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Re: Inadequate piano teacher punches and abuses 8 years old girl [Re: outo] #2854052
05/30/19 10:23 PM
05/30/19 10:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 184
West Australia
Lostinidlewonder Offline
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West Australia
Originally Posted by outo
Originally Posted by Lostinidlewonder
Originally Posted by outo
Originally Posted by Lostinidlewonder
They should show this video at the prison he will be staying in, inmates like to give child abusers special treatment. His playing also is harsh and ugly which fits his personality.


Probably his own teacher taught that way, I have talked to people who had Russian teachers that hit them. Not everyone has the patience to teach but it does not make them monsters. The poor guy just needs to rethink his career plans.

I don't think this is a normal practice even in Russia given that he is under arrest. You are right not eveyrone has the patience to teach but if you abuse an innocent child like this you are a monster and if anyone disagrees well then I feel quite sorry for their sense of ethics.


Things change, it's not normal practice anymore in most western countries, but I am old enough to remember a time when punching kids was not considered abuse unless there was actual physical damage and if we go back a couple of more decades it was considered abuse not to raise your kids with proper dicipline (which those days meant physical punishment). So most of us have grandparents or parents that were monsters. And whatever ethics I have it does not include being part of a lynch mob...

Calling this guy a monster is not being a part of a lynch mob I would expect him to get all the shame the public has to offer him it might teach him something about how to treat children, but not lynch him. A child is an innocent, helpless being who should be protected and nurtured. Sure we did horrible things in the past but we live in the 21st century with different expectations that everyone understands (certainly teachers dealing with other families children!!). So even mentioning that in the past that teachers did this really is quite irrelevant to todays ethical standards it certainly won't help in a court case. Parents physically disciplining their child is different to a piano teacher doing it, nothing in a piano lesson should call for it.

Last edited by Lostinidlewonder; 05/30/19 10:32 PM.

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Re: Inadequate piano teacher punches and abuses 8 years old girl [Re: PianoStartsAt33] #2854063
05/31/19 12:08 AM
05/31/19 12:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 709
Vancouver BC
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The Monkeys Offline
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This is the so-called "Russian School"?

Re: Inadequate piano teacher punches and abuses 8 years old girl [Re: Lostinidlewonder] #2854069
05/31/19 12:39 AM
05/31/19 12:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,415
Finland
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outo Offline
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Originally Posted by Lostinidlewonder

Calling this guy a monster is not being a part of a lynch mob I would expect him to get all the shame the public has to offer him it might teach him something about how to treat children, but not lynch him. A child is an innocent, helpless being who should be protected and nurtured. Sure we did horrible things in the past but we live in the 21st century with different expectations that everyone understands (certainly teachers dealing with other families children!!). So even mentioning that in the past that teachers did this really is quite irrelevant to todays ethical standards it certainly won't help in a court case. Parents physically disciplining their child is different to a piano teacher doing it, nothing in a piano lesson should call for it.


I guess being aware of the kind of suffering children go through in the world every day just makes me put things into a different perspective...

This guy should not teach children, that we can agree on. But unless he did something more than just punch the girl while teaching, this will be a minor offence in any non extreme criminal system. Here no-one would go to jail for something like that. The fact that he is arrested says nothing, because if someone brings out child abuse the police has to investigate and Russia is not famous for civil rights or consistency of their justice system.

Re: Inadequate piano teacher punches and abuses 8 years old girl [Re: PianoStartsAt33] #2854080
05/31/19 01:39 AM
05/31/19 01:39 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 293
Cali
Terry Michael Offline
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The man has issues obviously. Those need to be dealt with. Hopefully the girl is not mentally scarred for life. It’s an unfortunate situation.


TH
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Re: Inadequate piano teacher punches and abuses 8 years old girl [Re: outo] #2854081
05/31/19 01:41 AM
05/31/19 01:41 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 184
West Australia
Lostinidlewonder Offline
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West Australia
Originally Posted by outo
Originally Posted by Lostinidlewonder

Calling this guy a monster is not being a part of a lynch mob I would expect him to get all the shame the public has to offer him it might teach him something about how to treat children, but not lynch him. A child is an innocent, helpless being who should be protected and nurtured. Sure we did horrible things in the past but we live in the 21st century with different expectations that everyone understands (certainly teachers dealing with other families children!!). So even mentioning that in the past that teachers did this really is quite irrelevant to todays ethical standards it certainly won't help in a court case. Parents physically disciplining their child is different to a piano teacher doing it, nothing in a piano lesson should call for it.


I guess being aware of the kind of suffering children go through in the world every day just makes me put things into a different perspective...

This guy should not teach children, that we can agree on. But unless he did something more than just punch the girl while teaching, this will be a minor offence in any non extreme criminal system. Here no-one would go to jail for something like that. The fact that he is arrested says nothing, because if someone brings out child abuse the police has to investigate and Russia is not famous for civil rights or consistency of their justice system.

"The World Health Organization ([WHO], 2006, p. 9) defines child abuse and neglect as:

All forms of physical and/or emotional ill-treatment, sexual abuse, neglect or negligent treatment or commercial or other exploitation, resulting in actual or potential harm to the child’s health, survival, development or dignity in the context of a relationship of responsibility, trust or power."

Of course each country has different laws but according to the WHO this fellow has abused the child with physical and emotional ill treatment and if proven in court that the childs health was severely impacted it will not do his case well, his abuse of his power and trust as a teacher will be put under question. I would be worried if this is all swept under the carpet as he has a high propensity for reoffending given his profession, I would hope that Russia has some standards for child protection and disciplining those who abuse their power in their work dealing with children. In Australia we have a "working with children check" which we require to teach any child, any child abuse history this will effect our ability to get such a pass which I think is great to protect our young ones from people who have been caught out treating children poorly.


Last edited by Lostinidlewonder; 05/31/19 01:48 AM.

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Re: Inadequate piano teacher punches and abuses 8 years old girl [Re: Terry Michael] #2854201
05/31/19 11:34 AM
05/31/19 11:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
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Tyrone Slothrop Offline
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Originally Posted by Terry Michael
The man has issues obviously. Those need to be dealt with. Hopefully the girl is not mentally scarred for life. It’s an unfortunate situation.

Based on what he says in the video, it's apparent it isn't a first lesson. It's very possible he has been slapping the back of her head before in past lessons and she told her parents, which is why there is this hidden camera set up to record this lesson. She appears to be 6-7 years old, which is a very formative time for children. This sort of thing could definitely could be scarring.

My wife says she wasn't scarred by her piano teacher and mother slapping the back of her head, but I don't know that one can even know for sure when you are scarred and when you are not, as by definition, you haven't experienced the other case (where your head wasn't being slapped), to be able to compare.


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Re: Inadequate piano teacher punches and abuses 8 years old girl [Re: The Monkeys] #2854219
05/31/19 12:09 PM
05/31/19 12:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 415
Udachny, North-East Siberia
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Originally Posted by The Monkeys
This is the so-called "Russian School"?


Looks like that.
My previous teacher told me once that in a music school she worked in, she gave 5-years boy "F" for his bad playing and wrote this "F" on his forhead with a pen.
Some weeks after I asked her:"How's that boy on who's forhead you carved "F" with a knife?"

She told me this because she thought it's really funny.
I can only guess how much terrible stuff remains untold.


"No succes of failure matters when it's about true vocation". Nicolás Gómez Dávila
“The goal of music is to help people live”. Francis Bebey

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Re: Inadequate piano teacher punches and abuses 8 years old girl [Re: Lostinidlewonder] #2854227
05/31/19 12:28 PM
05/31/19 12:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,415
Finland
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outo Offline
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Originally Posted by Lostinidlewonder
Originally Posted by outo
Originally Posted by Lostinidlewonder

Calling this guy a monster is not being a part of a lynch mob I would expect him to get all the shame the public has to offer him it might teach him something about how to treat children, but not lynch him. A child is an innocent, helpless being who should be protected and nurtured. Sure we did horrible things in the past but we live in the 21st century with different expectations that everyone understands (certainly teachers dealing with other families children!!). So even mentioning that in the past that teachers did this really is quite irrelevant to todays ethical standards it certainly won't help in a court case. Parents physically disciplining their child is different to a piano teacher doing it, nothing in a piano lesson should call for it.


I guess being aware of the kind of suffering children go through in the world every day just makes me put things into a different perspective...

This guy should not teach children, that we can agree on. But unless he did something more than just punch the girl while teaching, this will be a minor offence in any non extreme criminal system. Here no-one would go to jail for something like that. The fact that he is arrested says nothing, because if someone brings out child abuse the police has to investigate and Russia is not famous for civil rights or consistency of their justice system.

"The World Health Organization ([WHO], 2006, p. 9) defines child abuse and neglect as:

All forms of physical and/or emotional ill-treatment, sexual abuse, neglect or negligent treatment or commercial or other exploitation, resulting in actual or potential harm to the child’s health, survival, development or dignity in the context of a relationship of responsibility, trust or power."

Of course each country has different laws but according to the WHO this fellow has abused the child with physical and emotional ill treatment and if proven in court that the childs health was severely impacted it will not do his case well, his abuse of his power and trust as a teacher will be put under question. I would be worried if this is all swept under the carpet as he has a high propensity for reoffending given his profession, I would hope that Russia has some standards for child protection and disciplining those who abuse their power in their work dealing with children. In Australia we have a "working with children check" which we require to teach any child, any child abuse history this will effect our ability to get such a pass which I think is great to protect our young ones from people who have been caught out treating children poorly.



I don't really see the relevance of the WHO quote here...
When I said minor offence I was referring to the severity of the crime and what sort of punishment is expected in a reasonable justice system unless there's more that we did not see. It would not be a prison sentence but something else. No-one talked about swepping it under carpet. I could tell you quite a lot about the standards in Russia BTW, but this is not a place for political discussions.

We too have working with children checks here... shown to be pretty ineffective as a means of protection, but keeps the public happier as do unreasonable sentences for crimes, no matter the costs to society. But as I said, we are not supposed to discuss politics...It should be enough to say that what we saw is not accepted for a piano teacher anymore.

Re: Inadequate piano teacher punches and abuses 8 years old girl [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2854228
05/31/19 12:31 PM
05/31/19 12:31 PM
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Posts: 4,415
Finland
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Terry Michael
The man has issues obviously. Those need to be dealt with. Hopefully the girl is not mentally scarred for life. It’s an unfortunate situation.

Based on what he says in the video, it's apparent it isn't a first lesson. It's very possible he has been slapping the back of her head before in past lessons and she told her parents, which is why there is this hidden camera set up to record this lesson. She appears to be 6-7 years old, which is a very formative time for children. This sort of thing could definitely could be scarring.

My wife says she wasn't scarred by her piano teacher and mother slapping the back of her head, but I don't know that one can even know for sure when you are scarred and when you are not, as by definition, you haven't experienced the other case (where your head wasn't being slapped), to be able to compare.


We are all mentally scarred by happenings in our childhood, unless we lived in a bubble. Children are much tougher that some people seem to think...or at least used to be...

Re: Inadequate piano teacher punches and abuses 8 years old girl [Re: outo] #2854278
05/31/19 02:22 PM
05/31/19 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by outo
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Terry Michael
The man has issues obviously. Those need to be dealt with. Hopefully the girl is not mentally scarred for life. It’s an unfortunate situation.

Based on what he says in the video, it's apparent it isn't a first lesson. It's very possible he has been slapping the back of her head before in past lessons and she told her parents, which is why there is this hidden camera set up to record this lesson. She appears to be 6-7 years old, which is a very formative time for children. This sort of thing could definitely could be scarring.

My wife says she wasn't scarred by her piano teacher and mother slapping the back of her head, but I don't know that one can even know for sure when you are scarred and when you are not, as by definition, you haven't experienced the other case (where your head wasn't being slapped), to be able to compare.


We are all mentally scarred by happenings in our childhood, unless we lived in a bubble. Children are much tougher that some people seem to think...or at least used to be...

I could write a book on how I was taught at school in my home country, but I think I'd better not. People here might have nightmares. I'll just say that I was lucky I carried no permanent physical scars.

But what I can safely say is that my four piano teachers - two while in my home country - were all sweetness and light. At least they were, once they realized that my inability to play anything on the piano that sounded like real music wasn't due to laziness...... wink


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Inadequate piano teacher punches and abuses 8 years old girl [Re: outo] #2854392
05/31/19 07:57 PM
05/31/19 07:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 184
West Australia
Lostinidlewonder Offline
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West Australia
Originally Posted by outo
Originally Posted by Lostinidlewonder
Originally Posted by outo
Originally Posted by Lostinidlewonder

Calling this guy a monster is not being a part of a lynch mob I would expect him to get all the shame the public has to offer him it might teach him something about how to treat children, but not lynch him. A child is an innocent, helpless being who should be protected and nurtured. Sure we did horrible things in the past but we live in the 21st century with different expectations that everyone understands (certainly teachers dealing with other families children!!). So even mentioning that in the past that teachers did this really is quite irrelevant to todays ethical standards it certainly won't help in a court case. Parents physically disciplining their child is different to a piano teacher doing it, nothing in a piano lesson should call for it.


I guess being aware of the kind of suffering children go through in the world every day just makes me put things into a different perspective...

This guy should not teach children, that we can agree on. But unless he did something more than just punch the girl while teaching, this will be a minor offence in any non extreme criminal system. Here no-one would go to jail for something like that. The fact that he is arrested says nothing, because if someone brings out child abuse the police has to investigate and Russia is not famous for civil rights or consistency of their justice system.

"The World Health Organization ([WHO], 2006, p. 9) defines child abuse and neglect as:

All forms of physical and/or emotional ill-treatment, sexual abuse, neglect or negligent treatment or commercial or other exploitation, resulting in actual or potential harm to the child’s health, survival, development or dignity in the context of a relationship of responsibility, trust or power."

Of course each country has different laws but according to the WHO this fellow has abused the child with physical and emotional ill treatment and if proven in court that the childs health was severely impacted it will not do his case well, his abuse of his power and trust as a teacher will be put under question. I would be worried if this is all swept under the carpet as he has a high propensity for reoffending given his profession, I would hope that Russia has some standards for child protection and disciplining those who abuse their power in their work dealing with children. In Australia we have a "working with children check" which we require to teach any child, any child abuse history this will effect our ability to get such a pass which I think is great to protect our young ones from people who have been caught out treating children poorly.



I don't really see the relevance of the WHO quote here...

It is to show the world standard of what it means to abuse a child and not allow a situation like this to be considered anything else, abuse is abuse. Do we know personally how much this particular child suffered from this? What else was done that wasn't shown in this instance or caught on camera? I think to take away from the situation and guess that it wasn't anything too serious is speaking in favor of the offender who should feel the full consquence of his actions.


Originally Posted by outo

When I said minor offence I was referring to the severity of the crime and what sort of punishment is expected in a reasonable justice system unless there's more that we did not see. It would not be a prison sentence but something else. No-one talked about swepping it under carpet. I could tell you quite a lot about the standards in Russia BTW, but this is not a place for political discussions.

Minor offence based on the small amount we saw in that video which doesn't tell us about the emotional suffering or physical suffering the child actually experienced and waht they are still suffering today. How can we tell how strong this exactly impacted the child, I think it is being insensitive to make judgement that it was miinor and we should ethically consider it child abuse full stop without guessing the severity of its impact on the poor child. I'm sure since you have some insight into the standards over there that the potential for this to be swept under the carpet could certainly be there though if such an offense is made public like this one would hope not and there should be public outrage if this teacher is allowed to freely work with children again without any repremand.

Originally Posted by outo

We too have working with children checks here... shown to be pretty ineffective as a means of protection, but keeps the public happier as do unreasonable sentences for crimes, no matter the costs to society. But as I said, we are not supposed to discuss politics...It should be enough to say that what we saw is not accepted for a piano teacher anymore.

It is ineffective against those who have not been officially charged with criminal offences that is logical. We all agree it is not accepted behavior but I would think that we should take a step further this being a teachers forum and unite against such actions and not minimise its seriousness by considering the severity of the case without actually knowing the full details which none of us know. In many countries such actions would not just be a slap on the wrist especially if such an offence occured when you are in the profession dealing with children, in this case we only have a small insight into one situation there is a very high chance that there are many more not only with this student but many others who should be encouraged to speak up against this child abuser.

Last edited by Lostinidlewonder; 05/31/19 08:07 PM.

"The biggest risk in life is to take no risk at all"
Re: Inadequate piano teacher punches and abuses 8 years old girl [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2854425
05/31/19 10:30 PM
05/31/19 10:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 540
Virginia
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Virginia
Tyrone, I was surprised that the school of music I attend does not do a background check on teachers. Also, if a private teacher is hired in the home, I would think the customer could request a background check. I work in health care, especially with the Federal Government, there is an extensive background check. Children are considered a vulnerable population and need to be protected. I would think if something happened at a school of music and the owner did not conduct back ground checks, the owner may be liable.


Deb
"A goal properly set is halfway reached." Zig Ziglar
Re: Inadequate piano teacher punches and abuses 8 years old girl [Re: Lostinidlewonder] #2854474
06/01/19 03:48 AM
06/01/19 03:48 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,415
Finland
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outo Offline
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Originally Posted by Lostinidlewonder

Originally Posted by outo

When I said minor offence I was referring to the severity of the crime and what sort of punishment is expected in a reasonable justice system unless there's more that we did not see. It would not be a prison sentence but something else. No-one talked about swepping it under carpet. I could tell you quite a lot about the standards in Russia BTW, but this is not a place for political discussions.

Minor offence based on the small amount we saw in that video which doesn't tell us about the emotional suffering or physical suffering the child actually experienced and waht they are still suffering today. How can we tell how strong this exactly impacted the child, I think it is being insensitive to make judgement that it was miinor and we should ethically consider it child abuse full stop without guessing the severity of its impact on the poor child.


You must understand that when I write about crimes I do not write as a layman but as a former student of criminology and sociology of law. So my concepts are neutral and do not reflect my personal values. You wrote about wishing for the guy to get treated badly in prison, which I do not think will happen and certainly do not accept. I do not believe in unreasonable or "extra" punishments for any crime. They do not deter crime or make the world any safer, in fact quite the opposite. The common trend in the world is that the harsher the punishments, the higher the crime rate in the country. BTW. with lynch mob I was referring to a virtual one...people on the internet wishing all sorts of bad things happening to anyone who made a mistake without knowing anything about the person.

Re: Inadequate piano teacher punches and abuses 8 years old girl [Re: outo] #2854497
06/01/19 07:28 AM
06/01/19 07:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 184
West Australia
Lostinidlewonder Offline
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West Australia
Originally Posted by outo
Originally Posted by Lostinidlewonder

Originally Posted by outo

When I said minor offence I was referring to the severity of the crime and what sort of punishment is expected in a reasonable justice system unless there's more that we did not see. It would not be a prison sentence but something else. No-one talked about swepping it under carpet. I could tell you quite a lot about the standards in Russia BTW, but this is not a place for political discussions.

Minor offence based on the small amount we saw in that video which doesn't tell us about the emotional suffering or physical suffering the child actually experienced and waht they are still suffering today. How can we tell how strong this exactly impacted the child, I think it is being insensitive to make judgement that it was miinor and we should ethically consider it child abuse full stop without guessing the severity of its impact on the poor child.

You wrote about wishing for the guy to get treated badly in prison, which I do not think will happen and certainly do not accept.

Well there is of course a difference between "think" and "know". We don't "know" whats going to happen in this case because we don't have all the information, my emotional response can be understood since being a teacher I feel that protection of children is extremely important and when I see a teacher abuse that trust I am quite offended as many other teachers also will be, if he happens to go to prison I hope what I initially wrote happens.

Originally Posted by outo

I do not believe in unreasonable or "extra" punishments for any crime. They do not deter crime or make the world any safer, in fact quite the opposite.

Again we don't know the actual details of this case only this small example in the video, I am sure there will be a history of abuse that this teacher has dished out to other young students. Certainly he needs to be repremanded not only to give this case justice but also to protect other children in the future which is very important. Punishment for child abuse should be severe and I am sure the majority of people would support such a thing, children are innocent and need our protection. You should visit places like Singapore which rule everyone with severe punishment, you get the cane if you vandalize property for instance and it is one of the safest and ordered places in the world.

Originally Posted by outo

BTW. with lynch mob I was referring to a virtual one...people on the internet wishing all sorts of bad things happening to anyone who made a mistake without knowing anything about the person.

I wish the full force of the law to slam this abusive teacher and would be glad if he never was able to teach children again, I am no fence sitter on this and don't feel that this teacher needs any sympathy or understanding, I have this bias stance being a teacher myself who will always stand up for children protection and have personally done so in the past in a few sad cases.

Last edited by Lostinidlewonder; 06/01/19 07:33 AM.

"The biggest risk in life is to take no risk at all"
Re: Inadequate piano teacher punches and abuses 8 years old girl [Re: PianoStartsAt33] #2854763
06/01/19 11:04 PM
06/01/19 11:04 PM
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Hawai'i Island
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And here I thought my piano teacher in first grade was a meanie. She used to hover with a ruler and smack my fingers if they lost the right curvature. But, that was nothing compared to this. This kid is probably scarred now and will hate piano forever. What a tragic shame.

Re: Inadequate piano teacher punches and abuses 8 years old girl [Re: BigIslandGuy] #2854847
06/02/19 08:32 AM
06/02/19 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by BigIslandGuy
And here I thought my piano teacher in first grade was a meanie. She used to hover with a ruler and smack my fingers if they lost the right curvature. But, that was nothing compared to this. This kid is probably scarred now and will hate piano forever. What a tragic shame.


That is really sick.
How long ago was that?

I am 30 and in my childhood such behavior would never have been tolerated.

My (longtime) teacher was not a very nice person either. But he probably would have lost his job immediatly if he had done such things.

Nevertheless, he did work with threats (like: "If you do not curve your fingers, you will only play scales from now on". totally oldschool.) and a lot of pressure. He used to compare us students openly and did something like rankings. Being one of his favorites was a curse and a blessing at the same time. It was a carrot and stick regime. Because you had to succeed, otherwise you would have dissapointed all of his (high) expectations. In that case, he did not have to make an effort to make you feel bad. His charisma did that for him without the need for words.

To be honest, I was a bit scared of him and never quite comfortable with his company. Lessons would have been much more fun, if only he could have been a little nicer.
As a kid, I naively thought that was because he was a man, and I envied anyone who had a female teacher.

But thanks to your reports, I now know what a fallacy this was crazy


Last edited by Pinkiepie; 06/02/19 08:36 AM.
Re: Inadequate piano teacher punches and abuses 8 years old girl [Re: PianoStartsAt33] #2855356
06/04/19 03:17 AM
06/04/19 03:17 AM
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Before opening this thread I assumed the story would have been about Asia, but if not then from Russia or elsewhere in Eastern Europe. It’s not surprising or uncommon.

Reading Amy Chua’s ‘Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother’ opened the west’s eyes to the extremes of Chinese parenting in the west, which is emotional abuse by western standards but not surprising if you’re from an Asian culture. Her daughters had to practice piano or violin two hours minimum daily, and couldn’t rest until mastering the lessons. They also had to score perfect marks in every subject at school (except drama and sport) on top of mastering music. In the end the younger daughter gave up the violin out of hatred at what it represented to her, despite having played at Carnegie Hall.

But when they travelled to Europe and took a single violin lesson under a renowned Russian teacher the daughter was brought to tears from the shock at the wacking and yelling she received, making the Tiger Parent seem relatively mild in comparison.

I also read a book on life of conscripts in the Russian army, ‘A Soldier’s War in Chechnya’. Absolutely shocking institutionalised physical abuse in every level of the army: you’re abused by your superior, your superior’s abused by his superior. Some desperate conscripts inhale broken glass to get a break in this hospital, but bullying and abuse of patients even in hospitals continues. In a country where such behaviour is institutionalised, is it a surprise there a videos like this?

Finally, if the teacher is from the Caucasus region of Russia, that’s a very rough place even by Russian standards. Many of the world’s best wrestlers and judoka come from there, but I shudder to think what kind of lessons and techniques are used to toughen them up to that standard.

Re: Inadequate piano teacher punches and abuses 8 years old girl [Re: Mariner] #2855365
06/04/19 04:51 AM
06/04/19 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Mariner
Before opening this thread I assumed the story would have been about Asia, but if not then from Russia or elsewhere in Eastern Europe. It’s not surprising or uncommon.

Reading Amy Chua’s ‘Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother’ opened the west’s eyes to the extremes of Chinese parenting in the west, which is emotional abuse by western standards but not surprising if you’re from an Asian culture. Her daughters had to practice piano or violin two hours minimum daily, and couldn’t rest until mastering the lessons. They also had to score perfect marks in every subject at school (except drama and sport) on top of mastering music. In the end the younger daughter gave up the violin out of hatred at what it represented to her, despite having played at Carnegie Hall.



That's a good example.
And what really shocks me: This mother sells her method as something good that other parents are supposed to imitate.
How blind can one be?

Her own children hate her for what she has done to them and she still does not get it....but tries to make money out of it.
If it were not so sad, it would be just ridiculous.


I am so sorry for those kids (now adults).

Last edited by Pinkiepie; 06/04/19 04:55 AM.
Re: Inadequate piano teacher punches and abuses 8 years old girl [Re: PianoStartsAt33] #2855372
06/04/19 06:09 AM
06/04/19 06:09 AM
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Do her children hate her? Asian kids rarely hate their parents no matter how harsh the parents were to them. I’ve lived in Asia and you’d think my coworker was scolding her daughter *every single day* over the phone for stealing then crashing the family car, when all the complaining was about not doing *more* study than the child already did. Perhaps because so many Asian parents are this way the kids don’t feel they’re in a strange situation, and view as all being done out of love. Amy Chua’s children were interviewed by a newspaper years later and they said they’re happy with their parents.

I picked up a few tips from her book, though I won’t be as extreme. Making daily study and music practice compulsory, even on overseas holidays, isn’t too much of an ask. She chose Suzuki violin lessons because you can plough through the lessons at a fast rate if you practice enough. She progressed very fast through the course as a result. Based on the book and some extra research I initially planned on Suzuki violin lessons for my son too, but my wife wanted piano.

Last edited by Mariner; 06/04/19 06:12 AM.
Re: Inadequate piano teacher punches and abuses 8 years old girl [Re: Mariner] #2855378
06/04/19 06:58 AM
06/04/19 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Mariner
Do her children hate her?


Well, I would... whistle

Quote
Amy Chua’s children were interviewed by a newspaper years later and they said they’re happy with their parents.



Because they should say so ...
As you just mentioned, they are conditioned (as part of their culture) to treat their parents with unquestioning respect and obedience. No matter what they did.
But I bet deep down they feel different ... and a childhood like this always leaves its mark. You do not even have to be aware of this, but you have been harmed.

Of course, if you have never experienced anything else, you will get used to almost everything and think this is normal.

But look at the Japanese...they are even more under pressure to perform. Hardly anyone questions that, or even breaks out. They would lose their face.

So the suicide rate is correspondingly high there.

Nothing I would wish my children ...


Quote
I picked up a few tips from her book, though I won’t be as extreme. Making daily study and music practice compulsory, even on overseas holidays, isn’t too much of an ask. She chose Suzuki violin lessons because you can plough through the lessons at a fast rate if you practice enough. She progressed very fast through the course as a result.


Is that so important to you, making your five year old progressing very fast?


Last edited by Pinkiepie; 06/04/19 07:05 AM.
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