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Anyone practice with the DP switched off? #2855812
06/05/19 03:12 PM
06/05/19 03:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 614
UK
thickfingers Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
thickfingers  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 614
UK
Just been trying to get a hang of using arm weight for consistency of key strike...Seems good practice to do it without sound.
Learning a new (little, again (Le Petit Rien, Couperin)) piece--getting a good feel for R/L synchrony, timing, etcetera just by listening to the key thumps. Today, anyway. Should sound quite nice when I can get it nice and even before I turn the DP back on...

Er, for non-acoustic users only, sorry for those stuck with genuine Steinways, et:c grin

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Re: Anyone practice with the DP switched off? [Re: thickfingers] #2855839
06/05/19 04:49 PM
06/05/19 04:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 614
UK
thickfingers Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
thickfingers  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 614
UK
Apparently not. Well, never mind then. See ya later.

Re: Anyone practice with the DP switched off? [Re: thickfingers] #2855843
06/05/19 05:09 PM
06/05/19 05:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 82
L
Living_tribunal Offline
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Living_tribunal  Offline
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L

Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 82
What is DP?

Re: Anyone practice with the DP switched off? [Re: thickfingers] #2855846
06/05/19 05:19 PM
06/05/19 05:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 62
Chicago
P
Pau Gasol Offline
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Posts: 62
Chicago
I try it occasionally. More frequently though, I'll play a few songs in other "voices", such as Church Organ or Steel Guitar. I do it mostly as a memorization aid; playing a familiar piece on an unfamiliar instrument lets me hear it in a fresh new perspective, one which I don't already have ties to. As they say, your mileage may vary. And yes, this won't work on an acoustic.

Re: Anyone practice with the DP switched off? [Re: thickfingers] #2855860
06/05/19 06:14 PM
06/05/19 06:14 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 25,813
New York City
pianoloverus Offline
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At first I thought this idea made no sense but then I remembered that a Russian pianist/teacher I know said as a young girl she practiced the motion of playing with arm weight on the closed lid of a piano "countless times". I think the idea is that that allows one to practice the motion and how it should feel without worrying about playing specific notes.

Re: Anyone practice with the DP switched off? [Re: thickfingers] #2855866
06/05/19 06:28 PM
06/05/19 06:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,038
Boynton Beach, FL
Morodiene Offline
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I did this today actually. I was practicing Beethoven and in a difficult passage, suddenly I had not sound, but I was still playing. I guess the lamp on my piano scooted over a button and shut off the sound LOL laugh

In all seriousness, I haven't done this, but I will listen to the action of the sound along with the actual tone to detect evenness (or unevenness). But I don't see any drawbacks from doing this as an exercise as long as you "sing" the notes in your head while doing so.


private piano/voice teacher FT

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Re: Anyone practice with the DP switched off? [Re: thickfingers] #2855870
06/05/19 06:44 PM
06/05/19 06:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,920
Auckland, New Zealand
T
Ted Online content
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Ted  Online Content
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T

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,920
Auckland, New Zealand
I do all my technical work on a silent Virgil Practice Clavier. Aside from much greater key resistance I suppose it is the same thing. I have never used the up and down clicks though, can’t see any point in them.


"We shall always love the music of the masters, but they are all dead and now it's our turn." - Llewelyn Jones, my piano teacher
Re: Anyone practice with the DP switched off? [Re: thickfingers] #2855934
06/06/19 02:39 AM
06/06/19 02:39 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 515
Just outside London UK
akc42 Offline
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akc42  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 515
Just outside London UK
Originally Posted by thickfingers
Just been trying to get a hang of using arm weight for consistency of key strike...Seems good practice to do it without sound.
Learning a new (little, again (Le Petit Rien, Couperin)) piece--getting a good feel for R/L synchrony, timing, etcetera just by listening to the key thumps. Today, anyway. Should sound quite nice when I can get it nice and even before I turn the DP back on...

Er, for non-acoustic users only, sorry for those stuck with genuine Steinways, et:c grin


I find this idea quite strange. Let me explain why

Many years ago now I read a book called the "Inner Game of Tennis" which really resonated with me. In effect it said there was two versions of you. There was a background you that just got on with the job. If it had feedback it would notice the mistakes and correct them automatically. In the foreground was the egotistical version of you. Very much a drill sergeant who would try and tell the background what to do. This version of you was also good at feeding in little worries - like "The last time you tried this it didn't work". The trick the "Inner Game" series (there was a whole number of these - and I recently learned there is an "Inner Game of Music" although I haven't read it) promotes its to distract foreground you into a task that provide background you with better feedback. In tennis its getting the foreground you to concentrate on when the ball bounces and when you hit it by saying "Bounce" and "Hit" at the exact moment it happens. This provides great feedback to the background you who then automatically alters the swing of the racket to hit the ball back over the net.

My teacher, who also has read the "Inner Game of Tennis", has me try and apply this sort of principal in playing the piano. I let background me figure out how to move my arm, hand and fingers and tell foreground me to listen to the sound that is produced. As an example of this, in my lesson two days ago a situation arose which is very similar to the issue you had. Its the 4th measure of Mozart's Turkish March where to two halves of the measure are the exact same notes. The music is in 2/4 time and the emphasis should only be on the fist note on the bar. I was emphasising both beats. My teacher noticed this as I was playing for her.

We spent some of the lesson playing over this small piece of the music trying various things, like missing out the note I was emphasising incorrectly, adding staccato rather than playing legato. All this was one with her asking foreground me to listen and sense what was happening. As no point was there any instruction to change the way my hand was working, but as I was playing and listening my hand figured out on its own what to do so very quickly the emphasis on the second beat disappeared and I was playing it smoothly.

A similar thing happened earlier in the lesson when I was explaining that the previous weeks practice had me struggling over some left hand grace note arpeggios in the third section of this piece. She just got me to concentrate on whether I was hearing all the notes of the arpeggio. A few times playing it through and I did eventually discover how to make all the notes of the arpeggio sound. It was then I noticed that my hand had moved upwards slightly and my index finger was much more curled than before. I hadn't consciously made those adjustments, that background me had discovered that was what it needed to do to make the sound I desired.

Hence my puzzlement. Consistency of key strike, your aim, it probably best achieved by hearing even sounds come out of the piano and letting background you figure out how to achieve that.

Re: Anyone practice with the DP switched off? [Re: Living_tribunal] #2855936
06/06/19 02:44 AM
06/06/19 02:44 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 374
Cheshire, UK
Cheshire Chris Offline
Full Member
Cheshire Chris  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 374
Cheshire, UK
Originally Posted by Living_tribunal
What is DP?


Digital piano.


Chris

Yamaha P-515, Yamaha Reface CP.
Re: Anyone practice with the DP switched off? [Re: Ted] #2856039
06/06/19 11:18 AM
06/06/19 11:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 614
UK
thickfingers Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
thickfingers  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 614
UK
Originally Posted by Ted
I do all my technical work on a silent Virgil Practice Clavier. Aside from much greater key resistance I suppose it is the same thing. I have never used the up and down clicks though, can’t see any point in them.

Interesting! Never heard of such a thing. So the idea is used widely, then. Just seems to me to work nicely for getting the movements down pat and crisp without the clutter of the sound. Metronomic.
Can't see what the benefit of "singing" the notes in your head while doing it would be--just be distracting from the goal: mechanism (if that's the word). I'm talking about drilling until the piece is fully learned, with correct timing and hand synchrony. "Technical work", yes.

Not a popular notion, it seems. Some odd replies to an odd suggestion. Well, hope it works for me...too early to say. Can't see how it's not good practice for acquiring dexterity, particularly when learning use of arm weight.

Arm weight (presumably) not too popular here, either...Barbara Lister-Sink phooey? Did search for it, only turned up one or two ancient threads. Seems an excellent way of doing it. Satisfying.

Re: Anyone practice with the DP switched off? [Re: thickfingers] #2856043
06/06/19 11:27 AM
06/06/19 11:27 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 565
India
N
noobpianist90 Offline
500 Post Club Member
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 565
India
Want to try something really crazy? Turn the volume all the way down and record yourself playing. You'll get a nice kick out of it when you play it back grin

I tried this a few times for reading practice some time ago. My idea back then was to see how well I could connect reading the sheet music to my keyboard memory without the musical feedback. An interesting thing I observed was that I could play most of the notes correctly, but I really struggled with the rhythm. I haven't tried it since. I didn't think it was all that useful.

Re: Anyone practice with the DP switched off? [Re: Cheshire Chris] #2856044
06/06/19 11:28 AM
06/06/19 11:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 82
L
Living_tribunal Offline
Full Member
Living_tribunal  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 82
Originally Posted by Cheshire Chris
Originally Posted by Living_tribunal
What is DP?


Digital piano.



I see.


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