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Re: Advertising your rates on your website [Re: bennevis] #2857529
06/11/19 01:45 PM
06/11/19 01:45 PM
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Posts: 388
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Andamento Offline OP
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Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by Andamento
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
I've always wondered when I read these posts about "good" teachers and "bad" teachers. Who is the judge of that?

Well obviously - the "good" teachers are the judge! wink


The good teachers know they're not perfect, but keep striving to grow. smile

Good teachers will be qualified, and will be able to size up their students at a glance (OK, within a few minutes) and are able to embark on a 'teaching plan' that will enable their charge to blossom, even to flower 2hearts - to the best of his/her ability, of course. For beginners, they will use a well-tried and tested series of books that produce results, not some stupid fanciful trendy 'contemporary method book' that leave students confused about what musical notation etc is all about, and what is really important. (I've seen a few of the latter, which I don't doubt will be used as tinder for bonfires in a few years' time.....).

They know how to use gentle persuasion but also know when to be firm. And they know how to help those who have no talent and/or struggling with the basics.

And most of all - they teach all the basics properly, so that if circumstances change (student or teacher moving to another planet), the student will not be found wanting in any musical or technical skill commensurate with his/her level, by any subsequent teacher. And I do mean any musical or technical skill: sight-reading, aural skills, scales & arpeggios, theory, the lot.

Anything less - the 'piano teacher' has no right to call himself/herself a piano teacher and should go look for another job - or else learn how to be a real teacher before subjecting himself/herself on another victim.......

Yes, I do set high standards - but I had four teachers over a decade as a student, none of which I chose myself, yet they all provided me with all the requirements I stipulated above, even though they all differed greatly in personality (and even in sex wink ). And all my fellow piano students under various teachers (there were five peripatetic piano teachers who taught in my high school) similarly blossomed, so I don't think I was just "lucky". All the teachers were suitably qualified with teaching diplomas etc, and knew how to teach.


Well, yes, there's a lot more I could have said besides that one-sentence comment of mine, but I didn't want to take my thread far afield, which happens all too easily here. smile

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Re: Advertising your rates on your website [Re: AZNpiano] #2857561
06/11/19 04:07 PM
06/11/19 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
As I said, I don't share the general negativity that is pervasive on this subforum. I know friends who are in the industry and they don't either.

Well, maybe your friends in the industry live inside a bubble? Just last night I came across two websites of "teachers" in my area. One is still in high school. She advertises lessons for $15/hour, after having taken piano for 9 years. The other "teacher," who is closer to my age, puts her students' performances on her website. The level of playing is pathetic. There's yet a third website that has a picture of students dressed up in Halloween costumes on the main page. I can't find anything about the teacher's education or qualifications.

My reality is that I'm constantly going up against hacks and wannabes. I didn't coin the term Transfer Wrecks for no reason.



Why does it have to be my friends in the industry who live in a bubble? Why can't our areas be simply very different and that our realities are also extremely different? Is CA the centre of the pianoverse?

I've read many of your posts and I can't believe you're still teaching based on being so negative about your profession, your students and your fellow teachers.

I will bow out now because it really isn't worth arguing with someone who has such a jaded view of the world.

Re: Advertising your rates on your website [Re: WeakLeftHand] #2857572
06/11/19 04:42 PM
06/11/19 04:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,229
Orange County, CA
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Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
I will bow out now because it really isn't worth arguing with someone who has such a jaded view of the world.

LMAO wow


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: Advertising your rates on your website [Re: Andamento] #2857584
06/11/19 05:55 PM
06/11/19 05:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,472
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Re: Advertising your rates on your website [Re: Andamento] #2857612
06/11/19 08:45 PM
06/11/19 08:45 PM
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Probably the best private piano teacher in my state to non-professionals lists her prices on her first page, and they’re unashamedly high.

She knows she’s among the best there is and is in such high demand that she doesn’t like to waste any time. She doesn’t even do an initial meeting. Her students achieve perfect results most of the time so her website says all that really needs to be said.

Re: Advertising your rates on your website [Re: Mariner] #2857801
06/12/19 01:24 PM
06/12/19 01:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,229
Orange County, CA
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Originally Posted by Mariner
Probably the best private piano teacher in my state to non-professionals lists her prices on her first page, and they’re unashamedly high.

She knows she’s among the best there is and is in such high demand that she doesn’t like to waste any time. She doesn’t even do an initial meeting. Her students achieve perfect results most of the time so her website says all that really needs to be said.

In my area, only a few high-caliber teachers bother to put up a website. Some are obviously there to brag about student achievements and list competitions won. But, to my surprise, a lot of REALLY good piano teachers here don't have any web presence at all. It's like they deliberately remove themselves from cyberspace, if that's even possible. Their students might put Youtube videos up, and then mention the teacher's name incidentally, but the teachers themselves don't have websites.

I wonder why?


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: Advertising your rates on your website [Re: AZNpiano] #2857813
06/12/19 01:54 PM
06/12/19 01:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,303
Virginia, USA
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Originally Posted by AZNpiano
But, to my surprise, a lot of REALLY good piano teachers here don't have any web presence at all.

I wonder why?


Could be a generation thing?


gotta go practice
Re: Advertising your rates on your website [Re: TimR] #2857816
06/12/19 02:05 PM
06/12/19 02:05 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,565
Florida
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Originally Posted by TimR
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
But, to my surprise, a lot of REALLY good piano teachers here don't have any web presence at all.

I wonder why?


Could be a generation thing?


Maybe they prefer to get new students through word-of-mouth rather than advertising.

Last edited by dogperson; 06/12/19 02:06 PM.
Re: Advertising your rates on your website [Re: dogperson] #2857824
06/12/19 02:32 PM
06/12/19 02:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 388
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by TimR
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
But, to my surprise, a lot of REALLY good piano teachers here don't have any web presence at all.

I wonder why?


Could be a generation thing?


Maybe they prefer to get new students through word-of-mouth rather than advertising.


The vast majority of students I've gotten have been through word-of-mouth. I think it's still the best way to build one's business.

But it was the frequent "you've-got-to-have-a-web-presence-these-days" mantra I kept reading that finally made me decide to start a business website. Setting it up, though, was a pain (maybe because I'm not of the young and tech-savvy age), despite using a site builder that many labeled as easy and user-friendly. I needed lots of help from those more able than I to do such things, and still, two years later, have moments where I feel like tearing my hair out when trying to add or change things up a bit. crazy

Re: Advertising your rates on your website [Re: AZNpiano] #2857834
06/12/19 02:59 PM
06/12/19 02:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,207
Canada
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Personal opinion, but maybe by now I know a bit:

(So imho) The most difficult job to do well, and not nearly respected enough, is that of the teacher of beginners. All the foundations, the basic concepts - which must be absorbed in the senses, in the hands, in the ears, and not just the mind - are planted at this time. Or should be. Meanwhile, I'm not convinced that the learning of these essential things are easily visible externally. For example: a child learns to understand how music works a little bit, and figure it out. A child learns how to work on music in small sections, the hardest parts first. The child gets the processes right; the skills in that sense. The end product - the final played piece --- at the recital; in the exam; in grades --- will not reflect this.

Turn this around another way. A student plays in an exam or at a recital. His teacher has choreographed every hand motion; spent inordinate time on this piece, and only given him four pieces to play all year. What do the resulting high grades tell us about the child's abilities that will enable him to independently work out music, or the kinds of skills in my first paragraph? I'd say, not much.

I've seen sites of teachers over the years, some of them featuring their students at recitals. The only time one told me anything about the teaching was the one where all the students vaguely played in rushed clumps in a way an untaught amateur might play. The "perfectly performed playing" did not tell me the things I wanted to know about the teaching.

One site did tell me something. This teacher filmed parts of lessons. As he pointed things out, the student penciled it into his notation. As the teacher sat to show something, a teen student smoothly slid out of the way, and slid back into place to do what had been shown - that told me something about the teacher-student relationship. At one point, when the student was playing, the page started to slide, teacher pinned the sheet with his hand, student kept playing - the attentiveness, and the cooperation between the two told me loads.

Re: Advertising your rates on your website [Re: TimR] #2857842
06/12/19 03:17 PM
06/12/19 03:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,229
Orange County, CA
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Originally Posted by TimR
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
But, to my surprise, a lot of REALLY good piano teachers here don't have any web presence at all.

I wonder why?


Could be a generation thing?

Some of those REALLY good piano teachers are my age. I have a website. It's not rocket science. Are older piano teachers _that_ technically challenged?


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: Advertising your rates on your website [Re: AZNpiano] #2857851
06/12/19 03:36 PM
06/12/19 03:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 388
USA
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Andamento Offline OP
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USA
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by TimR
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
But, to my surprise, a lot of REALLY good piano teachers here don't have any web presence at all.

I wonder why?


Could be a generation thing?

Some of those REALLY good piano teachers are my age. I have a website. It's not rocket science. Are older piano teachers _that_ technically challenged?


This one is somewhat, LOL.

I suspect I'm older than you, though. Were you born during the Kennedy Administration? wink

Re: Advertising your rates on your website [Re: dogperson] #2857874
06/12/19 04:47 PM
06/12/19 04:47 PM
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Posts: 518
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Originally Posted by dogperson
[/quote]

Maybe they prefer to get new students through word-of-mouth rather than advertising.

I think this hits the nail on the head.

Last edited by pianoMom2006; 06/12/19 04:48 PM.

Yamaha G2
Re: Advertising your rates on your website [Re: AZNpiano] #2857892
06/12/19 05:39 PM
06/12/19 05:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,472
*sigh* Salt Lake City
malkin Offline
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Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by TimR
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
But, to my surprise, a lot of REALLY good piano teachers here don't have any web presence at all.

I wonder why?


Could be a generation thing?

Some of those REALLY good piano teachers are my age. I have a website. It's not rocket science. Are older piano teachers _that_ technically challenged?


Perhaps they have enough students as it is. And they have enough other activities to fill their time.


Learner
Re: Advertising your rates on your website [Re: keystring] #2857920
06/12/19 08:20 PM
06/12/19 08:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 388
USA
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Andamento Offline OP
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USA
Originally Posted by keystring
Personal opinion, but maybe by now I know a bit:

(So imho) The most difficult job to do well, and not nearly respected enough, is that of the teacher of beginners. All the foundations, the basic concepts - which must be absorbed in the senses, in the hands, in the ears, and not just the mind - are planted at this time. Or should be. Meanwhile, I'm not convinced that the learning of these essential things are easily visible externally. For example: a child learns to understand how music works a little bit, and figure it out. A child learns how to work on music in small sections, the hardest parts first. The child gets the processes right; the skills in that sense. The end product - the final played piece --- at the recital; in the exam; in grades --- will not reflect this.

Turn this around another way. A student plays in an exam or at a recital. His teacher has choreographed every hand motion; spent inordinate time on this piece, and only given him four pieces to play all year. What do the resulting high grades tell us about the child's abilities that will enable him to independently work out music, or the kinds of skills in my first paragraph? I'd say, not much.

I've seen sites of teachers over the years, some of them featuring their students at recitals. The only time one told me anything about the teaching was the one where all the students vaguely played in rushed clumps in a way an untaught amateur might play. The "perfectly performed playing" did not tell me the things I wanted to know about the teaching.

One site did tell me something. This teacher filmed parts of lessons. As he pointed things out, the student penciled it into his notation. As the teacher sat to show something, a teen student smoothly slid out of the way, and slid back into place to do what had been shown - that told me something about the teacher-student relationship. At one point, when the student was playing, the page started to slide, teacher pinned the sheet with his hand, student kept playing - the attentiveness, and the cooperation between the two told me loads.


I have a student who largely learned this way with his first teacher. He learned to read almost nothing, and in a sightreading situation with peers not taught by his teacher, he couldn't read anything at his playing level or even far below.

He can now read music, and is slowly approaching his former playing level. But I have to wonder if people who don't know how he was "taught" before, and hear what he's playing now compared to then, wouldn't think that I'm a worse teacher than his first one because his current music is nowhere near as advanced and glitzy-sounding anymore. (He's played in church for years, both before and after studying with me, so maybe it sounds to the congregation like he's gone backwards, when actually, he's moving forward -- albeit from nearly square one.)

Not that I care if anyone thinks I'm a lousy teacher based on a student's repertoire level. I'd rather give him the tools to independently work out music from a strong foundation, no matter how that makes me look.

You're right, Keystring. That sort of teaching -- foundation laying -- is not readily observable, and videos on teachers' websites or elsewhere don't tell the whole story. And who knows but that some of them may reject transfer students who might mar their image as a stellar teacher?

Re: Advertising your rates on your website [Re: AZNpiano] #2857922
06/12/19 08:24 PM
06/12/19 08:24 PM
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Australia
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Originally Posted by AZNpiano
In my area, only a few high-caliber teachers bother to put up a website. Some are obviously there to brag about student achievements and list competitions won. But, to my surprise, a lot of REALLY good piano teachers here don't have any web presence at all. It's like they deliberately remove themselves from cyberspace, if that's even possible. Their students might put Youtube videos up, and then mention the teacher's name incidentally, but the teachers themselves don't have websites.

I wonder why?


Interesting you said that. The meeting I have coming up is with exactly that kind of teacher. No web presence at all, fully booked, expensive, never leaves his studio, has taught for decades.

I only found him by the recommendation of a very good teacher who lives too far from me who said the students were impressive.

I feel rather uneasy investing thousands of dollars and unrecoverable time on a teacher I know nothing about other than a short recommendation and a name appearing on a few miscellaneous websites. Trusting others on faith is what got me into a McMusic school in the first place, and everyone thinks the person they recommend is good. But I might have to take the risk.

Re: Advertising your rates on your website [Re: Mariner] #2857931
06/12/19 08:57 PM
06/12/19 08:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,472
*sigh* Salt Lake City
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Originally Posted by Mariner

I feel rather uneasy investing thousands of dollars and unrecoverable time on a teacher I know nothing about ...



Unless this teacher is phenomenally expensive or requires a very long prepayment period, you'll know if you like him or not well before you are thousands of dollars in.


Learner
Re: Advertising your rates on your website [Re: Andamento] #2857941
06/12/19 09:54 PM
06/12/19 09:54 PM
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Posts: 4,281
Maine
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As far as I can tell, most teachers in my area don’t have websites. The best teachers I have found are through word of mouth.


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Re: Advertising your rates on your website [Re: Andamento] #2857961
06/12/19 11:26 PM
06/12/19 11:26 PM
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Australia
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My wife has told some other school mums about how good our McMusic school is and they’re now considering sending their kids there. So within her circle there’s her recommending group classes where the kids can’t sight read a single note after over a year, someone with a very budget teacher of unknown background, and someone with a well-qualified teacher with years of experience. For parents who don’t know what quality lessons should be they all sound equally good, and all through word of mouth.

Re: Advertising your rates on your website [Re: Mariner] #2858219
06/13/19 02:59 PM
06/13/19 02:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,229
Orange County, CA
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Originally Posted by Mariner
My wife has told some other school mums about how good our McMusic school is and they’re now considering sending their kids there. So within her circle there’s her recommending group classes where the kids can’t sight read a single note after over a year, someone with a very budget teacher of unknown background, and someone with a well-qualified teacher with years of experience. For parents who don’t know what quality lessons should be they all sound equally good, and all through word of mouth.

Welcome to my world! I have to combat ignorance every single day of my existence. Gossipy parents spread half-truths and rumors around like the plague.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
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