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Re: CA78/98 vs CLP645/685 [Re: safersax] #2856019 06/06/19 09:34 AM
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I wouldn't buy a CA98 over a CA78 just for the sound system.
The 98 is somewhat better, but still not satisfactory.
I'd insist on a pair of monitors to augment or replace the internal speakers.
In that case the cheaper 78 makes more sense to me.

I'll soon take another look and listen to the Novus. And also find an N1X to try.
With the objective: Are these good enough to NOT need a separate sound system.
I have yet to find a piano that can meet that need.
I'm hoping that an $8000+ purchase can.

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Re: CA78/98 vs CLP645/685 [Re: MacMacMac] #2856024 06/06/19 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I wouldn't buy a CA98 over a CA78 just for the sound system.
The 98 is somewhat better, but still not satisfactory.
I'd insist on a pair of monitors to augment or replace the internal speakers.
In that case the cheaper 78 makes more sense to me.

I'll soon take another look and listen to the Novus. And also find an N1X to try.
With the objective: Are these good enough to NOT need a separate sound system.
I have yet to find a piano that can meet that need.
I'm hoping that an $8000+ purchase can.

First- Novus is over twice as expensive.
Second- I've played it and I still say CA98 has great sound not worse than Novus. You just have to possition it well and turn on wall eq option(if it's indeed by the wall). I'm almost sure Novus I've tired was on default settings and it sounded more "boxy" than CA98, bass was overwhelming, in a bad way.
For me Roland LX-708 had perfectly balanced bass with the rest of the sound range BUT it lacked vibrations that both Novus and CA98 give you through your legs and fingers, and CA78 is average in that terms, monitors won't help with that.

Re: CA78/98 vs CLP645/685 [Re: safersax] #2856062 06/06/19 11:01 AM
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Yes, I'm willing to pay twice as much. (I'm not the OP. I am not comparing CA-series vs. CLP-series. So I've gone off topic.)

If what you say about the sound of the Novus being boxy is true ... then maybe I'll need to focus on the N1X.
And if even that doesn't satisfy ... well I wouldn't be the first to hang a pair of monitors on an AG.

It would be a shame, though, to spend so much on a piano ... and still not get sound as good as a $500 pair of monitors. frown

(Gimme a VPC with a grand action! That's all I'd need!)

Re: CA78/98 vs CLP645/685 [Re: MacMacMac] #2856115 06/06/19 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
If what you say about the sound of the Novus being boxy is true ... then maybe I'll need to focus on the N1X.


This was the main reason why i sold it. wink

Last edited by Tyr; 06/06/19 01:46 PM.

Kawai Novus NV5
Re: CA78/98 vs CLP645/685 [Re: safersax] #2856405 06/07/19 01:10 PM
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The CLP 685 can't have a bad action at that price. Yamaha designers know a trick or two, as do those of Kawai. Top pianists will have had input into all these, and whilst some here may dislike the action, as I do, it might still be a great choice. Time will enable one to adapt to the delights of a quality product and subsequently examine and enjoy it's benefits.
If you're an accomplished pianist, it should be more obvious.
I'd go for the option that offered best service in the event of a malfunction. If that option also offered the best price, then . . . makes sense.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: CA78/98 vs CLP645/685 [Re: safersax] #2856411 06/07/19 01:30 PM
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I tried the 685 and I liked it, especially compared to my worn eleven-year-old Clav.
The 685 cannot compare to the Novus I tried a few months back ... but I could live with it.

I think it's still the heavy vs. light debate. Yamahas are heavy.
Deal ... or no deal?

Re: CA78/98 vs CLP645/685 [Re: safersax] #2856417 06/07/19 01:44 PM
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Hello,
I own a Kawai CS11 (same action as the CS78 and the CS98) and a Kawai Gx 2 acoustic grand. The Kawai GF II actions feels very similar to the Millenium III action in my acoustic (downwight about 53 grams on both). I tried the CLP 685 in store and the action is MUCH havier. You can see this also in this comparison video https://youtu.be/dEKFGkR6KAk

Daniel

Last edited by danielp11; 06/07/19 01:45 PM.

KAWAI CS11 (sold KAWAI CA 97), KAWAI GX2 acoustic grand piano (sold SCHIMMEL acoustic upright)
Re: CA78/98 vs CLP645/685 [Re: MacMacMac] #2856432 06/07/19 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I think it's still the heavy vs. light debate. Yamahas are heavy.


Do you think that one can make that generalisation? Some Yamahas, such as the 675 and 685 are heavy. Others, such as the 645 (my favourite keyboard) are much lighter.


Chris

Yamaha P-515, Yamaha Reface CP.
Re: CA78/98 vs CLP645/685 [Re: Cheshire Chris] #2856439 06/07/19 02:37 PM
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Weigh it and see?
Originally Posted by Cheshire Chris
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I think it's still the heavy vs. light debate. Yamahas are heavy.
Do you think that one can make that generalisation? Some Yamahas, such as the 675 and 685 are heavy. Others, such as the 645 (my favourite keyboard) are much lighter.

Re: CA78/98 vs CLP645/685 [Re: safersax] #2856445 06/07/19 02:52 PM
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Only you MacMacMac would come up with that smile


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: CA78/98 vs CLP645/685 [Re: safersax] #2856475 06/07/19 05:02 PM
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Having owned a CLP-685 for over a year, I think it's a mistake to dismiss it because it is perceived as "heavy." Though I traded it in for an N1X, it is the keyboard that played the closest to a grand for me compared to any other non-hybrid. It was extremely responsive (I think much due to the counterweights.) It's definitely not as light as other digitals, but I find most of them to play more like uprights and it's jarring to move from them to an acoustic grand. I had this problem with the Kawai ES-110 for example.

OTOH I know you're trying to pick a piano sight unseen which is not optimal so I don't want to muddy the waters too much. Good luck with your choice!


Now learning: Chopin C# minor Nocturne (posth) and C minor Prelude (big chords), Mozart Sonata in C K. 545
Instruments: Yamaha N1X, Kawai ES110, Roland GO:PIANO
Re: CA78/98 vs CLP645/685 [Re: safersax] #2856482 06/07/19 05:14 PM
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I'm with you. I don't dismiss the 685 for being heavy. I embrace it for such.
I don't really like a light action.

So ... is the N1X also heavy?

Re: CA78/98 vs CLP645/685 [Re: safersax] #2856561 06/08/19 02:11 AM
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Funny enough someone just asked me in a pm if I could estimate the touch weight with pennies. Given that the penultimate penny moves the key very slightly, I would estimate that the touch weight of the N1X is 55 grams.



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Now learning: Chopin C# minor Nocturne (posth) and C minor Prelude (big chords), Mozart Sonata in C K. 545
Instruments: Yamaha N1X, Kawai ES110, Roland GO:PIANO
Re: CA78/98 vs CLP645/685 [Re: safersax] #2856585 06/08/19 04:55 AM
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Thanks for posting the video Chrispy!


Nord Grand, Kawai MP11 (v1), iMac 2017, Yamaha HS8's, Sennheiser 650, Focusrite 2i4, Pianoteq 6.4.0, Steinway Model A, Mason and Hamlin Model AA, Piano Marvel: 3C
Re: CA78/98 vs CLP645/685 [Re: safersax] #2856817 06/09/19 12:31 AM
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I just had my CA95 delivered (got it used for 2900), but I spent a bunch of time in the stores playing different ones.

CA48 - I really wanted to like this because the price is so good, but the action just didn't cut it. Speakers are kind of bad, but could be fixed by supplementing a sub and such.
CLP645 - Not good enough. Overall poor performer for the money.
CA78 - Really poor quality key surface is kind of distracting, but it's something you'd get used to. Speakers are ....eh.
CLP685 - Great action IMO, speakers do the job.
CA98 - I'm not sure if I've actually seen one of these before, I played either a 97 or a 98. I find the "soundboard" to be amazing for producing bass, treble could be a little better.
N1 and N2 - Action obviously feels more realistic, though Yamaha really should have decreased the weight. My hands started hurting badly from playing this for only a few minutes while the very heavy CLP685 didn't do that. Comparing side by side, I realized the repetition performance was really not enough of an improvement to justify the price.
NV10 - Haven't seen one before, but I would hope that it's amazing given how much money they want.

The Grand Feel and GFII actions are pretty close to the CLP685 while costing much less money, which is why I went with a used CA95. I have not seen a Roland LX706 or LX708, which I really want to try, but new they're quite a bit of money, so I'm happy with what I got.

Last edited by trigalg693; 06/09/19 12:38 AM.
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