Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
108 registered members (ando, akc42, amyram, AntonioC, 36251, AndrewJCW, amad23, 31 invisible), 1,803 guests, and 5 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Wrist Pain & Online Teaching [Re: TomInCinci] #2853029
05/28/19 07:46 AM
05/28/19 07:46 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,466
*sigh* Salt Lake City
malkin Offline
5000 Post Club Member
malkin  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,466
*sigh* Salt Lake City
RICE
rest, ice, compression, elevation


Learner
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Wrist Pain & Online Teaching [Re: malkin] #2853032
05/28/19 07:58 AM
05/28/19 07:58 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 237
T
TomInCinci Offline OP
Full Member
TomInCinci  Offline OP
Full Member
T

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 237
Originally Posted by malkin
RICE
rest, ice, compression, elevation


Thanks. My self image has me being smart enough to think of this one on my own but it actually wasn't occurring to me. A day, or even a few days, of no piano isn't going to kill me. But I'm going to need to give up the other keyboard as well, since I can't be sure what has caused this. I only hope the internet doesn't completely collapse without my wisdom!

Re: Wrist Pain & Online Teaching [Re: TomInCinci] #2853037
05/28/19 08:19 AM
05/28/19 08:19 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,466
*sigh* Salt Lake City
malkin Offline
5000 Post Club Member
malkin  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,466
*sigh* Salt Lake City
Originally Posted by TomInCinci
Originally Posted by malkin
RICE
rest, ice, compression, elevation


Thanks. My self image has me being smart enough to think of this one on my own but it actually wasn't occurring to me. A day, or even a few days, of no piano isn't going to kill me. But I'm going to need to give up the other keyboard as well, since I can't be sure what has caused this. I only hope the internet doesn't completely collapse without my wisdom!


It is easy to forget the obvious, especially when we are under stress, and any injury certainly qualifies as stress.
The amount and the degree of rest varies according to the problem. Sometimes it is enough to stop doing the thing that hurts you. Other times you need more rest than that.


Learner
Re: Wrist Pain & Online Teaching [Re: TomInCinci] #2854510
06/01/19 08:18 AM
06/01/19 08:18 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 237
T
TomInCinci Offline OP
Full Member
TomInCinci  Offline OP
Full Member
T

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 237
Just a courtesy follow up since so many of you offered ideas...

I haven't heard back from my physician. I'd wager he's on vacation. The RICE idea definitely seemed to help. I hate the wrist wraps but they help. The ice hurts like heck but only while I'm using it. I need a new weed trimmer. I have a 4 cycle Honda and it's way too heavy for me at the stage of life. It definitely tortures my wrists since I can't use the strap. And I had a session with a real teacher. Even through we had massive internet problems (on my end) he could see the tension that I could not. I was probably headed for trouble even without the trimmer. He's basically giving me the same advice as some of the videos you all sent me. The concepts are simple. The practice is torture. Until I get this down I have to step back way below where I thought I was and forget about playing anything at a tempo that sounds musical to me. I suppose it's a cold, hard, fact of nature that sometimes the things you hate are good for you and the things you enjoy are not. I did learn to swim across the deep end of the pool a couple of years ago. As hard as this is, at least I don't think there's much of a chance that I'll foul the piano bench...

Last edited by TomInCinci; 06/01/19 08:19 AM. Reason: had to look up 'heck'
Re: Wrist Pain & Online Teaching [Re: TomInCinci] #2854578
06/01/19 11:54 AM
06/01/19 11:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,303
Dublin
johnstaf Online crying
2000 Post Club Member
johnstaf  Online Crying
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,303
Dublin
Hopefully if you get the tension sorted out, you'll be back up to speed in no time. I have a tendon problem in my right hand and wrist. I can't comfortably lift anything heavy that makes my wrist want to twist, such as a full kettle. It causes me no problems at the piano at all.

I hate wrist straps too, but found them very useful on occasion. I have no doubt you'll manage to sort something out that will work for you. There was a time when I could hardly use my right hand without pain. I was fortunate to be assigned a wonderful physio at the hospital who knew quite a bit about the piano. She was able to give me tips to ensure piano playing wouldn't aggravate my wrist.

Re: Wrist Pain & Online Teaching [Re: TomInCinci] #2855069
06/02/19 11:08 PM
06/02/19 11:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 47
D
Dreamingstill Offline
Full Member
Dreamingstill  Offline
Full Member
D

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 47
TomInCinci, Dogs will cause a number of hands and elbows injuries as they have a tendency to pull forward or sideways without warning even when they are well-trained. A simple solution: Use a belt, fix a ring to it, and clip the leashes to it. Then you don't need your hands as much and your body mass can be used instead of your hands. The leashes need to have a bungee inside them to cushion sudden movements.

A pet store in your area that offers dog-sport equipment should carry a selection. This store https://www.canvasbackpets.com/collections/dog-sledding-pulling has a good selection and will ship to the US. They also have couplers to put two dogs on one leash. Explore and save your wrists.

Re: Wrist Pain & Online Teaching [Re: Dreamingstill] #2855118
06/03/19 07:34 AM
06/03/19 07:34 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 237
T
TomInCinci Offline OP
Full Member
TomInCinci  Offline OP
Full Member
T

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 237
Originally Posted by Dreamingstill
TomInCinci, Dogs will cause a number of hands and elbows injuries as they have a tendency to pull forward or sideways without warning even when they are well-trained. A simple solution: Use a belt, fix a ring to it, and clip the leashes to it. Then you don't need your hands as much and your body mass can be used instead of your hands. The leashes need to have a bungee inside them to cushion sudden movements.

A pet store in your area that offers dog-sport equipment should carry a selection. This store https://www.canvasbackpets.com/collections/dog-sledding-pulling has a good selection and will ship to the US. They also have couplers to put two dogs on one leash. Explore and save your wrists.


Thanks! My Pitt is strong as an ox and wants to go after every squirrel and rabbit along the way. He's actually very friendly and very wimpy but he's easily distracted. So unless I want to be dragged into the path of a garbage truck it's critical that both dogs are completely under control. I use a leash that has 2 snap hooks on it, one for their regular collar and a second, shorter one, for a pinch collar. I know the pinch collars cause some negative perceptions but they keep us all safe. The only issue I have is when we don't walk regularly and some of us forget what 'heal' means. We walked last night without nothing more than voice corrections.

I overcame my aversion to pinch collars after we got our German Shepherd. I was teaching her to walk on a leash after a life as a 'free range' dog. Like a fool I was using a 10 foot leash. Even worse, I lost situational awareness for a second. She was at the end of the leash and went after something in the opposite direction while I was checking out a sick tree in our woods. She ran 20 feet at top speed and jerked me and my herniated disks with a violent twisting motion. It looked like something from a cartoon as her neck stopped at the end of the leash and her body continued in the original direction. I had to walk with a cane for a week. The dog, of course, showed no sign of injury and was ready to do it again.

Re: Wrist Pain & Online Teaching [Re: TomInCinci] #2855321
06/03/19 10:09 PM
06/03/19 10:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 47
D
Dreamingstill Offline
Full Member
Dreamingstill  Offline
Full Member
D

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 47
Ah yes, this is why you need a leash with a bungee to absorb the shocks! While the spring extends when the dog takes a sudden run/turn you have just enough time to grab the leash with both hands and add your arms' strength to stop the hound and stay upright. Of course, responding to voice commands is ideal, but... I ran sled dogs for about four decades, I think I have seen most of the tricks dogs get up to...

Take care,

Re: Wrist Pain & Online Teaching [Re: TomInCinci] #2855470
06/04/19 01:31 PM
06/04/19 01:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 82
L
Living_tribunal Offline
Full Member
Living_tribunal  Offline
Full Member
L

Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 82
I'm not a fan of online lessons. There are so many things that will get missed when you have an online instructor from technique to more importantly sounds/musicality.

Regarding the wrist pain while doing scales, when I first started heavy practice (45min - 1 hour of scales a day) I was definitely getting sore wrists. My teacher had me press each key very heavy to strengthen up my fingers. My wrists also get extra sore when doing long arpeggio practice.

If you're new then some soreness will happen if you're aggressive with your scales practice. This goes away once you have that 4th finger strength. Just make sure to take breaks every few minutes. If you bust out scales for 45 minutes straight without pause you will certainly be sore.

Re: Wrist Pain & Online Teaching [Re: Dreamingstill] #2855681
06/05/19 08:39 AM
06/05/19 08:39 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 237
T
TomInCinci Offline OP
Full Member
TomInCinci  Offline OP
Full Member
T

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 237
Originally Posted by Dreamingstill
Ah yes, this is why you need a leash with a bungee to absorb the shocks! While the spring extends when the dog takes a sudden run/turn you have just enough time to grab the leash with both hands and add your arms' strength to stop the hound and stay upright. Of course, responding to voice commands is ideal, but... I ran sled dogs for about four decades, I think I have seen most of the tricks dogs get up to...

Take care,


I can't even imagine how you ever get a team of sled dogs trained. I've been through several pairings of dogs as mine, sadly, age and pass away. It's always the same issue training a pair of them to heal. It becomes a contest, like nearly everything they do, to see who can get at least a nose ahead. It starts with just a nose and in no time I'm getting my left arm yanked. Every year I train this out of them and then after a few months off for the winter the behavior comes back.

This is probably similar the the frustrations I've caused for my piano teachers... smile

Re: Wrist Pain & Online Teaching [Re: TomInCinci] #2862710
06/25/19 05:59 PM
06/25/19 05:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 237
T
TomInCinci Offline OP
Full Member
TomInCinci  Offline OP
Full Member
T

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 237
Since I came here to bum advice I thought another follow up was appropriate...

My Skype teacher definitely had me change my ways. It was hard and I have to think about what I'm doing but I think it will be automatic some day. But I had a very bad internet connection for the Skype session. It's amazing that he could see anything. Well, I'm out of the wrist wraps now and maybe I'm gonna be lucky. And last night I had some actual time with a teacher in person and she taught me how to do C-E-G-C arpeggios (the exercise that started this) without pain. She taught me to rotate my wrists in the horizontal plane instead of violently stabbing out my rightmost fingers to reach the octave. It's nothing to be proud of but I'm not convinced I would have figured it out on my own.

No one is healthy forever, and I can't swear it's not arthritis that's going to come back with a vengeance, but today I'm quite content. Not giving up piano yet!

Re: Wrist Pain & Online Teaching [Re: TomInCinci] #2862714
06/25/19 06:10 PM
06/25/19 06:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 6,958
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 6,958
Originally Posted by TomInCinci
My Skype teacher definitely had me change my ways. It was hard and I have to think about what I'm doing but I think it will be automatic some day. But I had a very bad internet connection for the Skype session. It's amazing that he could see anything.

Just a suggestion but I was something you might consider is trying Zoom.us. It is free to try, although to be able to turn off audio compression which is good for piano lessons, they do want one side of the connection to be paid subscriber (for reference, Skype has audio compression which cannot be turned off). I used to use Skype too and had problems with lag, and Zoom has been great on the same connection. Just in the last two weeks, I've had some video issues start, but this is not due to connection speed but because my computer was just set up badly so it is now overloaded, but before this happened, I had only about one video issue in about 2-3 months.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Wrist Pain & Online Teaching [Re: TomInCinci] #2862724
06/25/19 06:40 PM
06/25/19 06:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 237
T
TomInCinci Offline OP
Full Member
TomInCinci  Offline OP
Full Member
T

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 237
Yeah, I have some business meetings where Zoom is used. But my guy still uses Skype. Here at home where I have a fiber optic line I thought it worked pretty well. At 'work' where I'm running a repeater, well not so great. But it was a one time thing. I lost my nice home office where I used to do the Skype thing.

Re: Wrist Pain & Online Teaching [Re: TomInCinci] #2862792
06/25/19 11:54 PM
06/25/19 11:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,899
San Jose, CA
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Jeff Clef  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,899
San Jose, CA
"...If you bust out scales for 45 minutes straight without pause you will certainly be sore...."

Maybe. Didn't happen for me, but maybe it was because I took so long to learn all of them that it may have served as a protective factor. Anyway, I do them a bit differently than I have seen in books, Hanon, etc. I run up and down the whole keyboard with each scale, three times: first and last in duple time, as you usually see them. The middle run is in triplets. It breaks up the monolithic habit that can form, it's kind of fun, and some of them are actually easier in triple meter.

I do them every day, but not the whole lot. One day is sharp key signatures, the other is the flat keys. It used to take 45 minutes, but now I run right through them in less than 30. This never makes my hands sore. Omitting the warm-ups is what makes them sore. My tech (a Performance major who now tunes instead) has weaned me away from the early Hanon pages (which can, indeed, make for trouble if the posture, and hand/arm movements, are not guarded) and instead going to the Bach "Inventions." It's real music and it works on several things at once. Power-lifting. So to speak. It is also a perimeter guard, fending off senility. When some neural paths have been destroyed, it shows up right away and you do something right away to fix the damage.

There's always a new thing to learn or to work on that is challenging for awhile... but boredom never has a chance to get much of a hold. Tom the OP, I'm so glad to hear you take up the challenge of learning to get where you want to be, in a new way that doesn't destroy your physical well-being or throw your career as a musician off the tracks. When train wrecks happen to musical people, it is so heartbreaking. Yours may be the first to break, but it won't be the only one.

"...when the dog takes a sudden run/turn you have just enough time to grab the leash with both hands and add your arms' strength to stop the hound and stay upright. Of course, responding to voice commands is ideal, but..."

Not to be too fussy about it, but Pits [American Staffordshire Terriers] belong to the terrier clade. I'm sure you know the difference. My dogs are Basenjis, in the hound group. When they put their 30-pounds of excited dog muscle into something really exciting like a squirrel, a bitch, or anything moving past fast enough to chase, it's a jerk your hands, wrists, and arms (and maybe, back) will remember, unless you are very, very pro-active. They can run 40 mph and chew through tire rubber....

But I don't care. I love them for what they are. I hear what you say about the keen sadness that comes with their fleeting lives. One of mine that I am so crazy about, is 16 (14 is a ripe age for this breed; many don't go past 12) and has bad cataracts and a seizure disorder. Yet, he is still having a good time, and wants to stay with us. I don't care that the upkeep is so much higher; I'll put up with anything. I'm still learning from this fellow, and he still loves his daddy.

Sorry about the long divergent tangents. It is good luck that your issue, which made you ask for help, had been taken care of by the time I saw the thread.


Clef

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  BB Player 

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Heintzman & Co. project opinion
by D.P.. 10/15/19 05:56 PM
Playing by ear
by KuroMisaka. 10/15/19 02:47 PM
Why I’m convinced a good teacher is ESSENTIAL
by WeakLeftHand. 10/15/19 02:40 PM
A question for sight readers
by hag01. 10/15/19 10:36 AM
Help me choose my next DP
by idfpiano. 10/15/19 10:15 AM
What's Hot!!
Our August Newsletter is Out!
------------------
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tour!

-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics194,537
Posts2,879,486
Members94,679
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1