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Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue [Re: steinwayman18] #2858338
06/13/19 07:07 PM
06/13/19 07:07 PM
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Posts: 1,367
Southwest
j&j Offline
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As our beloved moderator, we all knew who you were addressing. Besides Ken doesn’t let us have secret user names.


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Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue [Re: steinwayman18] #2858343
06/13/19 07:56 PM
06/13/19 07:56 PM
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North of Los Angeles
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Learux Offline

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Rich can you delete some private messages. apparently you are over your limit.


When you play, never mind who listens to you. R.Schumann.

Casio GP-400
Schimmel SP-182T
Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue [Re: steinwayman18] #2858444
06/14/19 06:46 AM
06/14/19 06:46 AM
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oldMH Offline
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Have you checked with other piano brokers for their experiences? I am not a broker but aware of several recent Spirio resales, but not of any details of the player system ID transfer.

This news is just one more reason to view Spirio with caution.

Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue [Re: steinwayman18] #2860552
06/19/19 05:16 PM
06/19/19 05:16 PM
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Retsacnal Online content

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Any updates re. Spirio transferability?



"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue [Re: Retsacnal] #2861394
06/21/19 07:41 PM
06/21/19 07:41 PM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 72
New York, NY
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steinwayman18 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Retsacnal
Any updates re. Spirio transferability?


The buyers tell me they are currently speaking with Steinway directly, as well as talking to their attorney about what rights they may have as it relates to the fact that Steinway appears to have advertised it as a free lifetime subscription to all Spirio owners. It seems clear that this is new ground for Steinway, and they are in the process of creating "new rules". I'm hoping they can sort it out, and when I hear more I will definitely report back.

Last edited by steinwayman18; 06/21/19 07:42 PM.

Ronen

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Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue [Re: steinwayman18] #2861457
06/22/19 01:56 AM
06/22/19 01:56 AM
Joined: May 2018
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North of Los Angeles
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Learux Offline

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So this is Steinway customer service? I spend a reasonable amount on my first grand piano. Steinway, I don't think so.


When you play, never mind who listens to you. R.Schumann.

Casio GP-400
Schimmel SP-182T
Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue [Re: steinwayman18] #2862086
06/23/19 06:32 PM
06/23/19 06:32 PM
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Thanks for the update. Curious to see how this plays out.



"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue [Re: steinwayman18] #2862441
06/24/19 07:15 PM
06/24/19 07:15 PM
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Posts: 206
Minneapolis, MN
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Mark Fontana Offline
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Steinway ought to implement a web portal permitting the original owner to securely hand off the customer ID to the new owner, who would register with their own address, email, etc. (analogous to changing the registration of a vehicle after selling it). The market for pianos this expensive is quite small, so knowing who is in possession of each Spirio piano is valuable information. It would enable Steinway to market service plans and upgrade offers as well as properly associate location and demographic data and stats captured during usage, such as track popularity. I would guess that Steinway just didn't anticipate the used market for Spirio and is still catching up while being preoccupied with promoting the next generation of the system (Spirio | r).

Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue [Re: steinwayman18] #2862455
06/24/19 07:42 PM
06/24/19 07:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 754
San Mateo, CA
Kurtmen Offline
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This is foreign in the piano world but this is old news. Software is protected by intellectual property laws and the software developer has the right to lease and limit the use of the software.
If you buy a desktop with an operating system by Microsoft, you pay a yearly fee for the use of Office360. If the desktop is sold, the new user technically will have to renew at some point the lease on the software.
Steinway and the software developer do not have to comply with the perception of the general public that the owner of the piano has full ownership of the software operating the piano.
But this is not Steinway's fault, it is the consumers that choose to buy this outrageously overpriced jukebox that in ten years from now will be old junk. Pianodisc offers a system that is equal or better and it is not $50,000 and you have full ownership of it.


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Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue [Re: steinwayman18] #2862985
06/26/19 01:03 PM
06/26/19 01:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 59
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astrotoy Online content
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Interested about your comments on the PianoDisc system. I went to the PianoDisc website and have several questions.

I would like to have a recording system that can do the 1024 levels of Extended Midi (I think that should be the same as the Spirio R if I am not mistaken).

I see many artists have recorded files for PianoDisc that can be played also, however I don't see whether they are at this higher resolution or just in the standard mid ( which we have have on our Yamaha S400E which has a standard Disklavier built in).

Also it looks like there are some files that have video also. Is that true?

I also saw a few piano concerti with orchestral accompaniment. Does the orchestra play along with you or do you have to follow the orchestra's tempo?

If we had a system installed in our Bosie 225, how much would that cost (to essentially duplicate the resolution of the Spirio R for both recording and playback)?

Also I see you are in San Mateo. Do you have a hi resolution system available to demo in your store?

Thanks.


Boesendorfer 225 (1985)
Yamaha S400E (predecessor to CF4) Disklavier (1992)
Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue [Re: steinwayman18] #2863015
06/26/19 02:35 PM
06/26/19 02:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,367
Southwest
j&j Offline
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Technology changes and ages far faster than an acoustic instrument depreciates. I’m rather shocked and dismayed that Steinway hasn’t already come up with an equitable solution yet and the resale of the Spirio equipped piano to a new owner isn’t addressed in the Spirio service contract. Who in heaven name was the legal consultant on that contract? Why didn’t a reputable long standing American piano maker figure this out before rolling it out?


J & J
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Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue [Re: steinwayman18] #2863094
06/26/19 06:27 PM
06/26/19 06:27 PM
Joined: May 2015
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Florida
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It should give anyone pause for thought before buying a Spiro piano. A lot of money that might be wasted on resale.
I’m surprised we have not had a Steinway reply to this thread with some good news; the silence is concerning

Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue [Re: dogperson] #2863131
06/26/19 08:24 PM
06/26/19 08:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,624
In the Ozarks of Missouri
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Originally Posted by dogperson
It should give anyone pause for thought before buying a Spiro piano. A lot of money that might be wasted on resale.
I’m surprised we have not had a Steinway reply to this thread with some good news; the silence is concerning


The silence from Steinway really is deafening!


[Linked Image]
Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue [Re: astrotoy] #2863140
06/26/19 09:18 PM
06/26/19 09:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 754
San Mateo, CA
Kurtmen Offline
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San Mateo, CA
Quote
If we had a system installed in our Bosie 225, how much would that cost (to essentially duplicate the resolution of the Spirio R for both recording and playback)?

My two cents, Don't wreck your piano. Buy yourself a high definition sound system then listen to every single orchestra and pianist in the world. Watching the keys move gets old very fast, unless you have a restaurant or hotel with guests everyday. If you entertain at home hire a pianist.

Last edited by Kurtmen; 06/26/19 09:26 PM.

San Mateo Piano
Kawai Piano Dealer San Francisco Bay Area
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Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue [Re: steinwayman18] #2863157
06/26/19 10:58 PM
06/26/19 10:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,320
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Retsacnal Online content

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I don't think we can know too much without seeing the licensing agreement that accompanies a sale. I'd be surprised if Steinway's lawyers left them open to a perpetual obligation. They bought an existing company, so at a minimum they should have acquired that company's tech savvy.



"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue [Re: steinwayman18] #2863187
06/27/19 02:05 AM
06/27/19 02:05 AM
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Posts: 206
Minneapolis, MN
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Mark Fontana Offline
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Minneapolis, MN
By clicking on Licence Agreement at https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/steinway-spirio/id942701332, then scrolling through the pop-up text, I found the following near the bottom:
Quote
For the avoidance of doubt, free access to the Spirio library and related services is limited to the original purchaser of a Spirio piano from a Steinway-authorized dealer or the Company. For all other users, access will be granted upon the payment of an activation fee and annual subscription fees, which shall be at prevailing rates as provided by the Company.

Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue [Re: Mark Fontana] #2863194
06/27/19 02:59 AM
06/27/19 02:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
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Retsacnal Online content

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Interesting



"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue [Re: steinwayman18] #2863205
06/27/19 05:09 AM
06/27/19 05:09 AM
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Posts: 1,339
Queensland, Australia
backto_study_piano Offline
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This sounds very like the warranty on some Tier 1 pianos - only to the original purchaser.

This is quite different from cars where they are all transferrable - eg TOYOTA's 7yr drivetrain warranty is for 7 yrs, no matter how many owners it has.

I was reading at the release of a new BMW Model this week that it now comes with Apple-CARPLAY - for 1 year only - after then, by subscription. Odd - many $15,000 cars come with it for life.

My guess would be that having a policy like Steinway's will likely curtail sales of pianos with that product.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue [Re: backto_study_piano] #2863216
06/27/19 06:10 AM
06/27/19 06:10 AM
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Florida
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Originally Posted by backto_study_piano
This sounds very like the warranty on some Tier 1 pianos - only to the original purchaser.

This is quite different from cars where they are all transferrable - eg TOYOTA's 7yr drivetrain warranty is for 7 yrs, no matter how many owners it has.

I was reading at the release of a new BMW Model this week that it now comes with Apple-CARPLAY - for 1 year only - after then, by subscription. Odd - many $15,000 cars come with it for life.

My guess would be that having a policy like Steinway's will likely curtail sales of pianos with that product.


Looks like the original piano owner nor the purchaser were aware of this. I hope this policy is being disclosed to potential buyers of new Spiro pianos. It would be interesting to hear from those that purchased them and whether this license agreement is discussed prior to purchase. Hearing Steinway’s instructions to dealers of how to present this would also be interesting. It certainly diminishes the value at the time of the second sale.

Re: Steinway Spirio Service Issue [Re: steinwayman18] #2863234
06/27/19 08:47 AM
06/27/19 08:47 AM
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Posts: 1,367
Southwest
j&j Offline
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I grant you that Tier 1 pianos don’t typically sell and resell like vehicles. And if you’re owner number 2 on a vehicle you pay for Satellite Radio or Apple Car Play subscriptions year by year. Which by the way is a completely annoying aggravating occurrence. Now my (if I had actually bought one) new-to-me Steinway would require me paying yet another flipping subscription service to use the high end Spirio service??? Really????
I’d send that Spirio equipped piano back to the seller so fast the delivery guys’ heads would spin off their necks!
But hey, that’s me.
I was really interested in Steinway’s Spirio service until this thread. Now, I’m no longer interested at all. What a ripoff.


J & J
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Pianos - the reason God made trees!
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