Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Need advice on Yamaha C1M or Boston GP163, thx

Hi everyone,

Have been here earlier on asking about Boston grands and now....have come to the final stage of choosing between a Yamaha C1M (a newly refined model based on the C1 ) and Boston GP163. They are just an inch difference - C1M: 5'3/ GP163: 5'4 and just enough to fit into one corner of my house....in HK. I wonder if anyone would have any suggestions as to which one is better or more reliable. I've tried both and found both equally impressive in terms of tone and touch. Please advise and many thanks!

BTW, does anyone know the difference between Yamaha C1L and C1M? I've looked at both specs and found similar except the white and black keys are different in materials used. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
iamgoobie

I am not sure if the C1 has a soft-fall fallboard (it does not slam on your fingers), but that would be one difference. Quality-wise they are both fine pianos. The Boston does have a wider soundboard for the same size Yamaha, as they have a wider rim tail than the C-series Yamahas. Boston tapers the soundboard which gives more flexibility and potential to the soundboard. The rim of the Boston is thicker and thus gives a little more projection. There are more details I could get into but I don't want to be long-winded. Keep in mind, Steinway & Sons' (they design the Boston piano) passion is pianos...that's all they do. Yamaha builds a lot of products (boats, engines, motorcycles, drums, etc...) and thus has its focus on multiple things. Good luck with your decision!

Let's at least stay serious and fair. Yamaha is as dedicated to piano bulding as any piano manufacturer can be. Making pianos since about 1900, their acoustic piano devision, as a completely independent business unit within Yamaha Global, has set standards in piano manufacturing in many areas (http://www.yamaha.co.jp/english/product/piano/kakegawa/index.html)

And if one wants to play that "dirty" game any how then I could say Steinway & Sons, which outsources the production of two of their brands -Boston & Essex - to Kawai, P.R resp., is part of Steinway Musical Instruments Inc., which ownes amongst S&S also band and percussion instruments and many other activities (http://www.steinwaymusical.com/brands.php). So is there here the also a lack of focus?

So that quoted statement is complete nonsense! Btw, I cannot be supected as being partial to Yamaha: I never owned a Yamaha piano and am not going to won one in the near future.

iamgoobie, you could have a look at: http://www.yamaha-europe.com/yamaha...0807_New_Conservatoire_Pianos/index.html

schwammerl.

How thankful I am to both of you for taking the time to offer your advice, Pianomadam and schwammerl! Today, I went to another branch of the piano shop that sells both brands and had a really good try on both again. Sadly and honestly, they aren't really my cup of tea. Next to them was a Petrof NIV (I suppose it's a newer version of PIV) and I played on it and instantly fell in love with it. My Gosh! What a difference! The touch was fantastic compared to the blurry touch of Boston GP163 and stiffly touch of Yamaha C1M.

Having done mths of window-shopping for the right grand, I'm pretty tired of having to do that again. I'd say Petrof is going to be my cup of tea for this moment.

Now, I have a few doubts and hope there are experts here who could advise on them.

Q1. What is the difference between the Petrof NIV and PIV? The dealer told me that the NIV is an improved version of PIV in quality and so on. Is he right? I've heard that in the last 5 to 10 years, I suppose, the quality and reliability of Petrof uprights and grands are pretty unfit. From which year onwards are the Petrofs being improved?

Q2. As my house (a part of it) is not spacious enough to accomodate a P/NIV, I could still place it there if I want to but frankly, there's hardly any room for walking in and out. I wonder if the Petrof N/PV would be a better choice? Has anyone tried or owned a Petrof N/PV? What's it like? Is it worse than the N/PIV?

I'd really appreciate if anyone could spare time to offer your advice on both versions N and P and IV and V. Please, please help! Thx soooo much again for advising,everyone.

iamgoobie T_T

I am confused with all the letter prefixes and suffixes you are asking about. All my experience is in the U.S. There may be some sub-models not distributed there.

Are these pianos new or used? Often manufacturers will add a letter to delineate an itteration modification to an existing model in their line up. Most have ceased this process in recent years.

Here is my recommendation. Source the actual serial number to find the year of the build. Newer pianos will always incorporate evolutionary changes that don't warranty a new "model" designation. Nearly all brand and models of pianos improve as time marches on.

The Petrof model IV is a 5'8". Bigger pianos nearly always have a bigger sound. The Petrof is European and will have that charastic European sound. The Yamaha and the Boston are Asian and will have that charastic Asian piano sound. These are distinct genres in sound. Not better or worse, just different.

The only era when the Petrof pianos were poorer quality was during the Soviet era. This technically ended in 1989. It took several years for the Petrof family to regain complete ownership and retool the factory for moden manufacturing up to Western standards of quality and performance. Petrof's came into their own after about 1995.

iamgoobie,

I'm very curious about the Hong Kong market. What are the prices like for the pianos you're considering? Are the prices for Yamaha C1, Boston GP163, and Petrof IV all about the same on Hong Kong?

Gosh, this is sleazy.

"And if one wants to play that "dirty" game any how then I could say Steinway & Sons, which outsources the production of two of their brands -Boston & Essex - to Kawai, P.R resp., is part of Steinway Musical Instruments Inc., which ownes amongst S&S also band and percussion instruments and many other activities"

---Good to hear from you, Schwammerl. I would not consider it a "dirty game" to state what is a fact. Do you see the Steinway & Sons, Boston, or Essex name on anything but a piano? Iamgoobie was asking for some differentials and I, thus, gave him/her some. Good day...

Iamgoobie, I would certainly encourage you to try more than just one or two of the respective models you are considering. As you may know, each piano has its own character and it is worth trying several before dismissing one model or the entire brand. Just my 2 cents! Have fun in your search!

What disturbed me was the statement: , insinuating the Yamaha piano devision may be distracted from doing what they are supposed to do - building pianos - just because they are part of a larger corporation with multiple diverisfied activities!

The fact that Yamaha corportaion is using just one name "Yamaha" to brand all their products -whether pianos, motocycles or drums - is pointless. This is just a global strategic marketing choice and Steinwaymusical has chosen to have multiple brand names (Steinway, Boston, Essex, Conn-Selmer..), that's fine. Whenever possible also Steinway tries to draw benefits from the Steinway brandname recognition, and that's fine too: "the Family of Steinway Designed Pianos" (which stands for S&S, Boston, Essex).

Although the various business units whithin a global company may be completely independent, the corporate structure will have to take strategic decisions all the time. But as the S&S workforce is not involded in the production of e.g. band or percusion isntruments, so is also the workforce in Yamaha's piano factories not tweaking on motorcycles, thus leading to a lack of focus.

schwammerl.

Yes, please see http://www.steinwaylyngdorf.com/

The "Steinway & Sons" name now also appears on a hi-fi sound system.

Pianomadam,

http://steinwaycollections.com/catalog.asp?CategoryID=2126

Please explain to us how Steinway pianos have deteriorated, since they have lost their focus and are making umbrellas, golf equipment, sunglasses, bags, clothing etc. All with the Steinway name and/or logo.

Oooo! Good one, Keith! I forgot about those Steinway and Sons paraphernalia!

"insinuating the Yamaha piano devision may be distracted from doing what they are supposed to do - building pianos - just because they are part of a larger corporation with multiple diverisfied activities!"

---The problem does lie in the multiple focuses of the company and how keeping investors satisfied ultimately ends up hurting the product (e.g. you have a bad year in piano sales so you pour more money into motorcycles). Everyone knows that Yamaha is more of a marketing company than it is an R&D company.


Axtremus & Keith:

Oh, come on...you know that making a stereo system and having some clothes/pins to advertise your product is totally different than manufacturing multiple genres of products and trying to be an expert in all of those genres.

What an apt self-diagnosis!

In any thread that mentions an Essex or Boston piano your posts almost invariably are a sell job. You present 'facts' that often aren't (they're opinions instead), or which are clearly selective. We understand your point of view, but a sales rep doesn't garner much credibility here by so obviously sticking to the sales training sheet.

Sounds a lot like Steinway.
I have to say that nothing says sales weasel more than putting down Yamaha pianos not based on what is missing from a particular model, but because another division of their company makes an unrelated product.
Do you let your prospects know that Steinway would make better pianos if only they were more focused on pianos rather than also having another division of the company making band instruments? Or perhaps you inform your prospects about how Steinway is a publicly traded company and "how keeping investors satisfied ultimately ends up hurting the product."
Every post you make, PianoMadam, sets a new standard in worthlessness. And, I know your answer will be " give me an example of my worthless posts". Well, we are all waiting for you to give an example of a thoughtful post that isn't some rehashed nonsense out of the Steinway/Boston/Essex sales training or from a brochure. It is getting old. Also, please don't play the "poor me, everyone hates me because I sell new Steinways." That is old and transparent as well. It is not what you sell, it is the garbage you write here.

Remember Luke's Dad? Now he was a good Steinway salesman. But he sells Yamaha now!

BTW, I looked up Yamaha's 2007 financial report and Steinway's 2006 10k filing. I tried to compare their marketing and R&D expenditures, but couldn't because (1) Yamaha reports R&D expenditure but does not report marketing expenditure, and (2) Steinway reports marketing expenditure but doesn't report R&D expenditure.

Iamgoobie:

Here in America Yamaha has redesigned the C1 and C2 models to be identical in construction and features to the C3 and up. I don't know if this is the same model you are referring to (I suspect it is), because Yamaha doesn't have an L or M designation on the models for North America. I will list the changes to the new C1 here, which perhaps you can verify with your dealer in Hong kong:

- Stronger plate flange
- Harder rim materials (not sure what exactly, my guess is more maple in the rim), Yamaha lists the benefit as giving the piano a more powerful tone and better sustain
- New music desk style (cosmetic)
- Brass lid prop cups (cosmetic)
- Smoother inner rim (cosmetic)
- New plate color (cosmetic)
- Maple bridge caps
- Ivorite keytops
- Wood composite sharps
- Vertically laminated bridges

We just got one in and it is an improvement over previous C models.


In response to PM's assertion that Yamaha doesn't focus all of it's 5 billion dollar company into pianos, all I have to say is:

NO DUH.


Well, prehaps a little more:
You show me any piano manufacturer that reports an annual gross sale figure of over 5 billion, soely from the sale of acoustic pianos. Of the 150k (rough number I recall from a trade magazine) new pianos reportedly sold in the US in 2006, even a manuafacturer with 100% market value would have to have sold EVERY ONE of those instruments with an average wholesale selling price of 33.4k.

fOr those who are unaware...
Yamaha has been building pianos since 1900, and it wasn't until 1954 that Yamaha started to build anything other than musical instruments (motorcycles). Before that, they were strictly organs, guitars, and pianos. You look at any Yamaha motorcycle emblem, and it's 3 tuning forks in a circle (don't tell that to the rider unless you feel like holding a steak to your face).

Anynone interested in learning more about Yamaha, it's history, or products, should visit their global gateway:
http://www.global.yamaha.com/about/index.html

A million thanks to ***EVERYONE*** who took time to share your views here! This is amazing! I'm sooooo grateful to you all! I've really learnt sooooo much about pianos here. Keep up the PASSION you have for music & piano! With limits to budget, accomodation and consideration to very high humidity in HK, Yamaha C1 is so far the only choice I have. But as i've mentioned earlier, I didn't quite like the stiffly touch. Boston is definitely out of my list...sadly, given all the comments and personal experiences I've heard through friends, technicians, professors and read online. As I've tried the Petrof P/N IV, I'd say it's the best among the three. But sadly again, P/N IV is a little too big for my house.

Now, the only choice I've is the P/N V version.
I'd say if nothing better pops up in the next few weeks, Petrof P/N V is the deal! If anyone has tried or owned this model, do you mind sharing your views on it? THX again to you all for your advice. Hope u are all enjoying your life off line too!

iamgoobie

"BTW, I looked up Yamaha's 2007 financial report and Steinway's 2006 10k filing. I tried to compare their marketing and R&D expenditures, but couldn't because (1) Yamaha reports R&D expenditure but does not report marketing expenditure, and (2) Steinway reports marketing expenditure but doesn't report R&D expenditure"

---so, then, I guess this proves nothing until you are able to get both figures from both companies. Also, isn't comparing two different years statistically unreliable?

"In any thread that mentions an Essex or Boston piano your posts almost invariably are a sell job"

---what would you have me do instead, PianoDad? That's like telling Tiger Woods not to show up to a Nike Conference because you want people to do their own research on what shoes to wear.