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Re: Choosing a 7ft grand in London [Re: almo82] #2856449
06/07/19 04:05 PM
06/07/19 04:05 PM
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awesome10 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by almo82
If you are thinking about buying from Peregrine’s- i would recommend you ask to see the pianos in the practice rooms.

They have A forester (don’t remember which model) and a Schimmel Konzert in the other. Both rooms are comparable to a typical living room in size.

The difference is that the practice rooms will give you a better feel for what the piano will sound like when at your house than the show room.

As Skalj pointed out , I tried the AF 215 and the K 189 in the practice rooms. .

The hall where it will be used has a height of more than 5 metres .....

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Re: Choosing a 7ft grand in London [Re: OE1FEU] #2856450
06/07/19 04:15 PM
06/07/19 04:15 PM
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awesome10 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by OE1FEU
Originally Posted by awesome10
I noticed something ...none of you recommend me to go for the A228 which is already there with my dealer . In most other cases I will have to place an order ( unable to go to the factories due to time constraints) .


Unless one has consciously played a recent Bechstein and taken a look under the hood, very few people are aware of Bechstein's complete redesign of their concert and academy series with a capo bar and a duplex scale. There is kind of an assumption that the traditional Bechstein sound with its clarity still lacks richness in colours and harmonics in the treble section.

If I had to replace my 1887 Steinway B with a modern instrument, it would either be an A228 or C234. Both pianos have an action that simply blew me away and I found something similarly responsive and precise only in a Yamaha CFX. The Bechsteins, together with the Fazioli 228 are a lot closer to a real, full-size concert grand than a Steinway C or a Yamaha C7 in my opinion.


It looks and plays really well , but I got really vague responses regarding the Bechstein Academy. The action is apparently not a proper Renner , the rim is thinner than the Concert series . There must be some difference when the A228 is around 50% of the C234's price. The Konzert series apparently also has a very wide tail it seems , which I was told has better projection capabilities.

Another thing .... what is this 'Triplex' scaling on the Schimmel's? Should their be both front and rear aliquots for the strings?

Re: Choosing a 7ft grand in London [Re: awesome10] #2856452
06/07/19 04:19 PM
06/07/19 04:19 PM
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awesome10 Offline OP
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Another thing , after reclaiming the VAT , the piano(Schimmel K230T) will cost less than 45,000 pounds (according to the final quotation , and also including basement delivery and a concert stool)

Re: Choosing a 7ft grand in London [Re: awesome10] #2856458
06/07/19 04:45 PM
06/07/19 04:45 PM
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Vienna, Austria
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OE1FEU Offline
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Originally Posted by awesome10

It looks and plays really well , but I got really vague responses regarding the Bechstein Academy. The action is apparently not a proper Renner , the rim is thinner than the Concert series . There must be some difference when the A228 is around 50% of the C234's price. The Konzert series apparently also has a very wide tail it seems , which I was told has better projection capabilities.


Actions of both the concert and academy series are not "proper Renners" by definition. At the German factory site the actions provided by this external supplier will be disassembled and rebuilt according to Bechstein parameters and tolerances. In that regard concert and academy are pretty much identical. Same with Steinway Renner actions, BTW.

Academy models are built to meet every conceivable standard of being pounded on all day in an academy, whereas the concert series is what you are looking for in an instrument that fills a hall and can be recorded for posterity.

Re: Choosing a 7ft grand in London [Re: awesome10] #2856461
06/07/19 04:53 PM
06/07/19 04:53 PM
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For those of you who are not that familiar with the Bechstein hammer philosophy, you might want to read this article published as a PDF on the Bechstein home page:
OPTIMIZING THE SOUND

Re: Choosing a 7ft grand in London [Re: Skjalg] #2856464
06/07/19 05:00 PM
06/07/19 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Skjalg
For those of you who are not that familiar with the Bechstein hammer philosophy, you might want to read this article published as a PDF on the Bechstein home page:
OPTIMIZING THE SOUND

Thanks.

Does the Schimmel use Abels?

Re: Choosing a 7ft grand in London [Re: awesome10] #2856465
06/07/19 05:11 PM
06/07/19 05:11 PM
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Georgia, USA
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Hi Awesome10,

It doesn't matter if the piano uses Abel hammers or has a "dodecahedrex" duplex scale. All that matters is if you like the tonal quality and sustain through the various dynamics. Everything else is marketing.


Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: Choosing a 7ft grand in London [Re: awesome10] #2856466
06/07/19 05:11 PM
06/07/19 05:11 PM
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Skjalg Offline
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Schimmel uses Renner hammers.
The August Förster 215 can be ordered with Renner or Abel hammers. Default is Renner I believe.

Re: Choosing a 7ft grand in London [Re: terminaldegree] #2856467
06/07/19 05:21 PM
06/07/19 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
Hi Awesome10,

It doesn't matter if the piano uses Abel hammers or has a "dodecahedrex" duplex scale. All that matters is if you like the tonal quality and sustain through the various dynamics. Everything else is marketing.



Thanks for the reassurance.

Re: Choosing a 7ft grand in London [Re: Skjalg] #2856571
06/08/19 04:09 AM
06/08/19 04:09 AM
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Skjalg Offline
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Originally Posted by Skjalg
Schimmel uses Renner hammers.
The August Förster 215 can be ordered with Renner or Abel hammers. Default is Renner I believe.

My mistake regarding the AF215. It comes with Abel hammers. The 190 comes with Renner.

Apparently the August Förster has a mineral plastic (Ivolan) on their top model upright, and their concert model; the 134 K and their 275 respectively. It can be ordered at a premium on other models. I have tried the same key top on Steingraeber & Söhne and Phoenix, and found it extremely pleasing. The Schimmel Konzert series has a similar mineral key top that I also enjoyed, as well as the Yamaha CF’s.

If you are genuinely interested in grand pianos in general, I would recommend a trip down to Hurstwood Farm Piano Studios near Sevenoaks in Kent. I am not aware of their current prices, but it should be treat either way.

Re: Choosing a 7ft grand in London [Re: OE1FEU] #2856572
06/08/19 04:19 AM
06/08/19 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by OE1FEU
Originally Posted by joe80

I don't know much about the C. Bechstein Academy pianos. I know they're built half in the Czech republic or all in the Czech republic, and that doesn't put me off at all. They're very highly regarded, as are the W.Hoffman pianos. I imagine that you're looking at similar quality with a different sound when it comes to Hoffman vs Bechstein Academy.


Please don't spread misinformation.

If it says Bechstein on the fallboard of a modern instrument it was designed and manufactured in Germany. If it has W. Hoffmann on the fallboard, it was built in the Czech Republic, designed in Germany.


oops sorry i made a mistake.

talking of czech pianos there's also Petrof.

Re: Choosing a 7ft grand in London [Re: joe80] #2856573
06/08/19 04:33 AM
06/08/19 04:33 AM
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Queensland, Australia
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Originally Posted by joe80
Originally Posted by OE1FEU
[quote=joe80]
I don't know much about the C. Bechstein Academy pianos. I know they're built half in the Czech republic or all in the Czech republic, and that doesn't put me off at all. They're very highly regarded, as are the W.Hoffman pianos. I imagine that you're looking at similar quality with a different sound when it comes to Hoffman vs Bechstein Academy.
...

talking of czech pianos there's also Petrof.

I'd pass on Petrof - they're not in the same class as others mentioned - better than they used to be, but still not there.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: Choosing a 7ft grand in London [Re: backto_study_piano] #2856578
06/08/19 05:15 AM
06/08/19 05:15 AM
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awesome10 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by backto_study_piano
Originally Posted by joe80
Originally Posted by OE1FEU
[quote=joe80]
I don't know much about the C. Bechstein Academy pianos. I know they're built half in the Czech republic or all in the Czech republic, and that doesn't put me off at all. They're very highly regarded, as are the W.Hoffman pianos. I imagine that you're looking at similar quality with a different sound when it comes to Hoffman vs Bechstein Academy.
...

talking of czech pianos there's also Petrof.

I'd pass on Petrof - they're not in the same class as others mentioned - better than they used to be, but still not there.

I think their Ant. Petrof models are nice , though way out of my budget.

Re: Choosing a 7ft grand in London [Re: awesome10] #2856927
06/09/19 11:23 AM
06/09/19 11:23 AM
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Just curious .... if we get the VAT rebate on the pianos (which works out to around 16.7% of the selling price) does it reduce the value of the piano lost by depreciation to some extent?

Re: Choosing a 7ft grand in London [Re: awesome10] #2856946
06/09/19 11:45 AM
06/09/19 11:45 AM
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As far as I know, VAT in England is 20%.
So if you pay 120£ for a commodity, it would be 120/1.20 =100£ without VAT.

If the original sales price was 150£, but discounted with 30£ to 120£, the price you would pay without VAT would be (150-30)/1.20 = 100£.

By the way, I saw that Hurstwood Farm had a summer sale with 25% off on some models...

Re: Choosing a 7ft grand in London [Re: Skjalg] #2856952
06/09/19 12:05 PM
06/09/19 12:05 PM
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awesome10 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Skjalg
As far as I know, VAT in England is 20%.
So if you pay 120£ for a commodity, it would be 120/1.20 =100£ without VAT.

If the original sales price was 150£, but discounted with 30£ to 120£, the price you would pay without VAT would be (150-30)/1.20 = 100£.

By the way, I saw that Hurstwood Farm had a summer sale with 25% off on some models...

5/6 = 83.333 ..... making it a reduction of 16.67%

Re: Choosing a 7ft grand in London [Re: Skjalg] #2856955
06/09/19 12:08 PM
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Could you please send me a link? The only pianos in stock seem to be 7 feet+ Steingraber's that are way out of my budget.

Re: Choosing a 7ft grand in London [Re: awesome10] #2856959
06/09/19 12:14 PM
06/09/19 12:14 PM
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It was announced on their Facebook page yesterday:
https://www.facebook.com/732819870158079/posts/2150542825052436?s=100012999733024&sfns=mo

If you mail them I am sure they will provide you with a list. You could also state your budget and ask if they have anything including floor models that would fit the bill.

Re: Choosing a 7ft grand in London [Re: Skjalg] #2856990
06/09/19 01:39 PM
06/09/19 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Skjalg
It was announced on their Facebook page yesterday:
https://www.facebook.com/732819870158079/posts/2150542825052436?s=100012999733024&sfns=mo

If you mail them I am sure they will provide you with a list. You could also state your budget and ask if they have anything including floor models that would fit the bill.

Thanks Skjalg.

Does anyone over here have an idea of how Phoenix's Carbon fibre soundboard feels like? I might pay them a visit next week ....

Last edited by awesome10; 06/09/19 01:39 PM.
Re: Choosing a 7ft grand in London [Re: awesome10] #2856994
06/09/19 01:56 PM
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I wrote a few lines about it on my way home from a family holiday in London a while back.
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...piano-display-in-london.html#Post2716948

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