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Re: Injured my hand [Re: hyena] #2857172 06/10/19 05:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 553
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Sidokar Online Content
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Originally Posted by hyena
I've a Roland FP-50. Relative to most digital piano's the keys are quite heavy.

I will do that exercise! I just tried it out, I see I already have difficulty with keeping my other fingers motionless. So that's a good practice!
.


A very simple and efficient exercice is same as above but with the holding keys down approach. It is a well known one that helps to increase resistance of joints while also developing finger independence (physical). Put your 5 fingers on white keys and press all 5 and keep them down. Then choose randomly 1 finger to raise up and down slowly. Do this with all 5 fingers in various order. Then take 2 random fingers, raise them up and still keep the 3 others down and do a trill. Press down and take another different 2. Continue until you have done all combinations. The most difficult ones are with 3-4, 3-5 and 4-5. There are many variants going gradually toward more and extended positions. You can start hands separate and later do HT. Do not attempt while your pinky is sore. You can do this as a warmup every day but no longer than 5 minutes. It is a difficult exercice at the beginning and a demanding one so it should not be overused. Always do this with as relaxed hands as possible. After a few weeks you should see an increased freedom of all fingers.

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Re: Injured my hand [Re: hyena] #2857182 06/10/19 07:00 AM
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hyena Offline OP
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Oh yes I know that exercise. My teacher gave me it a few times.

I guess this time I should actually stick to doing this technique. I've never done it consistently. Because I wasn't sure of its benefits. I guess now I am wink

Last edited by hyena; 06/10/19 07:02 AM.
Re: Injured my hand [Re: hyena] #2857193 06/10/19 08:38 AM
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Michael P Walsh Offline
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I've done that exercise too. If I play a scale straight after doing that exercise my fingers seem to fly. As sidokar as already stated, be careful with it.

Re: Injured my hand [Re: hyena] #2857204 06/10/19 09:29 AM
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jdw Offline
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Hmm, well, don't know where your impressions of Taubman teachers come from--they sure do play Liszt, as well as Chopin and everyone else! They are serious about technique, for sure--for musical reasons, and also because they know a whole lot about injuries.

I know this because I was sidelined by RSI for a couple of years. I'm only able to play at all because of my terrific Taubman teacher--but I also play vastly better than before.

Of course, people have to make their own choices about where to look for help. Just sharing my experience because impressions from a distance are often misleading.


1989 Baldwin R
Re: Injured my hand [Re: hyena] #2860129 06/18/19 04:17 PM
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Jeff Clef Offline
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Hello, Hyena-

So, you first posted on June 9; here we are at June 18: so, how does the finger feel now? Still have the sharp pain, or is it just as bad, or half as bad? Gone? Still practicing hard, or have you eased off, or almost completely stopped for just the present? What did your teacher have to say about the pain?

Posts like yours always worry me. The sharp pain, which you keep testing; asking for medical advice from a website; entertaining advice on technic from a website in addition to your teacher's.

And your teacher. What qualifications does your teacher have to give you advice on a hand injury?

Just asking. I'm not opposed to all those things I just said. Entertaining different ideas is a great learning tool, as long as you check in with your teacher before you seriously switch to something different than you were taught. Sometimes their end game is not always in sight.

I do have one suggestion which I don't think anyone will object to greatly. When the hand is spread open, it is more vulnerable to injury. If you add a forceful motion to this situation, especially repeated, like octave scales at double forte, it's no wonder that a problem develops. So my technical suggestion for you is, whatever you're doing that makes your hand hurt, don't do it anymore until it heals. And in those situations where you have a known exposure to a hazardous movement, do it more slowly, more gently. Take advice from who understands the way the hand and arm move. (I'm not talking about myself; there are teachers. Not all have studied this.)

The other one is, ice. 3 - 4 times a day for about 15 minutes, with a t-shirt (or similar) wrapped around the ice; don't put the pack right on your skin. The goal is to cool down inflammation which makes the very delicate structures of the hand swell. Keep playing before this heals if you want more and worse trouble.

10 days later, still hurts? Time to see an orthopedic doctor. They sometimes go under the descriptive title of Sports Medicine specialist. The goal is to get you past something which has potential to shadow you for what could be a long time. Bottom line is, they know things we don't. (You might be surprised how many doctors are also musicians.) Example: I had a fall on my bike; wrist hurt some afterward, not bad at first, but it didn't go away, got worse and worse. Three medical doctors and a year later, I got to the orthopedic department, who diagnosed the injury as being an unhappy tendon down by my elbow--- not the hand at all. Icing the hand had done no good! I didn't believe the doc, but he grabbed and squeezed my arm down where he said, and asked me if the hand still hurt. Well, no; not anymore. Same thing happened when I tried it myself.

We treated the injury where it really was, and disregarded the referred pain to the wrist. I got better.

But, here's hoping you are better, by now!


Clef

Re: Injured my hand [Re: Jeff Clef] #2870289 07/18/19 09:50 AM
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hyena Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Jeff Clef
Hello, Hyena-

So, you first posted on June 9; here we are at June 18: so, how does the finger feel now? Still have the sharp pain, or is it just as bad, or half as bad? Gone? Still practicing hard, or have you eased off, or almost completely stopped for just the present? What did your teacher have to say about the pain?

Posts like yours always worry me. The sharp pain, which you keep testing; asking for medical advice from a website; entertaining advice on technic from a website in addition to your teacher's.

And your teacher. What qualifications does your teacher have to give you advice on a hand injury?

Just asking. I'm not opposed to all those things I just said. Entertaining different ideas is a great learning tool, as long as you check in with your teacher before you seriously switch to something different than you were taught. Sometimes their end game is not always in sight.

I do have one suggestion which I don't think anyone will object to greatly. When the hand is spread open, it is more vulnerable to injury. If you add a forceful motion to this situation, especially repeated, like octave scales at double forte, it's no wonder that a problem develops. So my technical suggestion for you is, whatever you're doing that makes your hand hurt, don't do it anymore until it heals. And in those situations where you have a known exposure to a hazardous movement, do it more slowly, more gently. Take advice from who understands the way the hand and arm move. (I'm not talking about myself; there are teachers. Not all have studied this.)

The other one is, ice. 3 - 4 times a day for about 15 minutes, with a t-shirt (or similar) wrapped around the ice; don't put the pack right on your skin. The goal is to cool down inflammation which makes the very delicate structures of the hand swell. Keep playing before this heals if you want more and worse trouble.

10 days later, still hurts? Time to see an orthopedic doctor. They sometimes go under the descriptive title of Sports Medicine specialist. The goal is to get you past something which has potential to shadow you for what could be a long time. Bottom line is, they know things we don't. (You might be surprised how many doctors are also musicians.) Example: I had a fall on my bike; wrist hurt some afterward, not bad at first, but it didn't go away, got worse and worse. Three medical doctors and a year later, I got to the orthopedic department, who diagnosed the injury as being an unhappy tendon down by my elbow--- not the hand at all. Icing the hand had done no good! I didn't believe the doc, but he grabbed and squeezed my arm down where he said, and asked me if the hand still hurt. Well, no; not anymore. Same thing happened when I tried it myself.

We treated the injury where it really was, and disregarded the referred pain to the wrist. I got better.

But, here's hoping you are better, by now!


Hey Jeff Clef, thanks for taking the time to write such a wide reply!

I'm not sure what qualifications she have to give me advice specifically on hand injury. I believe she almost finished her Doctor of Musical Arts at university.

My teacher said I should take rest and keep her updated in the days to come.

Luckily the injury seem to have vanished in about 3/4 days!

Last edited by hyena; 07/18/19 09:52 AM.
Re: Injured my hand [Re: hyena] #2870355 07/18/19 01:40 PM
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Learux Offline
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Octaves between white keys are played with 1 and 5 finger.

Black key Octaves 1 and 4th.

At least that is what I was taught


When you play, never mind who listens to you. R.Schumann.

Casio GP-400
Schimmel SP-182T
Re: Injured my hand [Re: Learux] #2870359 07/18/19 02:07 PM
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dmd Offline
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Originally Posted by Learux
Octaves between white keys are played with 1 and 5 finger.

Black key Octaves 1 and 4th.

At least that is what I was taught




Any particular reason associated with that ?


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used)
Re: Injured my hand [Re: hyena] #2870365 07/18/19 02:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
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johnstaf Online Crying
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If you're playing really fast octaves, 1 and 5 on the black keys can make the impossible possible. It also depends on the individual. I have the same span from my thumb to 3, 4, or 5.

4 on a black key allows legato with a white note. If you're playing octaves faster than you can freely move from 4 to 5 without the thumb, then all 5s work well. Which reminds me, I have to make a list of all my pieces with octaves, as I want to change a lot of the fingerings.

Last edited by johnstaf; 07/18/19 02:44 PM.
Re: Injured my hand [Re: Learux] #2870765 07/19/19 08:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
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backto_study_piano Offline
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Yes, I was taught the same, and still remember the Octave Scales when studying. One of the first things my TAUBMAN teacher said - 1/5 for all octaves, forget the "4" you learned. Stretching and twisting were 2 key things she tried to eliminate.

The other thing which we did a little of - and since I've stopped lessons, I'm doing it more and more - for passages with a chord which includes the doubling of the top note (RH) or doubling the bottom note (LH) - in most cases, it can be dropped with little if any change in the sound, allowing a much more relaxed hand position without the stretching.

Also, she emphasised using the pedal for holding stretches so the hand, or at least some fingers can be released.

I'm doing more and more of both of those as my arthritic pain gets worse - hoping I can still play for many years to come.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: Injured my hand [Re: hyena] #2871062 07/20/19 08:48 PM
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Zaphod Offline
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Depends on the hand size.

I find 1-4 on the black notes can add a certain degree of fluidity and accuracy, in certain situations.

I use 1-3 on occasion. Rarely. though. Seems ok. My hand hasn't fallen off yet.

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