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Studiologic SL73 or SL88 Studio - triple sensor?
#2857469 06/11/19 10:25 AM
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Hey everybody,
I have got the Studiologic SL73 Studio. First of all, a really nice board in the price range, with quite short key pivot though. While it is being marketed as triple sensor action, Studiologic says: "Each of the keys provides 3 contacts for superior performance", I could not feel any difference to standard two sensor board. So then I have opened the side panel and looked inside. What I see does not necessarily seem to be triple sensor action. I would rather say, you can see only 2 pressing pins coming out of the key to the rubber strip - what would suggest, there are rather two sensors inside. But I am not a Tech, so maybe someone with proper background here could clarify? Or are any other SL73/88 users around to check their boards for comparison? Is that action really triple sensor, and if yes where is the third one? See attached pictures and thanks for your thought about this.

PS. Btw. to make the mix complete, despite almost all sources (Manufacturer, Online retailers etc.) do write in the description it is triple sensor action, I have got one qualified, definite negative answer - meaning it is two sensor only action, in an email from one of the biggest online retailers in EU.

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Re: Studiologic SL73 or SL88 Studio - triple sensor?
memtrix #2857488 06/11/19 11:03 AM
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It is a three-sensor action and the visible wires are the aftertouch tape. There's a video where a fellow Bulgarian musician has disassembled his SL88 to fix a problem that some users experience: interruption of notes which according to the video is caused by the three sensors being pressed too soon one after another (too close to the bottom) and he changes the angle of the triple contact PCB so that the first sensor is higher:


BTW, I am really considering the SL73, it's in my Muziker basket and I am currently researching it. I'm not bothered too much about the interrupted key problem since it wont' be my main board and I intend only using it for gigs and jams. But I'd be glad if you can share your opinion about your SL73 since there isn't much on the Internet.

Last edited by CyberGene; 06/11/19 11:06 AM.

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Re: Studiologic SL73 or SL88 Studio - triple sensor?
memtrix #2857506 06/11/19 12:05 PM
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Interesting video, and I just posted a comment on it. It looks to me like the second (middle) sensor of the board, while visually present, is completely non-functional. There doesn't appear to be any physical mechanism by which the middle sensor can be triggered, and moreover (in case my understanding of the mechanics is wrong), his demonstration of note repetition never indicates the behavior one should get from having a middle sensor. Even when he's hovering right over the bottom (Note On) trigger point and going up and down various amounts, he never exhibits restriking a note without first lifting it sufficiently high to silence it (i.e. passing the top sensor). If a played key is lifted above the middle sensor to only the second sensor point before restriking, the note should sound without hearing silence first, and that never happens.

Re: Studiologic SL73 or SL88 Studio - triple sensor?
anotherscott #2857510 06/11/19 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Interesting video, and I just posted a comment on it. It looks to me like the second (middle) sensor of the board, while visually present, is completely non-functional. There doesn't appear to be any physical mechanism by which the middle sensor can be triggered, and moreover (in case my understanding of the mechanics is wrong), his demonstration of note repetition never indicates the behavior one should get from having a middle sensor. Even when he's hovering right over the bottom (Note On) trigger point and going up and down various amounts, he never exhibits restriking a note without first lifting it sufficiently high to silence it (i.e. passing the top sensor). If a played key is lifted above the middle sensor to only the second sensor point before restriking, the note should sound without hearing silence first, and that never happens.

You are right, there seems to be a missing middle plastic pin to press against the middle sensor. Very weird situation. Fatar claim it's a triple sensor action though, I doubt they lie. wondering how that works.


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Re: Studiologic SL73 or SL88 Studio - triple sensor?
memtrix #2857516 06/11/19 12:47 PM
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Interesting - I have an SL88 Grand and now a P515 and I was always suspicious of the triple sensor on the SL because the P515 is far more responsive in single note repetition in comparison. Also the P515 has a shorter key travel than the SL88 action...

Re: Studiologic SL73 or SL88 Studio - triple sensor?
CyberGene #2857565 06/11/19 04:21 PM
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Hey thanks, for the video. Interesting.

Originally Posted by CyberGene
But I'd be glad if you can share your opinion about your SL73 since there isn't much on the Internet.


I do not want to go too far off topic, but in short:
My experience is... mixed smile On the one side the concept, functionality and the external build quality of the unit is very nice, and I like it very much. I am very happy finally somebody produce something like that! Just the features I need, especially considering the price. I think there is actually nothing comparable.
Yes, you could get some Kawai ES110, or Korg D1 or some basic Roland, Yamaha or Casio for little more. But in my personal opinion beside the acceptable keyboard actions, they look and feel like some elementary music school equipment. Certainly the concept, look and feel, and the onboard sounds are usually like you are still in the year 1990 wink Some even do not have USB. I personally do not like to touch and seat in front of something like that frequently wink Prefer to have no sounds, then to have bad sounds and buttons with description "demo song". But, back to the SL73, he keyboard action of the SL73/88 is a little strange I would say. Definitely playable, but not the kind of "Oh my god I can stop touching this wink ". Feels shallow (although it actually is not, if you measure it). I like the weight. You can get almost all velocity values out of it, even though the high level values around 100-127 is not very responsible. It sends "note off" velocity as well. After just few hours of playing getting a little noisy, some keys clicky. The included pedal is... hmm, just get another one smile And here you must spend like about 40 euros for a Kawai or Roland pedal (for continuous "half" pedaling). Would prefer they remove the pedal from the package and drop the price -15 euros. So not perfect, but there are not many alternatives, I could think of.

Pros:
+ perfect concept and interface
+ nice 3 joysticks
+ nice and solid external build
+ good display
+ connectivity
+ USB powered
+ working utility software for the computer

Cons
- Keyboard action
- included pedal

Sorry for being off topic with that post, could not resist smile

Re: Studiologic SL73 or SL88 Studio - triple sensor?
memtrix #2857575 06/11/19 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by memtrix

Cons
- Keyboard action

They make the exact same keyboard with a better action, except they only make it in an 88 version. It's the SL88 Grand. It's a matter of whether you can deal with the added, size, weight, and cost.

Re: Studiologic SL73 or SL88 Studio - triple sensor?
anotherscott #2857577 06/11/19 05:08 PM
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true, true smile Thanks and a good point. I tried the SL88 Grand once in the local store, and being honest the touch and feel of the keys was much better, but the repetition felt actually even kind of more strange then on the Studio version. I was completely surprised actually. I tried SL88 Studio and Grand side by side connected both to Roland Integra. The fast repetition on the Grand caused some strange unexpected notes with approximately maximal velocity. Can not say if the unit in the store was defective though, you can not do a lot of troubleshooting in that kind of environment wink But definitely good point to consider. Thanks.

Re: Studiologic SL73 or SL88 Studio - triple sensor?
memtrix #2857583 06/11/19 05:53 PM
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Two users at the PianoTeq forum liked the triple sensors on the SL88

https://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=5536

Re: Studiologic SL73 or SL88 Studio - triple sensor?
newer player #2857617 06/11/19 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by newer player
Two users at the PianoTeq forum liked the triple sensors on the SL88

though talking about the Grand, not the Studio. Regardless, maybe I missed something, but I only saw one message saying they were impressed by it (the first one), and even then, I have to say it's not clear that what they described was definitely the result of the third sensor.

Re: Studiologic SL73 or SL88 Studio - triple sensor?
anotherscott #2857629 06/11/19 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
It looks to me like the second (middle) sensor of the board, while visually present, is completely non-functional. There doesn't appear to be any physical mechanism by which the middle sensor can be triggered...


Yes, I think you might be right.

I also don't have any knowledge on how Fatar's 3-sensor mechanisms function, however the two notches remind me of Kawai's 2-sensor keyboard action.

Here is a graphic from a sales presentation comparing Kawai's 2-sensor RHC (Responsive Hammer Compact) action against the 3-sensor RHCII.

[Linked Image]

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James
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Re: Studiologic SL73 or SL88 Studio - triple sensor?
memtrix #2857720 06/12/19 09:41 AM
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Not sure if this is the right thread but I'm currently deciding between SL73 and SL88 Studio. The former is only €26 cheaper. They seem to be exactly the same besides the size. However it seems there's an original softcase only for the 88-version and I will certainly need a case and none of the generic Thomann ones seems to remotely approach the SL73 size... That's a bit of a deciding factor for me but let me know your opinion too. As I said, I intend to play rather modern music and not so much a pianistic repertoire requiring all the 88 keys laugh But I'll probably be splitting the keyboard into zones for controlling synths on the iPad too so every extra key counts. And I have a SUV so I'm not so much worried about carrying it but anyway. When will you choose a 73-key over a 88-key keyboard?


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Re: Studiologic SL73 or SL88 Studio - triple sensor?
CyberGene #2857725 06/12/19 09:49 AM
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If your car can accommodate the 88 version for the transport, go for it definitely, in my opinion. Me, being a trained pianist, but since +10 years playing only modern stuff, found myself in a situation where my finger try to play the deeper notes regardless repertoire wink just for the timbre experience especially while improvising. Additionally more space for zones etc. So in short: got the space? = get 88 version smile

Re: Studiologic SL73 or SL88 Studio - triple sensor?
CyberGene #2857739 06/12/19 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
When will you choose a 73-key over a 88-key keyboard?

If you have little space in your car, or little space on the stage, or if you don't want to carry around the extra 5 lbs.

Re: Studiologic SL73 or SL88 Studio - triple sensor?
anotherscott #2857779 06/12/19 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by CyberGene
When will you choose a 73-key over a 88-key keyboard?

If you have little space in your car, or little space on the stage, or if you don't want to carry around the extra 5 lbs.


That and with octave transpose there comes a time when you realize you can't remember playing A0 & C8 in the same song. After owning a couple of 76 & 73 key pianos I realized that I never missed the 88 at all. So if a board I want has a hammer action in 76 or 73 keys, I will buy that over a full 88 keys every time. Maybe if I were a playing classical music my attitude would be different, but I don't. And if I did play classical I don't think I would be looking at digital pianos anyways.

Last edited by Kbeaumont; 06/12/19 12:13 PM.

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Re: Studiologic SL73 or SL88 Studio - triple sensor?
Kbeaumont #2859854 06/18/19 05:11 AM
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I just got the SL88 Grand and unfortunately also here I see completely no benefit of the 3rd sensor.
So even though the action feels pretty nice - it should be named "UPRIGHT" not "grand". Being classical trained pianist, I can tell, It feels like an authentic, really nice or even premium but an UPRIGHT not a grand piano action. Repetition or trills are not reliable, just like playing upright piano.
Also the feel of the "bottoming" is not the soft, heavy, grand alike stroke-end, but short "thumby" upright like one.. Additionally, telling the truth I can't see the 3rd sensor doing anything in the MIDI application, so maybe this is just the marketing BS?
Sad thing actually.

Re: Studiologic SL73 or SL88 Studio - triple sensor?
memtrix #2859861 06/18/19 05:33 AM
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Seems like indeed the triple sensor is a Fatar BS.


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Re: Studiologic SL73 or SL88 Studio - triple sensor?
memtrix #2859867 06/18/19 05:56 AM
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What's bizarre about this is that other manufacturers use Fatar actions with triple sensors that seem to work. Or do they...???

Re: Studiologic SL73 or SL88 Studio - triple sensor?
memtrix #2859881 06/18/19 06:51 AM
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That's what I am trying to find out. As far the only pianos where I could really feel reliable re-triggering notes without the gaps was the MP11SE. And the other Piano where I could hear the third sensor doing actually something - although not so nice as the MP11SE - was the MP7SE. But neither of both I could check on the MIDI output in the local store. I started another thread and hope somebody playing other boards will test and report the results, so we can see if this is anyhow useful.
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...sor-soft-synths-benefit.html#Post2859850

Re: Studiologic SL73 or SL88 Studio - triple sensor?
memtrix #2859914 06/18/19 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
What's bizarre about this is that other manufacturers use Fatar actions with triple sensors that seem to work. Or do they...???

At least some do not. As I just posted in another thread, I posted about this at http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2953971 and there were conflicting responses.

Originally Posted by memtrix
That's what I am trying to find out. As far the only pianos where I could really feel reliable re-triggering notes without the gaps was the MP11SE. And the other Piano where I could hear the third sensor doing actually something - although not so nice as the MP11SE - was the MP7SE. But neither of both I could check on the MIDI output in the local store.

Ah, I didn't realize the MP11SE you tried was in a store, explaining why it was not easy to examine its MIDI (i.e. without your computer with you). My Local-Off-MIDI-loop suggestion might help a bit there, but also, there are MIDI monitor apps you can get for smartphones, which would be easier to deal with on a store trip than, say, bringing along a laptop.

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