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What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
#2858007 06/13/19 04:45 AM
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I have about $2000 to spend on a digital piano for my home practice (I can stretch the budged up a bit, but not too much). I want a digital piano because I have roommates who wouldn't appreciate hearing piano sounds from my room and also I'd like to practice at night. For past few weeks I've been searching forums and googling extensively as well as visiting local music stores (all three of them in my city, anyway). I am curious about your opinions.

As for acoustic pianos, I'm used to play an older Steinway practice grand with a heavy action (not stiff, just heavy) and new-ish Yamaha and Kawai uprights. I like them all, my favorite is the Steinway.

When I approach another piano, I first sit and play keys very softly, just to look for escapement and feel the heavyness of the action and also listen for the sound at the quietest dynamic levels. Then I play some pieces, I usually start without pedaling, just to test out how dynamics work, how much force do I need to put in to produce pp - ff range. Then I use pedal to hear resonances. This is where problems usually start with digital pianos, when they start to behave in a way acoustic pianos do not.
  • The action of digital pianos always feels too light, my fingers almost sink to the keyboard without effort, as if there were no hammers on the other end of the key. This causes some problems when switching between a real piano and digital, one has to get used to it. However, I would not like to spend too much time on a digital with action that doesn't feel right, I am afraid I would not be able to play a real piano after some time spending on a digital.
  • The keys feel plastic, and very light themselves (this is perhaps just a complaint about quality)
  • Dynamics...with acoustic pianos you can always go further, always put a little more force, and get different timbre, especially with grand pianos, you can never "overdo" the force you put in (unless you take a heavy mallet and take a swing, that is), the piano will somehow respond in a new way it did not at previous dynamic level - digital pianos always have some limit at which I can feel I bumped into a solid wall, at this point only the artificial keyboard action produces more noise, but the sound coming out of the speakers doesn't change anymore, neither in terms of loudness, or timbre (as I said, good acoustic pianos have always something new to surprise me with, I like it when they start with mellow sound that gets progressivly bright and loud at higher dynamic levels). I think it's this barrier in combination with the overly light feel of the keyboard that repels me from using that digital piano as a practice instrument. Even when practicing pieces I love to stop to devote a few minutes to just listen to various dynamic levels, timbre changing, feeling the vibrations of the instrument etc...
  • Pedal: on acoustic pianos, the response isn't always yes or no, you can hold a pedal pressed just a little to produce some kind of a "reverb" (resonance), press it just a little bit more to produce more resonance etc. In digital pianos, the pedal is a yes/no type. I haven't realized how bad this feels before, but it does. More about resonance in next point.
  • (Sympathetic) Resonance: try to push one key down so lightly so it doesn't sound the string (let's say A3), just to lift its damper. Now play other notes, mainly the original note's higher harmonics (A4, E5, A5, ...) and you will excite the original string to various degrees. This effect is enhanced greatly when sustain pedal is pressed, because every string in the piano becomes a possible resonator. This is not happening in some digital pianos (or I haven't been able to find that half-pedal range in any).


I am afraid I'm being too difficult to actually buy any digital piano I would really be happy with long-term, but here is what I tried. Note, that in my city, the options are very very limited, there are very few music stores with limited merchandise, so there is only so much I could do.
  • Yamaha P-series (45, 115, ... at $300 - $600): basically all of the above. The action that does not feel anything like the real deal (plastic and to me it feels like just a heavier spring), but at least it's not that light, however, I can still reach the limit fairly easily. The weight alone or the length of the pivot alone do not assure a great-feeling action, there must be something else to it. Plus the stand that comes with these is wobbly, feels weak and kinda ruins the experience too. Pianos do not wobble when you play them.
  • I haven't tried it (no music stores have this on display), but Yamaha P-515 is reported to have a better action than the lower models from P-series
  • No stores have it on display, but I heard Yamaha AvantGrand feels more realistic. However, the price tag...
  • Kawai RH3 (CN-27 at $1800): the action feels very light, plastic, dynamic limit is reached too soon but I like how the white keys are no longer slippery
  • Kawai GF (I tried CP2): equipped with the Grand Feel action. The keys feel really nice, fingers don't slip, the keys themselves feel like they have proper mass, but the action behind the fallboard is too light, the keys are still too easy to press. Also, dynamic limit. The price the local dealer asks for this (almost $10,000 for one and other is discounted $6000) is way out of my league.
  • Kawai RM3 Grand II (VPC1 at around $1800): it was not in a store, but a friend let me try it, it feels almost as heavy as the practice Steinway, the action itself feels almost like the real deal, however the sound depends on which software one pairs it with. It also needs external speakers, so the price goes well above $2000. Plus, wobbly stands (I just like cabinet-style more to my liking, as it doesn't wobble while playing). I can try to buy some sturdy table with space underneath (for pedals) to put it on, but little things tend to ruin the experience (like the pedal unit escaping from underneath my foot).
  • I would like to try Kawai GF II (CA78, 98), but probably no instrument with such action is in my price range (~ $5000). However, GF II is the best from Kawai (excluding the ridiculous ~ $12000 Novus), so if GF II does not feel like the real deal, there is no hope with Kawai DPs. The best I can go with my budget for is CA48 with GF-C action (compact), however, I have no means to try it and I am afraid to just order it, in case it will have the problems I mentioned earlier...most troubling, a light action.


With every digital piano I tried (maybe except VPC1) I bump into one or more problems I mentioned earlier. Plastic keys just make me immediately feel like I'm not playing the real deal. Action that is too light forces one to play so carefully and lightly, that when switching back to acoustic would cause problems, initially. The same with dynamic range, with digital piano it is easy to forget that there are not only 3 (4, 5, 6, 7, ...) possible dynamic ranges, but infinitely many, infinitely finely sampled (by nature) with respect the velocity one pushes keys down with. I feel like for the relevant velocity levels the corresponding force required is too little. I understand that the physics of a real piano are extremely difficult to simulate numerically. We might have to wait a few decades for the real deal, when a digital piano becomes just a really good action attached to a really powerful computer (?)

Is my experience with digital pianos similar to yours, or am I just imagining things? Any ideas? Should I wait and save up for Kawai CA78 (until they finally discontinue it and I'm back on square one when something even more expensive is introduced lol)? Thank you.

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Chopin Acolyte #2858012 06/13/19 05:22 AM
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Yes your experience is normal. Digital pianos are not acoustic pianos. Get your hands on as many DPs as you can until you find one that is good enough for what you want to do. If none of them can pass your standards, stick with an acoustic piano.

FWIW - The best action, best piano simulation, best piano sound/response and the best speaker system are never-ending topics around here, so you should fit right in. That rabbit hole goes pretty deep. Good luck! grin


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Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Groove On #2858014 06/13/19 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Groove On
Yes your experience is normal. Digital pianos are not acoustic pianos. Get your hands on as many DPs as you can until you find one that is good enough for what you want to do. If none of them can pass your standards, stick with an acoustic piano.

FWIW - The best action, best piano simulation, best piano sound/response and the best speaker system are never-ending topics around here, so you should fit right in. That rabbit hole goes pretty deep. Good luck! grin


Yeah, that "getting my hands on as many DPs as I can" part is a bit problematic...I don't know why, but here in Tallahassee, all merchants have that weird stance "sorry, we only have these..." (mostly springy entry-level synths) "...try Atlanta/Tampa/...". Just yesterday I had a guy owning a shop telling me a lot of weird crap and showing me his rewards from years ago for selling most pianos, while his current stock are old, discontinued models. But I partly understand it, for a small shop, keeping huge stock of new instruments is probably not possible without financially ruining themselves.

I'm slowly starting to turn my attention to other brands, not just Kawai. Most google searches yield the same results: websites telling me that "we cannot ship this to your country", some models hardly yield any results: CA67 with GF II is discontinued, no stores that would have it are showing up, CA78 shows up on kawaius, but that's just an online shop...online sale with pianos simply does not work, it's like buying a car online, who would do that? I'm not buying a piano without trying it just like I'm not buying a car without driving it first.

I noticed that people praise Yamaha CLP 685 (GrandTouch action) and 675. Again, not in stores, just online.

This whole thing is frustrating if one's living in a city like this.

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Chopin Acolyte #2858015 06/13/19 05:42 AM
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I will just address some of your points.

Action:
Probably most DP's allow changing the touch sensitivity, so that eg. a medium touch may give PP, and a very heavy touch is required to produce FF. It could also be changed in the other direction. On my DP there are five levels.

Dynamics: Sampled sounds are limited by the number of samples per key (sampled at different levels of force applied), and sampling is expensive, therefore the number of samples is not very large. This limits the variability of timbre. In theory, modelled piano sounds do not suffer from this limitation at all. As far as I know, only Roland does modelled piano sounds. An alternative would be a VST using modelling (like Pianoteq).

Pedal: not all pedals are on/off. It depends on model.

I use a Roland FP-30 (with sampled sound); it was an entry level DP, but it works well for me. I experience hardly any difficulty going between that and my parents old European grand (which has a touch so heavy that pianists used to modern grands would be shocked).


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Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Chopin Acolyte #2858016 06/13/19 05:45 AM
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Yes, regular digital pianos are lacking compared to acoustic pianos. Even the best ones, no exception. The only way is a hybrid piano. Provided of course you really can't live with a digital action. As someone else pointed out in another thread, even a soft synth action is good enough and you need to learn to live with it and practice rather than complaining. On the other hand I am one of those consumerists type of pianists and I simply bought a hybrid piano and am more than happy smile

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Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Chopin Acolyte #2858017 06/13/19 05:50 AM
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No DP that I am aware of has a realistic let-off feel. The let-off bump is extremely useful on an acoustic, but not much use on a digital as it doesn't really do anything.

I have a Roland FP-90 and don't really have any problem transferring between it and a grand, but I think that's because I've learned to accommodate the differences somehow.

For me the only problems are pp trills, which are hard to practise effectively without let-off simulation, and fast fortissimo octaves in the bass, as the keys feel a bit light on my digital. Other than that, I think it's fine. While there are heavier feeling digitals, I don't think I've ever played one that feels like a grand in the bass.

Maybe this isn't of any use to you, as it's only my particular experience, but I think once the response is right, I don't really mind.

Of course with and AvantGrand or Novus things are different.

Last edited by johnstaf; 06/13/19 05:51 AM.
Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Chopin Acolyte #2858019 06/13/19 06:00 AM
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If a (used?) yamaha nu1 or nu1x is not in your price range, i'd say a vpc1 with a good vst is your best option. You can put it on a desk or something, and a pedal slipping away is always fixable, but i don't think the pedal units with 3 pedals will actually slip away.

I haven't tried it myself yet, but i believe the vpc1 rm3 grand ii action is actually a little heavier than both grand feel 1 and 2. (Correct me if im wrong)

Or maybe you can find a used Kawai ca67? I believe it has grand feel 2 action, and should be reasonably affordable if you may find one. And you could always use it as a vst controller if you happen to not like the build in sounds, same with the nu1/nu1x. I have seen a few used nu1's before, they were offered around €2500. So with a bit of patience and/or luck maybe you could have a real upright action with probably a little budget stretching.


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Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
johnstaf #2858020 06/13/19 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf

...
Of course with and AvantGrand or Novus things are different.


What about Yamaha CLP 675 and 685? Is the GrandTouch better? I can only find it online, I wish there was a store that has CLP on display...

Also, I looked into the spreadsheet on this forum and I found one person bought Kawai CA78 for $2900 (delivery included). Now that sounds certainly more affordable than the 5k it usually retails for. I'd certainly be able to afford $2900, but not $5000. My local dealer tells me that he buys for retail price so he absolutely cannot drop the price (when I tried to speak up about adjusting his prices he cut me off telling me "go buy online, SON"). If this is true then 1) he is not a good businessman, and certainly not a Kawai dealer, he is just a re-seller of goods. 2) I know for sure that markups on musical instruments are very high, so yes, even dropping the price from $5000 to $2900 is possible. Not all dealers are willing to talk prices, though.

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
U3piano #2858023 06/13/19 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by U3piano
If a (used?) yamaha nu1 or nu1x is not in your price range, i'd say a vpc1 with a good vst is your best option. You can put it on a desk or something, and a pedal slipping away is always fixable, but i don't think the pedal units with 3 pedals will actually slip away.

I haven't tried it myself yet, but i believe the vpc1 rm3 grand ii action is actually a little heavier than both grand feel 1 and 2. (Correct me if im wrong)

Or maybe you can find a used Kawai ca67? I believe it has grand feel 2 action.



You're right! With Kawai, this seems to be my best options. With VPC1 I'd need a good software (~ $200 or more) and good speakers (also ~ $200 or more), so the price is at least $2000 in the end. Therefore I'm still considering other options (I checked the spreadsheet telling how much others paid for theirs and with good deals I can get a much better setup within the same price range).

With Yamaha I'm looking into Clavinova 675 or 685, it seems that with a bit of negotiation and stretching my budged it might be possible. Not sure. I haven't tried it, so I don't know how it feels, but people praise it.

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Chopin Acolyte #2858025 06/13/19 06:12 AM
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Things like Sustain Pedal Resonance, and Sympathetic String Resonance in particular, are often set "OFF" by default by manufacturers, even when their product does include this feature...

Examples...
V3 Piano hardware piano module obvious default presets 01 (Bosendorfer) and 02 (Steinway) have NO resonance - you have to go to much later presets 81 and 82 to hear pedal resonance ON in any appreciable amount!

VSL CFX software and VSL Steinway D software has "sympathetic = -infinity dB" resonance OFF by default!!!! even in turned off in ALL of their official promo videos on YouTube.

The reason those manufactures prefer it off by default is because, in the case of hardware module like V3, it robs polyphony. In the case of VSL software, because their implementation of string and pedal resonance is so [censored] poor that it's distracting and spoils the sound so much it's actually better without it. And also it probably drains extra CPU power too of course.

Other companies that have had proper sympathetic string resonance for years like GEM and Kawai, still have it set fairly low by default. Those instruments only really come alive when you go dig through the settings and actually turn up the string resonance to a more realistic audible level. (GEM RealPiano module had no way to do this, but most Kawai digital pianos do thankfully.)

Synthogy Ivory didn't have proper sympathetic string resonance until version II, and even now they have the "0dB default" level set fairly low and you really need to turn it up a bit for a more realistic sound.

Your other observations about digital pianos vs acoustic are pretty true.
The main weakness of digital pianos is the loudspeaker system you hear them through. Whether it's built into the cabinet of a domestic digital piano (upright or baby grand style) or whether it's a stage piano or software running through some little bookshelf size studio monitors in your bedroom or a pair of cheap 2-way active plastic PA speakers. Frankly none of these can do justice to a concert grand piano sonic experience.
The cabinet digital piano's typical built-in 6.5 inch woofers NEVER have enough deep bass extension to replicate a 9 foot Steinway, nor the power, SPL and dynamic headroom to reproduce clean transient ffff peaks without distortion, so obviously manufacturers use all sorts of engineering workarounds to compress / limit and restrict the max output levels, or add Waves MaxxBass type effects to pretend there's bass extension where they've actually HPF filtered most of the very low bass out of the samples. It's a joke. To any serious audiophile.

If you've ever heard a digital piano or software piano being played back through a decent speaker system (think at least 4 way, or 3 way with subwoofers, and serious FIR corrected amplitude and phase responses, and FIR linear phase crossovers, etc. and capable of over 120dBSPL pink noise at the listening position without clipping the amplifiers) then you would be actually surprised to hear that many digital or software samples sound pretty good, and their velocity curves can be re-adjusted to give you a really convincing ffff punch at a believable SPL that matches the feel of a big concert grand in dynamic power, if that's what you want.

Remember also, that NO loudspeaker playback of a digital sampled piano (however good the speakers are) is ever going to fool you into thinking you're playing a real acoustic piano for numerous reasons.
It's only ever a recording of a piano being reproduced (a sonic 2 dimensional picture if you like) so you shouldn't expect the digital piano to sound more convincing than any other straightfoward recording of an acoustic piano. If you record your Steinway grand and play back, are you convinced you're hearing the real thing in front of you - no - but is that recording better or worse than the quality of "recording" you hear from a sampled piano playback if played through the same hi-fi speakers or headphones or whatever you listen on, keeping a level playing field...?

Before you buy a cabinet digital piano - play an iPod or CD player stereo track through the aux-in and the piano's built-in speakers and listen to how amazing audiophile hi-fi or NOT(!) the piano's loudspeaker system reproduction actually is. Chances are it's rather midrange peaky, and muffled, coloured, distorts at high volumes and totally lacking bass below 50Hz. There's your answer as to why that sampled piano experience sounds bad too.

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Chopin Acolyte #2858027 06/13/19 06:19 AM
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It's personal, me.. I would prefer one of the better kawai actions over all folded actions, because they have longer pivot points, have actual wooden keysticks and a seesaw mechanism, and therefore should be more like a real acoustic action. I don't know how important this actually is tough, it just seems better to me. And i liked these actions when i tried them, i just didn't like the sound of the kawai dp's. I think the only thing better than that is the real action in one of the hybrids.

Im considering a vpc1 myself.

Also, watch for sales if your looking for a good vst, sometimes they are about half the price. Or people selling them. I just bought Ravenscroft from one of our forum members, it's really nice. (Thanks Morten)

Last edited by U3piano; 06/13/19 06:28 AM.
Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
U3piano #2858028 06/13/19 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by U3piano
It's personal, me.. I would prefer one of the better kawai actions over all folded actions, because they have longer pivot points, have actual wooden keysticks and a seesaw mechanism, and therefore should be more like a real acoustic action. I don't know how important this actually is tough, it just seems better to me. And i liked these actions when i tried them, i just didn't like the sound of the kawai dp's. I think the only thing better than that is the real action in one of the hybrids.

Im considering a vpc1 myself.


I see, I saw another thread here showing the GrandTouch action and it really seems to be folding under the keys, which is less ideal than the wooden keysticks with seesaw and hammers striking upward. VPC1 might be a good choice, but you have to have a good software (I tried pianoteq a few years ago and was confused on how to get a real sound out of it...no luck) and good speakers. Good speakers are expensive, as well as software.

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Chopin Acolyte #2858029 06/13/19 06:29 AM
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Keep in mind that some people also hate it (GrandTouch action).
I have a P515 which uses the same action as the CLP645 (closer to your budget). As with everything else, some like it; others hate it. I love it; however, I don’t use the on-board sound of the P515. I’m running Pianoteq6 through the on-board speakers. I’ve also played the CA95 (GF) and like you, I felt that the action was too light and fluffy. The P515 feels just right -for me- in that regard.
Also, you might want to try -before you buy- a CA78. Based on some reviews ‘round here, it seems like there’s not much of a difference between GF and GF2; especially in terms of key weight.

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Pete14 #2858031 06/13/19 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Keep in mind that some people also hate it (GrandTouch action).
I have a P515 which uses the same action as the CLP645 (closer to your budget). As with everything else, some like it; others hate it. I love it; however, I don’t use the on-board sound of the P515. I’m running Pianoteq6 through the on-board speakers. I’ve also played the CA95 (GF) and like you, I felt that the action was too light and fluffy. The P515 feels just right -for me- in that regard.
Also, you might want to try -before you buy- a CA78. Based on some reviews ‘round here, it seems like there’s not much of a difference between GF and GF2; especially in terms of key weight.


Thank you for your valuable input!

I was communicating with a local merchant about the possibility of getting P-515 so I can demo it, but at some point he just stopped answering emails (about 2 weeks ago), so I'm not sure...I'm literally shouting "TAKE MY MONEY" and people are like...nah.

Yes, I wouldn't buy such a high model as CA78 without trying it first. I hope sometime I manage to get elsewhere so I hopefully bump into a larger showroom where I can try those models. You're right with the fluffy feeling of GF.

So do you like Pianoteq 6? I quickly looked up what I tried a few years ago, it was Pianoteq 2.3, not sounding pleasant at all.

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Chopin Acolyte #2858032 06/13/19 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Pagan Min

VPC1 might be a good choice, but you have to have a good software (I tried pianoteq a few years ago and was confused on how to get a real sound out of it...no luck) and good speakers. Good speakers are expensive, as well as software.


From my own experience i find making a vst sound good on speakers is quite problematic. I bought a pair of jbl lsr 305's for that purpose, these monitors were recommended to me, but im disappointed with the result. Maybe they are too small, and probably could use an added subwoofer for piano, but i think the problem is really the room, i have not treated it with bass traps etc. The monitors sound fine to me with any kind of music and i like them, but i just can't get a vst piano to sound good at all.

I always play with headphones, and it sounds fantastic.

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Chopin Acolyte #2858033 06/13/19 06:41 AM
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It seems strange to me that some people really miss such a relics of acoustic pianos as damper noise or not instant hammer response. There are special settings od some DP that allow users to set really loud damper noise and hammer response so slow that you will hear sound only 0,2 sec after you pressed the key. I do not understand that. If we are able to get rid of those acoustic disadvantages, why should we emulate them? Acoustic lovers will always say "this thing does not sound real" no matter if it has damper noise emulation on not.


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Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
U3piano #2858035 06/13/19 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by U3piano

From my own experience i find making a vst sound good on speakers is quite problematic. I bought a pair of jbl lsr 305's for that purpose, these monitors were recommended to me, but im disappointed with the result. Maybe they are too small, and probably could use an added subwoofer for piano, but i think the problem is really the room, i have not treated it with bass traps etc. The monitors sound fine to me with any kind of music and i like them, but i just can't get a vst piano to sound good.


Good to know, and this is something that's probably hard to demo in a shop... smirk

Originally Posted by U3piano

I always play with headphones, and it sounds fantastic.


Oh yes, I intend to do some night practice so headphones are definitely relevant. If I can't make the speakers work to my satisfaction, I can use headphones. However, headphones are expensive, too (although not as much as speakears, necessarily). My roommate owns Sennheiser HD558, I like those, but it cost him around $200. Not a terrible price, but not negligible, either.

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Chopin Acolyte #2858039 06/13/19 06:58 AM
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Oh yes, I love Pianoteq6!
If you’re ‘new’ to it, there’s a bit of a learning curve. I recommend reading the manual, watching videos, asking here (or at Pianoteq’s user forum).
If you get the Pro version, you will have note-per-note control on almost anything you can imagine. I do not believe that there’s any other piano VST out there that gives the user such level of control on a note-per-note basis.
This can be time-consuming, but the best way to approach it is bit by bit. For example, as you play take ‘notes’ of things that you would like to improve (note volume, dynamics, etc..) and then go in there and work at it.
There is a free demo available (some notes don’t play) that you should try, but keep in mind that this a representation of the raw/untreated experience; in other words, once you get in there and start tweaking things around to your liking, the potential for a vastly improved experience is there. At least that’s been my experience. smile

Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Chopin Acolyte #2858042 06/13/19 07:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 892
U
500 Post Club Member
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500 Post Club Member
U
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 892
Originally Posted by Pagan Min
[quote=U3piano]
Oh yes, I intend to do some night practice so headphones are definitely relevant. If I can't make the speakers work to my satisfaction, I can use headphones. However, headphones are expensive, too (although not as much as speakears, necessarily). My roommate owns Sennheiser HD558, I like those, but it cost him around $200. Not a terrible price, but not negligible, either.


I ran into the same problem and bought a pair of these:


https://m.thomann.de/nl/superlux_hd_662_bk_evo.htm

To me they sound fantastic, and are like... almost free. laugh

These get raving reviews, that's why i bought them (blind) after lots of research on the web and with these.. I'm far from disappointed. I also modded them a little, wich was really easy and also reversable, i can't really tell if that made a real difference but they do sound really good. Some audiophile people put this mod on the internet and tested it, showing graphic tests about it beeing even better modded, flatter response etc. I think i can still find all that if you want. I highly recommend these headphones. I read about people actually saying they are comparable to some of these €200 Sennheisers for example. Unbelievable price/quality, if you ask me.

(Fixed the link)

Last edited by U3piano; 06/13/19 07:10 AM. Reason: W
Re: What DPs really lack (compared to the acoustic pianos)
Pete14 #2858043 06/13/19 07:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 321
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 321
Originally Posted by Pete14
Oh yes, I love Pianoteq6!
If you’re ‘new’ to it, there’s a bit of a learning curve. I recommend reading the manual, watching videos, asking here (or at Pianoteq’s user forum).
If you get the Pro version, you will have note-per-note control on almost anything you can imagine. I do not believe that there’s any other piano VST out there that gives the user such level of control on a note-per-note basis.
This can be time-consuming, but the best way to approach it is bit by bit. For example, as you play take ‘notes’ of things that you would like to improve (note volume, dynamics, etc..) and then go in there and work at it.
There is a free demo available (some notes don’t play) that you should try, but keep in mind that this a representation of the raw/untreated experience; in other words, once you get in there and start tweaking things around to your liking, the potential for a vastly improved experience is there. At least that’s been my experience. smile


Thank you! What is the max polyphony of Pianoteq? Some users seem to justify the lack of resonance by "expensive polyphony", does that mean that I have to pay more for more polyphony? I tried the trial version, I could hear the sympathetic resonance...I looked into the list of instruments, but I could not see Bosendorfer Imperial...are there other instruments available for download, or does one need to pay?

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