #2858640
06/14/19 07:32 PM
06/14/19 07:32 PM
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Computerpro3 and PianoYos, I thank you for allowing others like me to listen in on your conversation about the Bach Chaconne. Wow...


”Mister Upright,” Yamaha YUS5.
Re: A Recording Project... [Re: PianoYos] #2858643
06/14/19 07:58 PM
06/14/19 07:58 PM
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I, too, am not enamoured with the amount of reverberation in the Debussy. The blend of a harmonious sound in Debussy (when it's appropriate) comes from a considered and judicious use of the damper pedal, not from a reverberating echo washing over everything. Perhaps this was just an experiment on your part. For my taste, it doesn't succeed.

I also felt that the left hand at times displays a little too prominently individual notes rather than a carefully subdued subtle accompaniment.

I like the overall tempo but the comment I made about the left hand makes portions of this performance sound a little too rigid (around the 50 to 60 second mark, as one specific example); I would like to hear a little more flexibility of tempo without going overboard with rubato.

I'd like to hear this again without the reverb; I think it has potential. The ending is exquisite!

Thanks for sharing.

Regards,


BruceD
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Re: A Recording Project... [Re: PianoYos] #2858688
06/15/19 01:02 AM
06/15/19 01:02 AM
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Six recordings without reverb:

#3: Debussy - Rêverie
#4: Chopin - Nocturne in E-flat Major (Op. 9, No. 2)
#5: Brahms - Intermezzo in A Major (Op. 118, No. 2)
#6: Brahms - Intermezzo in Bb Minor (Op. 117, No. 2)
#7: Tchaikovsky - Valse Sentimentale
#8: Tchaikovsky - "Barcarolle" (or "June" from "The Seasons")

I was excessive earlier with the added effects, so here are more "raw" versions of my recordings.

Originally Posted by Qwerty53
Computerpro3 and PianoYos, I thank you for allowing others like me to listen in on your conversation about the Bach Chaconne. Wow...


I am/was but a humble student in that conversation...I learned so much about that piece from computerpro3, and really just how much thought can/should go into an interpretation of a piece.

Originally Posted by BruceD
The blend of a harmonious sound in Debussy (when it's appropriate) comes from a considered and judicious use of the damper pedal, not from a reverberating echo washing over everything. Perhaps this was just an experiment on your part. For my taste, it doesn't succeed.

I also felt that the left hand at times displays a little too prominently individual notes rather than a carefully subdued subtle accompaniment.

I like the overall tempo but the comment I made about the left hand makes portions of this performance sound a little too rigid (around the 50 to 60 second mark, as one specific example); I would like to hear a little more flexibility of tempo without going overboard with rubato.

I'd like to hear this again without the reverb; I think it has potential. The ending is exquisite!


Thank you for your insightful comments, as usual! It was definitely a failed experiment - one which I'll keep in mind for future reference. I've also taken note of the LH - I notice what you said about the rigidity in the place you mentioned. I'll listen more carefully to my recording and see if I can spot other places where this happens. Also, I'm glad you mentioned the tempo - I had been a little conflicted about that. I personally usually like using rubato quite a lot, so for me, my rendition of this Debussy piece was super rigid - the reason being his remarks at the beginning, "sans lenteur." I'm not sure how literally I should take that - is it okay to put tiny pauses in between phrases? How about within a phrase to emphasize notes? Also, does it apply to the middle section too? I've heard interpretations of this piece that I felt were much too over board with the rubato. I certainly want to add more in my own interpretation, but I'm not quite sure how or where I can...

Last edited by PianoYos; 06/15/19 01:07 AM.
Re: A Recording Project... [Re: PianoYos] #2858698
06/15/19 01:38 AM
06/15/19 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by PianoYos
[...] his remarks at the beginning, "sans lenteur." I'm not sure how literally I should take that - is it okay to put tiny pauses in between phrases? How about within a phrase to emphasize notes? Also, does it apply to the middle section too? I've heard interpretations of this piece that I felt were much too over board with the rubato. I certainly want to add more in my own interpretation, but I'm not quite sure how or where I can...


"Sans lenteur" literally, without being slow; in other words, don't let it drag. The piece has to move along - and I think your overall tempo is appropriate - but Debussy's direction doesn't mean to not use rubato. And don't forget the significance or the title: a rêverie is a daydream or a state of mind where one abandons oneself to vague but rather pleasant thoughts.

Regards,


BruceD
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Re: A Recording Project... [Re: BruceD] #2858700
06/15/19 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by BruceD
"Sans lenteur" literally, without being slow; in other words, don't let it drag. The piece has to move along - and I think your overall tempo is appropriate - but Debussy's direction doesn't mean to not use rubato. And don't forget the significance or the title: a rêverie is a daydream or a state of mind where one abandons oneself to vague but rather pleasant thoughts.


Thank you for this - I really needed the clarification and this certainly changes my approach to the piece. I will keep my overall tempo but will use more rubato - I always wanted to use more anyway, especially in the middle section where I felt it was more necessary. I suppose the trick to this piece is being selective with the rubato and not letting it drag the overall tempo - something I'll need to think through today.

Re: A Recording Project... [Re: PianoYos] #2858805
06/15/19 12:22 PM
06/15/19 12:22 PM
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Thank you for sharing. I have recently played one of the Brahms intermezzo. One suggestion I was given for the op 117 no 2 intermezzo was pedalling every harmony change. When it gets to the chordal parts I was taught a lot of pedal changes. It can really make a difference. At my slow tempo it was very noticeable if you blur the chord harmonies. I'm not too sure if you are blurring it at you are playing it faster than I can and you have added effects.

Re: A Recording Project... [Re: PianoYos] #2858927
06/15/19 07:39 PM
06/15/19 07:39 PM
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In the Ozarks of Missouri
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I am enjoying listening to these different versions, and comments.


[Linked Image]
Re: A Recording Project... [Re: PianoYos] #2858933
06/15/19 08:24 PM
06/15/19 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Moo :)
Thank you for sharing. I have recently played one of the Brahms intermezzo. One suggestion I was given for the op 117 no 2 intermezzo was pedalling every harmony change. When it gets to the chordal parts I was taught a lot of pedal changes. It can really make a difference. At my slow tempo it was very noticeable if you blur the chord harmonies. I'm not too sure if you are blurring it at you are playing it faster than I can and you have added effects.


Thank you for listening! Also thank you for the suggestion about the pedaling. I actually hadn't been too conscious of it when I recorded this. I'm listening to the version without the effects and it seems I do pedal out the chord changes for the most part - still, something I need to be aware of so thank you for reminding me. In hindsight, the effects was probably a really bad idea for this Brahms piece in particular because of the arpeggios and sometimes rapidly changing chords.

I actually record on a mono mic, so the recordings on their own don't have any stereo width until I make a few tweaks afterwards. It really is tedious, but I think it's clear now I've been adding a little too much reverb. I'll tone it down from now on.

Originally Posted by NobleHouse
I am enjoying listening to these different versions, and comments.


I'm glad to hear that! I'm really grateful for all the comments and criticisms I've been getting. I've never had lessons or a teacher before so this has been incredibly helpful for me.

Re: A Recording Project... [Re: PianoYos] #2859227
06/16/19 03:29 PM
06/16/19 03:29 PM
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#9 - Chopin - Polonaise in Ab Major ("Heroic", Op. 53)

I upload this some apprehension...

It's not perfect by any means, but it's better than it's ever been under my fingers.

Comments/suggestions/criticisms welcome, as always...

Re: A Recording Project... [Re: PianoYos] #2859689
06/17/19 05:47 PM
06/17/19 05:47 PM
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Starting my recordings of Chopin Mazurkas now! 10 more of these to go...

#10 - Chopin - Mazurka in E Major (Op. 6, No. 3)
#11 - Chopin - Mazurka in Bb Major (Op. 7, No. 1)

Any suggestions/criticisms/comments welcome. The first one has a few misses towards the end, sorry about that...

I'm a third of my way through this project, but if anyone feels like I'm posting too much or hogging this subforum, please let me know either on this thread or through PM, and I'll tone things down.

Re: A Recording Project... [Re: PianoYos] #2859724
06/17/19 07:29 PM
06/17/19 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by PianoYos
[...] but if anyone feels like I'm posting too much or hogging this subforum, please let me know either on this thread or through PM, and I'll tone things down.


It's not a question of whether or not you and your recordings are "hogging this subforum," it's rather a question of how much time we may have to listen and to comment. It does take time to listen, study the score and compare it with what one hears, and then to try to write cogent comments that may be meaningful or helpful.

It was just about to get to the Chopin Op. 9, No. 2 Nocturne! That, I think, was several recordings back!

Regards,


BruceD
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Estonia 190
Re: A Recording Project... [Re: BruceD] #2859749
06/17/19 09:13 PM
06/17/19 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by PianoYos
[...] but if anyone feels like I'm posting too much or hogging this subforum, please let me know either on this thread or through PM, and I'll tone things down.


It's not a question of whether or not you and your recordings are "hogging this subforum," it's rather a question of how much time we may have to listen and to comment. It does take time to listen, study the score and compare it with what one hears, and then to try to write cogent comments that may be meaningful or helpful.

It was just about to get to the Chopin Op. 9, No. 2 Nocturne! That, I think, was several recordings back!

Regards,


Bingo - also, I am hesitant to comment in detail on works I have not deeply studied l or have not personally played since I don't want to appear an idiot.

I would encourage you to keep posting, nobody is going to get upset with you posting more recordings - especially since you are doing it all within one thread.

Re: A Recording Project... [Re: PianoYos] #2859878
06/18/19 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by BruceD
It's not a question of whether or not you and your recordings are "hogging this subforum," it's rather a question of how much time we may have to listen and to comment. It does take time to listen, study the score and compare it with what one hears, and then to try to write cogent comments that may be meaningful or helpful.

Sometimes I get so wrapped up in my insecurities and in my own little world that I forget to consider these things...thank you for reminding me.

Originally Posted by computerpro3
Bingo - also, I am hesitant to comment in detail on works I have not deeply studied l or have not personally played since I don't want to appear an idiot.

I would encourage you to keep posting, nobody is going to get upset with you posting more recordings - especially since you are doing it all within one thread.

Thanks for saying this - I'll try and keep it going. Also, what you said about commenting, I'll keep in mind next time I'm thinking of commenting on someone's recordings...especially if they hadn't specifically asked for feedback in their post.

Re: A Recording Project... [Re: PianoYos] #2859902
06/18/19 08:16 AM
06/18/19 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by PianoYos
Originally Posted by BruceD
It's not a question of whether or not you and your recordings are "hogging this subforum," it's rather a question of how much time we may have to listen and to comment. It does take time to listen, study the score and compare it with what one hears, and then to try to write cogent comments that may be meaningful or helpful.

Sometimes I get so wrapped up in my insecurities and in my own little world that I forget to consider these things...thank you for reminding me.

Originally Posted by computerpro3
Bingo - also, I am hesitant to comment in detail on works I have not deeply studied l or have not personally played since I don't want to appear an idiot.

I would encourage you to keep posting, nobody is going to get upset with you posting more recordings - especially since you are doing it all within one thread.

Thanks for saying this - I'll try and keep it going. Also, what you said about commenting, I'll keep in mind next time I'm thinking of commenting on someone's recordings...especially if they hadn't specifically asked for feedback in their post.


An observation here, but I think a lot of the time when people are posting recordings they are looking for general, high level, positive feedback from a general listening point of view. I don't believe people are looking for the kind of feedback I often see here - bar 3, the score is marked pianissimo but I think yours was more ppp. And I certainly don't think people are looking for any obvious mistakes or technical difficulties to be pointed out. This is not an adjudication forum. Or perhaps that's just me (I would never dare post a recording for feedback anyhow!).


Pianist, independent music arranger, violinist, mother
Re: A Recording Project... [Re: ShyPianist] #2859906
06/18/19 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ShyPianist
An observation here, but I think a lot of the time when people are posting recordings they are looking for general, high level, positive feedback from a general listening point of view. I don't believe people are looking for the kind of feedback I often see here - bar 3, the score is marked pianissimo but I think yours was more ppp.

And I certainly don't think people are looking for any obvious mistakes or technical difficulties to be pointed out. This is not an adjudication forum.

I agree with this in general, although personally, I sometimes "miss" things in the score that are glaringly obvious to others but not to me, because I approach the piece with preconceptions gained from other pianists' recordings, or I simply just unintentionally ignore some markings. So I do value those comments too, even if they can be hard to take in sometimes. It is nice to get positive feedback though, because usually when you put up a recording, it's taken a lot of hard work and you want that bit of encouragement to keep improving the piece. And with music, you can get so vulnerable because you're expressing so much of yourself through what you play.

Originally Posted by ShyPianist
Or perhaps that's just me (I would never dare post a recording for feedback anyhow!).

It's actually taken me quite a while to work myself up to a point where I can put myself out there without crumbling. Years, in fact. I've had some bad experiences on other forums, where all I got was "this is terrible" or something to that extent. My one and only time I brought a piece to a teacher, he stopped me before I finished playing and kept repeating the words "schwer", "schwierig" and "schrecklich" (he was Austrian), which, basically mean "awful". Anyway, enough of my sob stories...I just get the difficulty of posting recordings for feedback. I really am taking this project seriously though, so I figured now is as good a time as any to toughen up my resolve and be able to take in criticisms without falling apart.

Last edited by PianoYos; 06/18/19 08:32 AM.
Re: A Recording Project... [Re: PianoYos] #2860940
06/20/19 03:30 PM
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Recording #12: Rachmaninoff - Moment Musical No. 3 in B Minor

I was going to do a pair of Rachmaninoff recordings much later on, but tonight I sort of needed to play this. Comments/criticisms welcome etc.

Re: A Recording Project... [Re: PianoYos] #2861418
06/21/19 09:51 PM
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For several different reasons, I've decided to stop posting recordings here, and I've taken everything down.

To anyone who commented and encouraged me on this thread, please note that I valued your input, and that I've learned a lot about the process of understanding and polishing a piece, for which I am grateful. A special thank you to computerpro3 for teaching me so much about the Chaconne, and completely changing how I approach the piece. I hope some day in the near future I can do better justice to the piece.

I will continue this project on my own, and hopefully I can apply what I've learned here to future pieces.

Re: A Recording Project... [Re: PianoYos] #2866620
07/06/19 03:10 PM
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I wasn't sure where to post this, but I just launched my YouTube channel. It might not seem it, but it took me years to get to this point. I know I wrote previously I'd be continuing this project on my own, but I couldn't really contain my excitement about the launch, and I just had to post somewhere on here and let someone on this forum know about it.

Since my first upload is an original composition that doesn't quite fall under either the classical or non-classical/minimalist categories, I felt posting in either of those sub-forums here was somewhat inappropriate, so...not wanting to take up any more "space", I figured the best place to post was here on this thread.

This is what I uploaded - a piece I wrote for a friend, called "The Lone Path". It's the first piece I ever composed (about five years ago), with zero formal training in composing. It is harmonically extremely simple, but I really hope someone might enjoy listening to it.


(P.S. I'm sorry about the minor promotional content towards the end, please ignore it.)

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