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Casio CDP-S100, CDP-S150, CDP-S350
#2851365 05/23/19 06:42 AM
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The 2019 Privias have a thread of their own.

As the S100/S150/S350 finally launch in India this month, I thought these models could have their own thread.

* CDP-S100. List price: INR 35,995 | USD 399 | GBP 399
* CDP-S150. List price: INR 39,995
* CDP-S350. List price: INR 49,995 | USD 499 | GBP 529

They are being sold for about 20-25% off online in the US, which is a very nice price compared to what I might get here.

They come with the "Scaled Hammer Action II" key action which doesn't seem to have a history unlike the previous CDPs which borrowed their "Scaled Hammer Action" key action from older Privias.


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Re: Casio CDP-S100, CDP-S150, CDP-S350
kj85 #2851487 05/23/19 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by kj85
The 2019 Privias have a thread of their own.

As the S100/S150/S350 finally launch in India this month, I thought these models could have their own thread.

* CDP-S100. List price: INR 35,995 | USD 399 | GBP 399
* CDP-S150. List price: INR 39,995
* CDP-S350. List price: INR 49,995 | USD 499 | GBP 529

They are being sold for about 20-25% off online in the US, which is a very nice price compared to what I might get here.

They come with the "Scaled Hammer Action II" key action which doesn't seem to have a history unlike the previous CDPs which borrowed their "Scaled Hammer Action" key action from older Privias.

Scaled Hammer Action II has been out (at least in the US) for 7 years.


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Re: Casio CDP-S100, CDP-S150, CDP-S350
Tyrone Slothrop #2851493 05/23/19 12:24 PM
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Not the same thing. While each new action might be a modification of the previous generation, the sequence, as far as I can tell, is:

* Scaled Hammer Action
* Tri-Sensor Scaled Hammer Action
* Tri-Sensor Scaled Hammer Action II
* Scaled Hammer Action II (2019 CDP-S series)
* Smart Scaled Hammer Action (2019 PX-S series)

I don't see them taking "Tri-Sensor Scaled Hammer Action II" from the last gen Privia line and moving it to the current gen CDP line. That would effectively give me the PX-160 action for about $100 less. And I would gladly take it because I liked playing the Casio PX-560M.

Re: Casio CDP-S100, CDP-S150, CDP-S350
Tyrone Slothrop #2851672 05/24/19 05:36 AM
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I knew I had read something about the new actions in the PX-S thread. According to Mike Martin of Casio:

Quote
Let me try to make this all clear once and for all.

Both the PX-S and CDP-S keybeds feature a NEW scaled, weighted hammer action and keys with simulated ebony and ivory surfaces. The PX-S keybed also includes a patent-pending "smart scaling" feature that simulates the hammer and key behavior of each of the 88 keys individually.


Further:

Quote
In addition to the above some other differences.

BOTH are two sensor actions. While I don't expect you to take my word for it, these new instruments especially the PX-S series perform better in almost every respect than the tri-sensor action found in previous models. Trust me we had people meticulously comparing them throughout the NAMM show.

The PX-S series action has some additional features not included on the CDP-S. This includes High Resolution MIDI Velocity and Release velocity.


My understanding, then, is:
  • Casio developed a completely new scaled hammer action with weighted keys.
  • This action is used in the CDP-S series where it is called Scaled Hammer Action II.
  • For the PX-S series, "smart scaling" was added to the same action and this modified action became Smart Scaled Hammer Action

Re: Casio CDP-S100, CDP-S150, CDP-S350
kj85 #2854067 05/30/19 11:33 PM
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They feel similar but not exactly the same - I played both side by side. The PX-1000 action is also a lot quieter than the CDP-100.
What makes them similar though, they both suffer from the horribly short pivot point, which for me made it very hard to play towards the back of the black keys.

Re: Casio CDP-S100, CDP-S150, CDP-S350
PwYm #2854119 05/31/19 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by PwYm
They feel similar but not exactly the same - I played both side by side. The PX-1000 action is also a lot quieter than the CDP-100.


Like I mentioned in the PX-S thread, I am trying to determine if the differences in action is worth $300 if my primary use of the keyboard were as a midi controller. If the PX-S1000 offers more control than the CDP-S100 I could consider it. But if the differences in action is marginal at best... I'll have to think this over.

Originally Posted by PwYm
What makes them similar though, they both suffer from the horribly short pivot point, which for me made it very hard to play towards the back of the black keys.


I have heard a few people complaining about this. I normally play on the lower 2/3rds of the keyboard. If you have your thumb on black, I guess you could have serious problems depressing either the blacks or whites as the shape of the hand puts the rest of you fingers right at the top.

Re: Casio CDP-S100, CDP-S150, CDP-S350
kj85 #2854121 05/31/19 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by kj85

I have heard a few people complaining about this. I normally play on the lower 2/3rds of the keyboard. If you have your thumb on black, I guess you could have serious problems depressing either the blacks or whites as the shape of the hand puts the rest of you fingers right at the top.


I seem to be going for classical music that results in my thumb or my little finger on the black keys resulting in exactly this problem quite often. This is a real issue for me.

Last edited by KevinM; 05/31/19 05:14 AM.
Re: Casio CDP-S100, CDP-S150, CDP-S350
KevinM #2854133 05/31/19 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by KevinM
I seem to be going for classical music that results in my thumb or my little finger on the black keys resulting in exactly this problem quite often. This is a real issue for me.


I have been following your "key pivot length" thread where you originally mentioned the problem (link for those interested in it).

While I am not sure how much difference a seesaw-style action on a longer key would make compared to an action with simply a longer pivot, it is interesting that Kawai is probably the only one who is attempting something like it in the mid-range ($1500-5000). Their RM3II (RM3 Grand), GF Compact, GF and GFII actions are all seesaw-style actions with the pin positions comparable to the pivot position of the Roland PHA 50.

Once thing is certain. None of this is going to make an appearance in a sub-$1500 model any time soon.

|-----|

When the Kawai showroom reopens in my city next month, I might pay them a visit to check out how the CN37/ES8 and CA48 keybeds play.

Re: Casio CDP-S100, CDP-S150, CDP-S350
kj85 #2854137 05/31/19 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by kj85
While I am not sure how much difference a seesaw-style action on a longer key would make compared to an action with simply a longer pivot, it is interesting that Kawai is probably the only one who is attempting something like it in the mid-range ($1500-5000). Their RM3II (RM3 Grand), GF Compact, GF and GFII actions are all seesaw-style actions with the pin positions comparable to the pivot position of the Roland PHA 50.

I may be wrong, but my understanding is that there is nothing you can do to get around the problems caused by a short pivot length other than to make it longer. But some clever engineering design can deal with the pivot point being very close to the end of the key, instead of the key having a seesaw-style action with plenty of length either side of the pivot point.

I do feel the need to visit a showroom again to try out various pianos. I am going to try and delay satisfying this need as long as possible because I'm fairly certain that once I do that it will then be harder to deny myself thinking about getting an update, especially if I find a DP with an action I like.

Last edited by KevinM; 05/31/19 06:48 AM.
Re: Casio CDP-S100, CDP-S150, CDP-S350
KevinM #2854195 05/31/19 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by KevinM
But some clever engineering design can deal with the pivot point being very close to the end of the key, instead of the key having a seesaw-style action with plenty of length either side of the pivot point.


You can look at the GFII action
[Linked Image]

or this model from the Steinway website
[Linked Image]

and compare that to the RHIII
[Linked Image]

It looks like the entire action folded on itself around the pivot with additional mechanisms added to make the action seem "real."

So I guess that's how the illusion is created.

Originally Posted by KevinM
I do feel the need to visit a showroom again to try out various pianos. I am going to try and delay satisfying this need as long as possible because I'm fairly certain that once I do that it will then be harder to deny myself thinking about getting an update, especially if I find a DP with an action I like.


It depends on your motivation and your level of playing, I guess.

In my case, I was looking for a nice DP with a weighted keyboard and didn't know it was going to be this difficult to pick one. So I plan to pick up an entry level DP with an acceptable action that can serve as a midi controller till I feel I need something better and get a good deal on a DP with a GF-type action.

Re: Casio CDP-S100, CDP-S150, CDP-S350
kj85 #2854220 05/31/19 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by kj85
Originally Posted by KevinM
But some clever engineering design can deal with the pivot point being very close to the end of the key, instead of the key having a seesaw-style action with plenty of length either side of the pivot point.


You can look at the GFII action
[Linked Image]

or this model from the Steinway website
[Linked Image]

and compare that to the RHIII
[Linked Image]

It looks like the entire action folded on itself around the pivot with additional mechanisms added to make the action seem "real."

So I guess that's how the illusion is created.

Originally Posted by KevinM
I do feel the need to visit a showroom again to try out various pianos. I am going to try and delay satisfying this need as long as possible because I'm fairly certain that once I do that it will then be harder to deny myself thinking about getting an update, especially if I find a DP with an action I like.


It depends on your motivation and your level of playing, I guess.

In my case, I was looking for a nice DP with a weighted keyboard and didn't know it was going to be this difficult to pick one. So I plan to pick up an entry level DP with an acceptable action that can serve as a midi controller till I feel I need something better and get a good deal on a DP with a GF-type action.


CDP series doesn't worth buying. The action is clumsy.

Even PX-160. The problem is Casio advertises PX-150 and 160 as a 3-sensor design but unfortunately you cannot really trigger the keys as fast as I can do on my Kawai MP7SE. PX-160 is the bare minimum I'd say. I got my PX-150 refurbished for $200 refurbished.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: Casio CDP-S100, CDP-S150, CDP-S350
Abdol #2854234 05/31/19 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Abdol
CDP series doesn't worth buying. The action is clumsy.

CDP-S models have an action that is mechanically very similar (and perhaps identical) to the PX-S models. (It is unclear as to whether the "smart" enhancement of the latter is strictly software, or if there is a mechanical component as well.) he difference is not as substantial as the difference between the previous PX models and their CDP contemporaries.

Originally Posted by Abdol
Even PX-160. The problem is Casio advertises PX-150 and 160 as a 3-sensor design but unfortunately you cannot really trigger the keys as fast as I can do on my Kawai MP7SE.

It's true that not all 3-sensor designs behave the same. But any 3-sensor board will let you repeat a note without silencing it first (without having to have the pedal depressed to do it). And they should make it easier to repeat/trill notes softly by being able to trigger them from lower in their travel, though some 2-sensor boards can also do this better than most because of the relatively low placement of the top sensor (Korg RH3), and some 3-sensor boards may not do it as well.

Re: Casio CDP-S100, CDP-S150, CDP-S350
Abdol #2854236 05/31/19 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Abdol
CDP series doesn't worth buying. The action is clumsy.

Even PX-160. The problem is Casio advertises PX-150 and 160 as a 3-sensor design but unfortunately you cannot really trigger the keys as fast as I can do on my Kawai MP7SE. PX-160 is the bare minimum I'd say. I got my PX-150 refurbished for $200 refurbished.


Are you referring to the 2019 models or the previous versions (CDP-135/235, PX-150/160)? Because, other than complaints about it being difficult to play near the fallboard, the new action is considered to be good for its price range.

Here's a video of Jeremy See showing single key repetition speed on the PX-S1000 (around 02:40).



The CDP-S models have a similar action, but there is some differences. The PX-S series specifically talks about "Key Off Response" that allows for fast note repetition.

Re: Casio CDP-S100, CDP-S150, CDP-S350
kj85 #2854239 05/31/19 12:04 PM
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Much as I've been grumbling about the action as your fingers get near the fallboard, I quite like the action otherwise and find it far superior to the Yamaha action for pianos in a similar price range and higher.

Re: Casio CDP-S100, CDP-S150, CDP-S350
anotherscott #2854241 05/31/19 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott

CDP-S models have an action that is mechanically very similar (and perhaps identical) to the PX-S models. (It is unclear as to whether the "smart" enhancement of the latter is strictly software, or if there is a mechanical component as well.) he difference is not as substantial as the difference between the previous PX models and their CDP contemporaries.


I followed your comments in the PX-S threads here as well as on The Keyboard Corner.

I wonder if one reason for the lack of clarity about the exact nature of the smartness is the possibility of cannibalization of sales of the PX-S series if someone like me chooses the CDP-S100 instead of the PX-S1000 for use as a midi controller, or even as a regular DP?

Re: Casio CDP-S100, CDP-S150, CDP-S350
KevinM #2854246 05/31/19 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by KevinM
I quite like the action otherwise and find it far superior to the Yamaha action for pianos in a similar price range and higher.


As far as the action is concerned, I agree.

Also, I find that Casio and Yamaha offer a good entry level experience at reasonable prices. Competitive Roland and Kawai models are priced slightly higher, and, if I remember correctly, you can't even connect the Kawai ES110 to a computer without getting one of those midi-to-usb thingies. Same thing with the Korg D1.

Re: Casio CDP-S100, CDP-S150, CDP-S350
kj85 #2854261 05/31/19 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by kj85
if I remember correctly, you can't even connect the Kawai ES110 to a computer without getting one of those midi-to-usb thingies. Same thing with the Korg D1.

ES110 and D1 have real, 5-pin DIN MIDI jacks. Unlike the boards that only have USB, you can directly connect them to any other MIDI device. The connections are also physically more rugged than USB, and don't have USB's susceptibility to noise in some setups. it's a major advantage for any pro user. And if you need USB to attach to a computer, the adapters are cheap and widely available.

Re: Casio CDP-S100, CDP-S150, CDP-S350
KevinM #2854283 05/31/19 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by KevinM
I may be wrong, but my understanding is that there is nothing you can do to get around the problems caused by a short pivot length other than to make it longer.


Curve your fingers.

...and they'll be further away from the (imaginary) fallboard.

wink

Re: Casio CDP-S100, CDP-S150, CDP-S350
anotherscott #2854292 05/31/19 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
The connections are also physically more rugged than USB, and don't have USB's susceptibility to noise in some setups. it's a major advantage for any pro user. And if you need USB to attach to a computer, the adapters are cheap and widely available.


The decision makes sense for the D1, I suppose. After all they dropped the speakers as well.

But, the ES110 is such a common entry-level recommendation alongside the P125, FP-30 and, occasionally, the PX-160 (all of them with built-in speakers) that I automatically assumed it would come with the user-friendly USB-to-host.

Re: Casio CDP-S100, CDP-S150, CDP-S350
kj85 #2854965 06/02/19 03:34 PM
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As a controller the CDP-S100 would be far sufficient. No need to blow money on higher models. As a controller the CDP-S100 is better than similar priced 88 controllers form M-audio.


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