Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Voicing down a Young Chang upright

I have been searching for a used upright piano for our church hall community centre for about a week now and I have found a few good options at various price points.

One of the lower costing options is a 33-year old Young Chang U-131 selling for $2000 CAD ($1500 USD). The trouble with this piano however is that it is extremely bright sounding. It has a shrill shimmering tone on the attack part of the tone on every note (especially the important middle section). If I can recall, I think many Young Changs I have played in the past are usually on the bright side but maybe not as bright as this particular one.

Do other technicians here find this same problem with Young Changs of this era? Should I take a risk and consider this piano for our purposes as our student recital piano hoping that I can voice it down after I purchase it or is this too risky? I have done a little voicing myself in the past but I don't have a lot of experience although I have been mentored by some of the most experienced techs in my area.

Listening to this sharp, almost buzzing bright attack I would experiment carefully first on only one hammer in the following manner:

1. needling on the high shoulder with very shallow needling (at about 3mm). Needling only a couple of strokes first, then testing its sound after each group of two shallow strokes.

2. if this is not effective, needling extra shallow needling (at only 2mm deep) almost at the crown. I know this part is extremely sensitive because its near the crown and therefore would take great care and to test the resulting sound on one hammer first a few strokes at a time.

I would approach the voicing with caution and careful listening.

As an alternative to needling I could simply purchase some hammer softening chemical from Schaff or PianoTek and apply this to one hammer to test for a difference.

Does anyone here have any experience with Young Changs in this respect with needling or softeners?

Or is this simply the nature of the tone of Young Chang pianos or the characteristics of the Young Chang strings themselves in which case the needling or chemical softeners may not be effective? In this case I would simply avoid this piano as an option and continue looking. By the way, we did find a fantastic used U1 however it is more pricey of course at $4200 CAD ($3100 USD). Tomorrow I will be looking at U5AS silent as well. Lots of options although I don't want to rule out this bright $2000 Young Chang just yet.

Thank you for any suggestions,

Mike

I think they do tend to be hard/bright. But you don't have to put up with a sound that's as hard as nails. Steam voicing might be a fast and effective option.....

I wouldn't count on voicing. IMO it is safer to look for a piano that you like the tone as it is.

I agree with Hakki here... I worked on these pianos back when I was starting, as that was one of my employer's lines (ok, well 21 years ago-- but close enough).
These "instruments" were terrible in the treble (killed me in the last 2 octaves- made me want to laugh when I tuned up there).
There was really no solution to the bright tone on these instruments. Though I suppose if you got soft enough hammers?-- But, you wuold probably have no sound in the treble by the time you killed the "garbage" (as some people like to call it) tones.
This instrument is a prime example of what we refer to when we speak of an "Asian" sound/tone. All instruments were coming in terribly bright-- Yamaha's were exceptionally bright back then, but somewhat acceptable. YC was impossible!-- basically it was a low-level, entry piano, which would never have been considered seriously for a performing instrument.
That started changing, from what I understand, since Del took over the design of the pianos back in the 2008. Complete change to the way they were doing things. Still a ways to go to get to the top, but heading up.

Although I get looks of disbelief when I talk about this with other techs, I have used VS-PROFELT successfully many times to remedy this situation and bring about a very pleasing sound that lasts.

WARNING!: This is powerful stuff. Use it with caution. If overused you can create a pillow.

With the above warning clearly in mind this is what I would do on a piano such as you have described:

1) Transfer the VS-PROFELT to a small container with a very fine tip. My favorite is a recycled BSI CA glue bottle with extra fine applicator tip. Very controllable. Very important.

2) For normal toning down I would start with one drop per string mark right at strike point. If there are grooves I would apply drops along each groove (no more than three per groove).

3) Let it dry completely (overnight) to let it do it's work.

4. Try it and see if anything happened. It always does, but if it is not what I want I'll do it again and double the dosage.

5) If I get pretty close to what I want but there are a few that still stick out, I will treat them again individually (lightly).

6) An alternative to drops is to simply trace a line of application straight across the strike area the first time, second time two or three lines across. (If this is not clear let me know).


VERY HARD HAMMERS :

1) Apply enough to penetrate about 2-3mm at strike. Do not go more than this on the first application. You can see it from the side so you know how far it is penetrating. Be careful.

2) Let it dry completely as above.

3) Try it. It will make a difference. If not enough, try again but less this time. (IOW you are following the opposite procedure from above).

4) If you like the direction it is going but it's not there yet, keep it up in small increments going down the shoulders.


I have never had to apply more than two applications to get what I want. I HAVE GONE TOO FAR also (in my experimental days). This is how I know to give the warning above.

Even if you do go too far by accident, you can bring things back to normal with traditional lacquer or other gardeners. The key is to go progressively with it. The down side is that you do not get immediate results and must way till it drys completely.

I find it very effective when used with caution and good sense.

Pwg

That Young Chang would probably benefit from some new hammers. I put Ari Issac Cadenza hammers in two 1989 (or somewhere around there) grands. The result was beautiful. 'Even singing tone throughout the scale. The difference was astonishing. It's not the wire that makes these pianos harsh and shrill.

I don't believe the entire issue was with the wire, but-- I find it hard to believe you got anything worth what we would rank as a quality treble tone...Would love to hear the results myself. I always assumed you would have to go so soft that you would lose your treble volume altogether. Interesting.
The entire scale and overall design of YC was out of whack back in the days--- this is why Del coming on the scene made such a big difference! I find it hard to think of quality tone being possible from those "instruments".

Oops! I missed the OP reference to YC upright. 'Nevermind. Doh.

Thank you everyone for all this advice. This sheds a bright light on the issue and what steps might need to be taken to reduce the brightness of this incredibly bright Young Change U-131. Of course the easiest solution is to just walk away from such a piano which is what I have had to do due to certain circumstances. Our piano selection committee at our church which I work with just surprised me yesterday with news that they are leaning towards purchasing a digital piano for our church community hall venue. I'm really disappointed but I do feel I have provided for them a good reference point from which they were able to make a decision. I had found and auditioned seven acoustic piano options in our local used market and narrowed down the options to three which were all good pianos at various price points from $600-$4300. My favourite was a Yamaha U1 from 1989 that was in fantastic condition and sounded absolutely beautiful with a superb action - the tuning pins also were not loose like other old Yamahas I have tuned. They were asking $4300 CAD ($3200 USD). Perhaps in the future our church might consider an acoustic piano. Buts thats a whole other discussion.

But this voicing discussion has been fantastic! Thank you! The next time I come across a bright Young Chang or any bright piano I hope to be able to experiment with some of these methods. I would like to give PW Grey's detailed advice a try and will look for some VS-Profelt and proceed carefully as cautioned if I ever encounter an piano like this in the future. I first heard about VS-Profelt from PianoTek. Next time I am purchasing something from PianoTek I will add a bottle of this to my order. Steaming sounds like a viable option as well. Great discussion! Thank you once again!

Mike