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Advice needed - Best Value for Money Piano #2857906 06/12/19 05:25 PM
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nezha Offline OP
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Hi everyone,

I have no experience in any musical instrument and also new to this forum. I searched some thread in this forum and learned quite a lot. However, I did not see anyone thread similar to my situation so I decided to open a new thread and ask for advice. I really love the atmosphere here. It is probably because of the magic of music. Any advice I receive from you is greatly appreciated.

Background of my family:

I am a father of a 2-year-old and a new born. I would like to provide both of my kids with opportunity to explore the music world and wants to start them with piano. I know it is going to be a long journey for them but I wish to provide them with enough resources. How they do is up to them in the future. I read online that children can start taking lesson as early as 5 years old. also, I should have a piano at home so the kids know that piano is a part of normal life. They can also explore this expensive baby prior to learning.

Choice to be made:

I'd like to go with acoustic preferably a high quality one. I will maintain them regularly in the future. Since I have very limited knowledge about piano and I am not sure how my kids will do in the future, our piano will probably just be a piece of furniture for 3 years. Maybe occasionally my wife can play for fun. I have not decided on a budget yet. My initial thought is probably around 20k but it can be increased/decreased depend on what product I go with. However it should probably be no more than 50k for their first piano.

My objective is to get a piano with the best value for money in term of performance and reliability(quality) . This opinion is subjective and everyone has their own opinions. Especially for piano, performance is probably sound quality, key feel, etc. It can be subjective. As long as you have an opinion, yours is better than mine because i have none due to my limited knowledge blush

Let me take an example of vehicles. My choice of a 7-seater SUV is a Audi Q7. It ranked very high in Consumer Reports in term of overall score (balance of driving experience, reliability, safety features, noise, etc). Even if I have the money, I will not go with a Bentley SUV because an Audi Q7 has better value for money in term of performance and reliability. Bentley SUV and Audi Q7 are based on the same platform and has the same chassis. Don't get me wrong, a premium brand and luxury interior finish of a vehicle also has value. But I'd not like to pay a large premium for features not related to quality, performance, and functionality of the product. A small premium can be considered though.

I apologize if my analogy is not appropriate. I am a blank piece of paper with no personal preference on any brand/model. what would you choose if you were in my situation? Any suggestion is much appreciated.

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Re: Advice needed - Best Value for Money Piano [Re: nezha] #2857916 06/12/19 06:48 PM
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I think what you need to realize is that like most items, the increase in quality as pianos get more expensive is not proportional to the price. Because of this, some would argue that none of the best pianos are good value for the money. It's more reasonable to ask what pianos are the best value at different price points but since your budget range is very large that would be difficult to answer.

At a given price point there is also always the decision with no clear answer between getting a longer or taller(which is generally an advantage) somewhat lower quality piano vs. a shorter but higher quality piano. Or a higher quality vertical vs. a lower quality grand.

Besides getting opinions at PianoWorld(which will probably be all over the place, without any clear result), you should read articles in the Piano Buyer(see link in left hand column) that deal with what to look for and how to go through the process of buying a piano.

Another good thing to look at are the staff picks in the Piano Buyer.


Last edited by pianoloverus; 06/12/19 06:55 PM.
Re: Advice needed - Best Value for Money Piano [Re: nezha] #2857928 06/12/19 07:39 PM
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I don't see any need to spend that much money for your first piano.

In your case a brand new Kawai K-500 or Yamaha equivalent will be an excellent choice. Not sure where you are located but you should be able to find a beautiful brand new instrument for about 7-8K.

That piano will serve you and your family well.


When you play, never mind who listens to you. R.Schumann.

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Re: Advice needed - Best Value for Money Piano [Re: nezha] #2857953 06/12/19 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Learux
I don't see any need to spend that much money for your first piano.

In your case a brand new Kawai K-500 or Yamaha equivalent will be an excellent choice. Not sure where you are located but you should be able to find a beautiful brand new instrument for about 7-8K.

That piano will serve you and your family well.

Very good advice. If you spent $100,000+ on a Steinway or Bosendorfer grand and left it sit barely played for 3 ... or many more ... years, it would be a waste in reality. If they ended up being rising stars in 15 years, then spend up big.

As Learux mentioned - mid-upper KAWAI or YAMAHA (or equivalents in other brands) are great pianos, robust, good sound. I've got a very expensive prestige piano here at my home, but still enjoy my Mum's YAMAHA equivalent to the KAWAI K-500.

Your comment "I am not sure how my kids will do in the future, our piano will probably just be a piece of furniture for 3 years. Maybe occasionally my wife can play for fun" - invites me to comment.

We had a piano basically YAMAHA's equivalent to a KAWAI K-800 when my children were born. I played it regularly - they saw and heard it being played - I've got photos of them cradled by me while I played nursery rhymes and Sunday school songs to them as newborns (and of all my grandchildren) - as per this slideshow:

https://youtu.be/XJKGeUvnR0U

Once they were toddlers, the piano was open 24 hrs a day and, because they heard the piano played every evening, and were at the piano for singing most days, they were confident to go to the piano, reach up and tinkle on the keys, which they did often. If they resorted to banging it, we'd just suggest "tinkly" and they'd go back to tinkling gently. They also had mostly classical music with a little other childrens music, Church music and Jazz playing constantly to expose them to hearing music.

They knew it was a fun thing, and when they went to lessons at about 4-5yrs old, the lessons were just an extension of their previous experience. In fact, I remember one of my children, the teacher started up by demonstrating that the "high" notes are at this end, and the "low" notes are down there - she looked at me as if to say "doesn't everyone know that?".

They each now have a great ear for music, one has a B.Music, another did Conservatory studies. Between them, they learned 14 instruments (though they don't own them all now).

So - when you get your new piano, the most important thing is to expose them to music - play the piano as much as you can so they hear and are excited by it.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: Advice needed - Best Value for Money Piano [Re: nezha] #2857969 06/12/19 11:32 PM
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Kawai K300 or K500 or Yamaha U1 or U3 are excellent pianos
for music students.A very good ,one of the best uprights is
the YUS5 though more expensive than the other Yamaha pianos.
If you can up your budget a bit perhaps a good German piano
like Sauter or Schimmel would be good with great tone and action.
A Boston upright designed by Steinways but MADE by Kawai
is cheaper than the Sauter or Schimmel piano.
Boston pianos have a lovely mellow tone.
Kawai K500 have a darker tone than the Yamaha pianos.
The tone of the Yamaha YUS5 is different to the U1 or U3 which are
brighter.This one is also more on the mellow side.It has German
piano wire and hammers that are used in one of the best Yamaha
grand pianos.Best wishes on finding your piano.

Re: Advice needed - Best Value for Money Piano [Re: nezha] #2857991 06/13/19 01:12 AM
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Since you are willing to pay up for high status (Audi instead of Toyota), I would suggest looking at the Performance Grade Piano section of the pianobuyer.com website (https://www.pianobuyer.com/article/a-map-of-the-market-for-new-pianos-ratings/)

In most parts of the US, only Yamaha and Steinways are widely available.

Re: Advice needed - Best Value for Money Piano [Re: nezha] #2857993 06/13/19 01:21 AM
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The Yamaha C7X is an expensive piano, but really good value for money. If I were shopping for a piano but could buy something expensive without spending insane money, that would be at the top of my list of pianos to try.

Re: Advice needed - Best Value for Money Piano [Re: johnstaf] #2857995 06/13/19 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
The Yamaha C7X is an expensive piano, but really good value for money. If I were shopping for a piano but could buy something expensive without spending insane money, that would be at the top of my list of pianos to try.


Steinway B has a special place in my heart, but if I was spending my own money for a new piano, yeah, C7X.

Last edited by redfish1901; 06/13/19 01:35 AM.
Re: Advice needed - Best Value for Money Piano [Re: nezha] #2858004 06/13/19 03:18 AM
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You always pay a premium for the Germans/Italian. No need.

I play a Yamaha C7, and I drive an Audi SQ7, so you know I'm on the right track.

PS If you are in USA, they don't sell the SQ7 in USA. Your loss.

Re: Advice needed - Best Value for Money Piano [Re: nezha] #2858010 06/13/19 04:06 AM
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Yes, I agree a Steinway B - or a YAMAHA C7 are great pianos. Mine is Grotrian's equivalent to a Steinway B.

You mentioned the AUDI - but that brings a quandary.

Personally - if I were to have a piano which I wanted to encourage little children - sometimes with sticky fingers, and other similar habits, I'd still be inclined to get a good serviceable reliable upright. From a musical point of view, there would be no difference to their musical appreciation or education whether they had a basic upright or a prestige grand. But - having to unduly supervise a prestige grand, appreciating it for the furniture it is, could be detrimental to their musical education.

When my children were small, as I said in my post above, they had access to the piano all waking hours - and certainly took us up on that open-ness, regularly going to it and fiddling before they'd started learning - and after learning, having their music on the music stand, they'd often wander over and play, sometimes just for a minute or 2..

But - if it were a Steinway or even a C7 - I'd have been a bit (lot) more caring for the piano, restricting it to some - even a large extent.

I've had my Grotrian, my dream piano, for 6 or 7 years now - and when the grandchildren come to visit, they're allowed to play/tinkle at the piano - but not unsupervised. The last thing you want is an $80k or $140k piano covered with scratches, or a drink spilled on the keyboard.

My suggestion - reading your initial question - is to buy a robust, new good upright which you're prepared to "sacrifice" - and, as I mentioned above, if they're prodigies, when they're teens and able to care for a valuable instrument, buy one then. And a YAMAHA/KAWAI are relatively easy to sell, as the brands are well known for making reliable pianos.

The risk, if you bought a prestige piano today, and allowed them good free access and exposure to the piano, by the time they were responsible enough to enjoy it for it's musical depth, it won't look like a prestige piano - and possibly could be in need of some serious servicing.

Don't forget, no matter the piano, it's going to need regular servicing. Most manufacturers suggest 3 or 4 services in the first year, then 2 services a year from then on - something which is overlooked often by non-pianists.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: Advice needed - Best Value for Money Piano [Re: pianoloverus] #2858136 06/13/19 10:08 AM
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nezha Offline OP
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Thank you very much for all the awesome suggestions! Let me respond in sequence.

First of all, thank you @pianoloverus for providing me with a "staff picks" in the Piano Buyers. It's a great shortcut (for me at least) to understand the value / price points of each popular model.

Secondly, thank you @Learux for the Kawai K-500 or Yamaha equivalent idea. I saw Yamaha U1 in the "staff pick" link but the size doesn't match. For the equivalent, should it be Yamaha U3?

Also, thank you @backto_study_piano for the video link that really inspired me. I want to follow your methodology and give my children both supervised and unsupervised access to the piano at all waking hours. Your comment is the deciding factor for my choice. Thank you for sharing with me.

@Lady Bird thank you for providing me with different options at different price points. I want to look more into the Boston upright designed by Steinways but MADE by Kawai.

@johnstaf @redfish1901 Thanks for the suggestion of Yamaha C7X or Steinway B. They are over my initial budget of 20k and also over my cap of 50k. Probably not suitable for our first one for education purpose. I will definitely look into them when my children can truly enjoy them. They fit the "best value for money" approach depending on "what is value". My value is performance and quality. so probably C7X is the winner here?

@CharlesXX, I'm in Toronto Canada (Let's go Raptors). We only have SQ5 and regular Q7 but I want a 7-seater


If I understand correctly, the consensus here is that for children's first piano that I am prepared to "sacrifice", I should choose from Kawai K-500, Kawai K-300, Yamaha U1, or Yamaha U3. Is there any other model that I should put into my shortlist? Also, in your opinion, which one from the four is your pick? Thank you again.

Re: Advice needed - Best Value for Money Piano [Re: nezha] #2858188 06/13/19 12:45 PM
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All those four are really solid pianos that play well and are reliable. There is a reason why they are recommended here time and time again :-)

But there is no point someone else picking from the list for you, they are all good but hey are also all different, you need to play them yourself (or at the very least listen to them) and pick the one that appeals the most. You *will* notice the difference and have a preference which may not be the same as anyone else.

P.S. Listen/play the *real* piano you might buy. Don't listen to a different piano of the same type and assume they will be the same, and most definitely don't try to judge by youtube or other recordings, listen to the real sound.

Last edited by gwing; 06/13/19 12:46 PM.
Re: Advice needed - Best Value for Money Piano [Re: nezha] #2858211 06/13/19 01:44 PM
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Hello nezha, if you are looking for an upright piano and reading the staff picks, then I would point to the first part of your post...Best Value for Money.

If that is the case, you should be paying closest attention to the few pianos that were marked as both "Musical Standout" and "Good Values"

For uprights, that included:
Hailun HU-5P
Knabe WKV132
Perzina GP122
Shulze Polmann SU122A

If Value is Performance/Price, I agree that those staff picks are some of the pianos that truly offer higher Value than some of the common, popular models. I could recommend others that are also like the staff picks, great brands and value, but perhaps not the most common. The others that forum members recommended are widely available and a good place to start.

With a budget of $20k - $50k, you could certainly be looking at small to medium grands. Also following the "Staff Picks", you'll see that the Highest Value pianos are great brands, but often not the best known brands. I would look at that list again.

I would point out that the one brand that is in both the high performance tier, and a staff pick for both "Musical Standout" and "Good Values" is Estonia. They are available new and for within your stated budget. No other premium maker is able to match Estonia for Value.


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Re: Advice needed - Best Value for Money Piano [Re: nezha] #2858213 06/13/19 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by nezha
Hi everyone,

I have no experience in any musical instrument and also new to this forum. I searched some thread in this forum and learned quite a lot. However, I did not see anyone thread similar to my situation so I decided to open a new thread and ask for advice. I really love the atmosphere here. It is probably because of the magic of music. Any advice I receive from you is greatly appreciated.

Background of my family:

I am a father of a 2-year-old and a new born. I would like to provide both of my kids with opportunity to explore the music world and wants to start them with piano. I know it is going to be a long journey for them but I wish to provide them with enough resources. How they do is up to them in the future. I read online that children can start taking lesson as early as 5 years old. also, I should have a piano at home so the kids know that piano is a part of normal life. They can also explore this expensive baby prior to learning.

Choice to be made:

I'd like to go with acoustic preferably a high quality one. I will maintain them regularly in the future. Since I have very limited knowledge about piano and I am not sure how my kids will do in the future, our piano will probably just be a piece of furniture for 3 years. Maybe occasionally my wife can play for fun. I have not decided on a budget yet. My initial thought is probably around 20k but it can be increased/decreased depend on what product I go with. However it should probably be no more than 50k for their first piano.

My objective is to get a piano with the best value for money in term of performance and reliability(quality) . This opinion is subjective and everyone has their own opinions. Especially for piano, performance is probably sound quality, key feel, etc. It can be subjective. As long as you have an opinion, yours is better than mine because i have none due to my limited knowledge blush

Let me take an example of vehicles. My choice of a 7-seater SUV is a Audi Q7. It ranked very high in Consumer Reports in term of overall score (balance of driving experience, reliability, safety features, noise, etc). Even if I have the money, I will not go with a Bentley SUV because an Audi Q7 has better value for money in term of performance and reliability. Bentley SUV and Audi Q7 are based on the same platform and has the same chassis. Don't get me wrong, a premium brand and luxury interior finish of a vehicle also has value. But I'd not like to pay a large premium for features not related to quality, performance, and functionality of the product. A small premium can be considered though.

I apologize if my analogy is not appropriate. I am a blank piece of paper with no personal preference on any brand/model. what would you choose if you were in my situation? Any suggestion is much appreciated.


The Kawai RX-2 has always been a great value in terms of performance and quality. I happen to have one on sale here. https://www.pianomart.com/buy-a-piano/view?id=37313. PM me if interested, its absolute fantastic piano perfect for all levels of play.

Last edited by Jethro; 06/13/19 01:51 PM.

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Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Chopin: G Minor Ballade
Schumann/Liszt Widmung

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Re: Advice needed - Best Value for Money Piano [Re: redfish1901] #2858217 06/13/19 01:55 PM
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The Kawai GX-7? Similar in size and price to the CX-7?

Last edited by awesome10; 06/13/19 01:55 PM.
Re: Advice needed - Best Value for Money Piano [Re: nezha] #2858253 06/13/19 03:04 PM
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A good upright is all you need at this stage.Kawai and Yamaha very
good.Higher end performance grade uprights include Bluthner,
Sauter,Bechstein,Schimmel and Seiler.These are among the best German made pianos.
The Sauter 122/130 size piano has what is known as the
" double repitition action" which is an action and response similar
to the action grand pianos have.
Try as many pianos as possible.Also look on Craigslist you sometimes find great bargains although new pianos have many benefits such as the warranty.

Re: Advice needed - Best Value for Money Piano [Re: nezha] #2858255 06/13/19 03:10 PM
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If only the kids are going to be playing, I wouldn’t make a purchase for another few years, at least. Having the piano around now is just an object upon which to inflict case damage, and if it has a warranty as part of the purchase, you’re burning through it during a period that the piano is sitting, unused.

Pianos are meant to be played, and some can develop minor regulation issues from disuse.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Advice needed - Best Value for Money Piano [Re: nezha] #2858294 06/13/19 04:30 PM
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It all depends how much you and your wife would like a piano in your home.A new piano should be regulated in a few months to a years
time anyway.Of course tuning at the very least ,once a year preferably
twice.
It is suggested you buy the floor model piano that you have actually
played.

Re: Advice needed - Best Value for Money Piano [Re: nezha] #2858305 06/13/19 05:05 PM
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It sounds like not a single family member knows how to play imo a grand of any size for this family is not necessary unless they want it for the furniture aspect.


When you play, never mind who listens to you. R.Schumann.

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Re: Advice needed - Best Value for Money Piano [Re: Learux] #2858309 06/13/19 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Learux
It sounds like not a single family member knows how to play imo a grand of any size for this family is not necessary unless they want it for the furniture aspect.


When I was about your oldest kid’s age, I loved to go ‘play around’ on the old console sitting in our living room just to hear how it sounds.... and developed a love of music because of that old clunker and Looney Tunes cartoons. Whatever you buy, I hope your children will be allowed to explore the sound of it.... even unsupervised😊


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

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