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seiler ED 132 vs Kawai K500 #2858209
06/13/19 02:44 PM
06/13/19 02:44 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6
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dwvv4 Offline OP
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dwvv4  Offline OP
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Both new, Price difference is $1100 (Kawai more expensive)
I am shopping for my 6 years old (And another little girl will practice on it in a few years). So I want to buy a reliable high quality piano which holds longer.
No preference to the sounds (like Seiler is a little bit more)

I am little bit concerned about the quality of Seiler ED since they are assembled in Indonesia (vs Kawai K500 made in Japan)

Any suggestion is welcomed! Thank you very much!

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Re: seiler ED 132 vs Kawai K500 [Re: dwvv4] #2858225
06/13/19 03:16 PM
06/13/19 03:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,367
Southwest
j&j Offline
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Both brand new? I’d take the Kawai in a heartbeat. I love both new Yamahas and Kawai’s. Both are extremely consistent and with appropriate care are wonderfully stable instruments. Few if any weird surprises.


J & J
Yamaha C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
Pianos - the reason God made trees!
[Linked Image]
Re: seiler ED 132 vs Kawai K500 [Re: dwvv4] #2858231
06/13/19 03:23 PM
06/13/19 03:23 PM
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Lady Bird Online content
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The Ed Seiler has had a very good review on Piano Buyer.
Apparently great tone and great action ! The German design
is followed carefully.
Kawai K500 also great piano.

Re: seiler ED 132 vs Kawai K500 [Re: dwvv4] #2858233
06/13/19 03:33 PM
06/13/19 03:33 PM
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Posts: 75
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panche23 Offline
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The K500 would be my choice. Its plenty of piano for a beginner as well as a seasoned player. They have a quality and structural reputation.

Re: seiler ED 132 vs Kawai K500 [Re: dwvv4] #2858236
06/13/19 03:38 PM
06/13/19 03:38 PM
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Posts: 6
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dwvv4 Offline OP
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Thank you all! There is a price difference of $1100 and heard good things about Seiler ED, which made me hesitate...

Re: seiler ED 132 vs Kawai K500 [Re: dwvv4] #2858250
06/13/19 03:59 PM
06/13/19 03:59 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,910
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terminaldegree Offline
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I would trust a reasonably prepped version of either piano for this purpose. (Honestly, they’re overkill for a beginner). Kawai and Seiler have markedly different tonal aesthetics, and shoppers tend to prefer one or the other fairly clearly for this reason. Both are well-regarded models with each makers’ lineups.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: seiler ED 132 vs Kawai K500 [Re: dwvv4] #2858251
06/13/19 04:02 PM
06/13/19 04:02 PM
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j&j Offline
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Originally Posted by dwvv4
Thank you all! There is a price difference of $1100 and heard good things about Seiler ED, which made me hesitate...


Amortize that $1,100 over the next however many years you plan on keeping that piano, and it’s a pretty small price difference in the scheme of things. But certainly try out both. If you prefer the Kawai, that price difference shouldn’t dissuade you from buying the one you want.
Just my humble opinion.


J & J
Yamaha C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
Pianos - the reason God made trees!
[Linked Image]
Re: seiler ED 132 vs Kawai K500 [Re: dwvv4] #2858278
06/13/19 04:56 PM
06/13/19 04:56 PM
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North of Los Angeles
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Learux Offline

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$1100 is not that much money. Go try them both and pick the one you like best best!


When you play, never mind who listens to you. R.Schumann.

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Re: seiler ED 132 vs Kawai K500 [Re: dwvv4] #2858310
06/13/19 06:16 PM
06/13/19 06:16 PM
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North Vancouver
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Lady Bird Online content
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Lady Bird  Online Content
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Kawai is tough piano you can almost be certain it last well.
I do not know enough about these ED Seiler pianos to say it would last the same .I thought the bass rather muddy.The action though
was very good, but the touch was very light.I remember thinking the
tone was very nice. It was in 2017 that I tried these so remembering
is tricky.
I was told it was made in Indonesia before I tried the piano.

Re: seiler ED 132 vs Kawai K500 [Re: dwvv4] #2858313
06/13/19 06:20 PM
06/13/19 06:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
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North Vancouver
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Lady Bird Online content
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If you felt the bass notes were not destinct enough you could get the
dealer to voice those bass notes before you went to try the piano again.

Re: seiler ED 132 vs Kawai K500 [Re: Lady Bird] #2858327
06/13/19 06:44 PM
06/13/19 06:44 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,910
Georgia, USA
terminaldegree Offline
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terminaldegree  Offline
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird

I do not know enough about these ED Seiler pianos to say it would last the same .I thought the bass rather muddy.The action though
was very good, but the touch was very light.I remember thinking the tone was very nice.

If you felt the bass notes were not destinct enough you could get the dealer to voice those bass notes before you went to try the piano again.


I don't recall the OP saying anything negative about the tone, rather the opposite.
Have seen you post this comment about the ED132 a couple of times on the forum now. May I ask how many of that model you've tried? I think I've played maybe 6, and "weak/muddy bass" is not a characteristic I remember about any of them.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: seiler ED 132 vs Kawai K500 [Re: dwvv4] #2858346
06/13/19 08:26 PM
06/13/19 08:26 PM
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Lady Bird Online content
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North Vancouver
I am sure you try a great of pianos that most of us never do.
Yes I will keep saying that some in the notes in the bass that I tried on the Ed Seiler were indistinct in the bass .They had 2 pianos one
about 130 size and the other just shorter.Apart from that the tone was very nice.(both had a bass that could have been improved in some notes)
Perhaps these pianos just arrived and needed some voicing.
How many here have played these ?We can only dicuss what we
have experienced ! The OP would need a technician for a more
objective discussion.
You obviously know more about these pianos than I do.

Re: seiler ED 132 vs Kawai K500 [Re: dwvv4] #2858352
06/13/19 08:56 PM
06/13/19 08:56 PM
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Lady Bird Online content
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The observation about the ED Seiler above was not a serious
flaw as I felt sure the piano just needed voicing so I do not
really understand your reaction Terminaldegree.
Both the Kawai K500 and the Ed Seiler to me are very equal
in terms of quality of tone and response.In fact in many ways I
preferred the Ed Seiler.
My first childhood piano was a pre-war Seiler of course
made in Germany.
However I felt the Ed Seiler had tonal qualities that was very
"European"(as subjective as my assesment is)
My comment about the piano lasting is just made because
Kawai and Yamaha really make tough uprights.
I think that is well agreed upon.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 06/13/19 09:00 PM. Reason: Missing word
Re: seiler ED 132 vs Kawai K500 [Re: dwvv4] #2858509
06/14/19 11:32 AM
06/14/19 11:32 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,768
Atlanta, GA
PianoWorksATL Offline
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PianoWorksATL  Offline
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Posts: 3,768
Atlanta, GA
j&j, the OP preferred the Seiler and the Seiler is less.

Lady Bird, I believe that terminaldegree's point is that you are forming a strong opinion and frequently commenting...based on one brief experience with one instrument. His experience includes more examples of that model and differs from yours...in fact, it agrees with the OP.

to the OP, I'm not questioning the motives of any recommendations made and you may question my motives as a Seiler dealer, but I would point out the obvious and then something not obvious.

A) If all things were equal in performance, the Seiler is less expensive
B) If all things were equal in price, you still have a slight preference for the Seiler's sound

I have no reason to say negative things about the Kawai K500, and had you preferred it, I would say that is probably worth the extra cost over the lifetime of your ownership to have your preferred piano. But the Seiler is winning in both areas.

The reviews are positive for both models. Seiler has 170 years of outstanding reputation and has been making the ED132 model for at least 9 years now. The Kawai K500 model is ~ 4 years old.

On a simple note, while many Kawai owners exhibit brand loyalty, we see vociferous brand loyalty among our Seiler owners that really appreciate these instruments.


Now to briefly point out what may not be obvious.

Indonesia is the largest exporter of pianos in the world and has been for a while. Many piano manufacturer's have invested heavily to build factories in Indonesia including Kawai. Piano manufacturing in Japan is greatly reduced from volumes seen in even the recent past.

I would also welcome Kawai to be more transparent with their standards of "made in Japan". To be clear, I'm suggesting that there is a gap in the correct legal use for imports to the US and the public's common sense understanding of what "made in" constitutes. The US has high standards for what "Made in USA" means or even what "Assembled in USA" actually means, but they do not apply any of those standards to what other countries permit. These standards do not ensure quality, but they do ensure transparency to consumers. If the US applied the same standards of assembly, very few Japanese pianos would get the label "Made in Japan".

I am not suggesting that Kawai is cutting corners or standards by global sourcing or mixed assembly. I'm suggesting that the legal standards have created a loophole whereby a piano that Kawai ships to the US may be able to legally say "Made in Japan" but when the same piano ships to Europe or Australia, it may say something else. If you prefer to place your trust in a brand, I understand, but if you prefer to place your trust in "Made in Japan" then you may be wise to ask what that means for the piano you are considering.

Seiler is making the ED-series in Indonesia with globally sourced parts. In replicating the design of the German SE-series, the ED uses so many of the same German components. They offer a clear message of how they are driving quality while managing costs.

You are considering safe choices, but if you are looking for reasons to get one or the other, no one has provided anything that contradicts your own evaluation or substantiated a concern where one is made.

Good luck in your search!

Last edited by PianoWorksATL; 06/14/19 11:32 AM.

Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
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www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta
Re: seiler ED 132 vs Kawai K500 [Re: dwvv4] #2858573
06/14/19 03:33 PM
06/14/19 03:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,125
North Vancouver
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Lady Bird Online content
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Lady Bird  Online Content
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Joined: Aug 2018
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North Vancouver
I am sorry I never meant to down play the Ed Seiler.
As I said at that time I actually preferred theEd Seiler
to the K500.At that time I was searching for an upright
in the same level as the Yamaha U1 ,U3, K500
or the the Ed Seiler. I preferred the Ed Seiler and
the sales person said they could voice the bass notes
I did not like.
My decision ultimately was to buy a U1 because it was
"safe".At that time I did not know much about pianos.
OK I certainly do not want to put people off the Ed Seiler
because I know it to be a good piano.
The new U1 did not stay with me long. I later bought something
else.

Re: seiler ED 132 vs Kawai K500 [Re: dwvv4] #2858823
06/15/19 01:00 PM
06/15/19 01:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,768
Atlanta, GA
PianoWorksATL Offline
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PianoWorksATL  Offline
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Posts: 3,768
Atlanta, GA
I think Lady Bird's experience with briefly owning a U1 as a "safe" choice illustrates what can be a common mistake of choosing the perceived "safe" choice that an inexperienced buyer might choose over their true preference. In truth, almost any new piano on the market today in the US is a "safe" choice. This wasn't true 15 years ago.

My first personal piano was a U1. It was good and sturdy and well serviced...and I still didn't like its tone nearly as much as my second piano, a piano that was certainly not well known, but offered greater musicality and was far more to my taste. I wasted time on a good but less satisfying instrument, and if I hadn't been in the business, I would have lost money making the change.

If you preferred the Kawai, that would be the correct choice. But by the same token, if you prefer the Seiler, it is the correct choice. It's a bonus that is saves you over $1k


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta
Re: seiler ED 132 vs Kawai K500 [Re: PianoWorksATL] #2859289
06/16/19 05:47 PM
06/16/19 05:47 PM
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Posts: 2,249
Toronto, Ontario
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Peter K. Mose Offline
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Originally Posted by PianoWorksATL

My first personal piano was a U1. It was good and sturdy and well serviced...and I still didn't like its tone nearly as much as my second piano, a piano that was certainly not well known, but offered greater musicality and was far more to my taste. I wasted time on a good but less satisfying instrument, and if I hadn't been in the business, I would have lost money making the change.



Thanks for this candid and thoughtful tale, Sam - I love it!

Last edited by Peter K. Mose; 06/16/19 05:47 PM.
Re: seiler ED 132 vs Kawai K500 [Re: dwvv4] #2859511
06/17/19 09:38 AM
06/17/19 09:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,367
Southwest
j&j Offline
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j&j  Offline
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Southwest
Originally Posted by dwvv4

No preference to the sounds (like Seiler is a little bit more)


PianoWorksATL - I took the OP’s first half of the sentence rather than the second part in parentheses. Also, I’m not a Kawai dealer so have no stake in which one the OP chooses. I do know Kawai pianos have a great reputation worldwide and feel safe in recommending them as a wonderful piano. I thought the OP was worried about the price difference and was reassuring the OP in the big scheme of buying a new piano, that price difference shouldn’t stand in the way of getting the dream piano, whichever piano is chosen.


J & J
Yamaha C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
Pianos - the reason God made trees!
[Linked Image]
Re: seiler ED 132 vs Kawai K500 [Re: dwvv4] #2860056
06/18/19 01:57 PM
06/18/19 01:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,768
Atlanta, GA
PianoWorksATL Offline
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PianoWorksATL  Offline
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Atlanta, GA
Hi j&j,

Like I said, I didn't suspect or suggest anything was at issue with your preference and agree with your logic to "go for the one you love" if it doesn't break your budget.

I say this to new piano shoppers all the time...even well intentioned advice tends to be shallow, repeating popular trends over specifics. In a post like this, the shopper is looking for a thumbs up, thumbs down of their choices, and the truth is they are quite competitive.

Seiler has 170 years of great reputation...that doesn't take anything away from Kawai, but the idea that Kawai has the advantage in this seems like a misunderstanding.


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta
Re: seiler ED 132 vs Kawai K500 [Re: dwvv4] #2860140
06/18/19 05:45 PM
06/18/19 05:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
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Lady Bird Online content
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Lady Bird  Online Content
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,125
North Vancouver
It appears that one needs to really know who here sells
what in order to know what to say anything about any
piano that one has tried.
So I SERIOUSLY did try out that particular piano but it is difficult to share because one may cause problems.
Many pianos here are negatively referred to because
of one's experiences.So I personally do not believe
anyone's experience of anything in life is shallow.


Last edited by Lady Bird; 06/18/19 05:49 PM. Reason: Missing word

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