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Re: How does size of upright affect its loudness?
Lady Bird #2852878 05/27/19 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
I found the contrast between treble and bass is greater in
the U3 to the U1.
Sauter130 the treble and the bass are very well balanced .The same
with a 122 Sauter which I tried in Paris.
That is what is nice about these pianos.Also the high to even
very high treble notes last much longer after the note has been
depressed (even without the sustaining pedal) than the Japanese pianos.All of this I found to be the same with the Bechstein K8 and the slightly shorter Bechstein (122)
The bass is perhaps somewhat stronger in the U3 than the treble
Is .This is based on my experience in trying a number of different brands before I bought my piano.
Yes I am very able to play very softly on my piano.


Would love to try a Sauter but don’t think there’s a dealer near the greater Toronto area?


Kawai K-500
Casio PX-735 (in retirement)
Re: How does size of upright affect its loudness?
WeakLeftHand #2852880 05/27/19 07:37 PM
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Well, I've heard and played a couple of old console upright pianos that squealed pretty loud when played hard. smile

I also think that the laws of physics dictate that a larger piano with a larger soundboard can be produce more sound/volume as well. I also think there is a balance point between the loudness of big pianos and small pianos where bigger is not always louder, per-se, and smaller is not always softer, per-se; that balance-point usually has a lot to do with the quality of the piano in question and the hardness of the hammers.

Since acoustic piano have no volume control knob, there is no way to know for sure whether a certain piano will be too loud in a smaller room until you actually try it. There have been many posts here where a piano owner stated that their piano was too loud for the room. It (the loudness of a piano) can vary, depending on the piano.

Personally, I like loud, within reason. smile

So, "How does size of upright affect its loudness?" It depends on the piano, the room and the person playing the piano. smile

All the best!

Rick

Last edited by Rickster; 05/27/19 07:43 PM.

Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: How does size of upright affect its loudness?
WeakLeftHand #2852881 05/27/19 07:40 PM
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I had a new U1 in my piano room which I traded in full value towards
the Sauter 130.So I am able to compare these two in the same
room.I also had a Kawai grand (just less I think than 6 ft)This piano
had lost a great deal of the brilliance in the upper treble.
Because this thread is also about dynamic control I am talking
about loud and soft.

Re: How does size of upright affect its loudness?
U3piano #2852886 05/27/19 07:46 PM
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how
Originally Posted by U3piano
Originally Posted by Lady Bird

When I was looking at pianos there was this U3 which was really
very nice.I do not know if it was the sunshine after winter,but the
tone was really lovely.A few days later though that piano was sold.


That's such a sad story! frown

I love the tone of a good U3. I have read many times they tend to be bright and everything, and Yamaha is such a standard brand name in the world of piano's that it almost feels like you should buy something else. But i went to a piano dealer a few weeks ago, just to play some different piano's. And i came to the conclusion that nothing in the same priceclass i played there sounded as good or better than my own U3. It was a good drive home. cool

There was a very nice boston upright, but it was 3 times the price of my U3.

Here's also a very nice sounding U3



How much should i expect to pay for a good sounding u3 , like yours? ( used or new?)


Yamaha P155, Yamaha P515
Re: How does size of upright affect its loudness?
WeakLeftHand #2852916 05/27/19 09:20 PM
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I don't think size is everything. Sometimes it's the tone that contribute to the perceived loudness.

I didn't notice much difference in volume when comparing U1 and U3 in the same showroom. Possibly it was from the way they were voiced.
It seems most pianos around my place are voiced to be bright and projecting (signature Yamaha tone?), so that they can be heard better in noisy showroom.

Then I found a U3 that can be played more softly and more mellow than other U3s but still retain power when go for forte. The technician said he voiced it down for a teacher who was brining a student over to choose/buy. (They didn't pick it though).

I don't think 52" would be too loud for a normal sized living room. They are things you could do to dampen the volume to a degree.
But annoying tone could be an issue. If you or people around you hate the tone, no matter how loud, it is a potential problem.

Re: How does size of upright affect its loudness?
WeakLeftHand #2852927 05/27/19 10:01 PM
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When I say German uprights I would say most people here
would know which ones I mean.
I should not compaire certain upright's to grand pianos I agree
they are 2 very different types of pianos and not really comparable
So I am sorry if I offended anyone.
All the instruments mentioned here are all very good instruments
but I think we all know that.
There are ways to make the sound softer with a piano where one could annoy neighbours.A carpet ,an accoustic board or blanket behind an upright,furniture ,drapes and perhaps voicing a piano more mellow because a brighter sound seems to carry more.
The U1 and the U3 are very expressive instruments and my old U1
lasted for many years as did my old grand piano.

Re: How does size of upright affect its loudness?
WeakLeftHand #2852951 05/28/19 12:29 AM
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U3piano,
I enjoyed listening to your piano.,Yes it sounds as though
you got a good one!
Is that you playing ?

Re: How does size of upright affect its loudness?
WeakLeftHand #2852955 05/28/19 12:59 AM
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Before doing too much, I'd get a good technician to regulate and voice the piano - make sure they're aware of what you are wanting.

With upright pianos, the regulation is often ignored, as is voicing, but it is possible and can make a significant difference - as well as to your enjoyment.

But - size doesn't equate to "noise". My 7'4" Grotrian can be played softer than my 6' Schimmel ever could - or my YAMAHA UX (U3 size). [It can also play louder, but that is another matter!!]


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: How does size of upright affect its loudness?
Lady Bird #2852962 05/28/19 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
U3piano,
I enjoyed listening to your piano.,Yes it sounds as though
you got a good one!
Is that you playing ?


That's not my U3, and i wish i could play that song that well! It's just a video i found on youtube that i liked. I posted it to show people how good U3's can sound. Here's another one, with better sound quality, also a lovely sounding U3:



Ill record mine when i figure out how to properly do so. I would love to try a bigger sauter, i think i played a small one at a dealer once, but i don't remember to well.

Originally Posted by Jitin

How much should i expect to pay for a good sounding u3 , like yours? ( used or new?)


Again, that's not my piano in the video, but i think you should be able to get a good U3 from the 80's in the 3000-4000 (eur) range. A younger one would cost more, new they are above 10.000 i believe. But if you get it checked by a technician, an older one is fine.

Re: How does size of upright affect its loudness?
WeakLeftHand #2852994 05/28/19 04:11 AM
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It's best not to take too much notice of a recording of a piano. If they're done to help them sell it - you have no idea what recording equipment has been used, and how much editing occurred before posting. Nor do we know what the environment it was in - a padded cell or a very active resonant hall. A mellow recording could have been quite strident at the point of recording and "adjusted" to suit.

There was a thread recently of a Blüthner Concert Grand with Benjamin Grosvener playing - which, I think turned out to be a Steinway recording, but with the Bluthner as the filmed piano.

Read all about it here http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...amin-grosvenor-bl-thner.html#Post2848149 - I never read to the end, as it went off on a YAMAHA tangent and I ran out of time.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: How does size of upright affect its loudness?
WeakLeftHand #2853091 05/28/19 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
Is it true that the taller the upright, the louder it will be? So, a 52" will be louder than a 48", from the same maker and same line?


No. Voicing -- the hardness of the hammers -- has a much greater effect on loudness than mere size. I've played a little Sherman Clay console that's much louder than my concert grand.

What is true is that a larger piano can be played louder before reaching the point where it starts to distort.


-- J.S.

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Re: How does size of upright affect its loudness?
backto_study_piano #2853230 05/28/19 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by backto_study_piano
Before doing too much, I'd get a good technician to regulate and voice the piano - make sure they're aware of what you are wanting.

With upright pianos, the regulation is often ignored, as is voicing, but it is possible and can make a significant difference - as well as to your enjoyment.

But - size doesn't equate to "noise". My 7'4" Grotrian can be played softer than my 6' Schimmel ever could - or my YAMAHA UX (U3 size). [It can also play louder, but that is another matter!!]

I think noise is one thing, the ability of both pianist and a good 130
sized piano to produce a good FF tone which full and round is quite
easy.A hard sounding FF tone (or louder)is unpleasant ! A good upright can also easily play very softly if it is well regulated.
I feel I am able to play PPP on my piano in a Chopin Nocturne
(Op 9no1 in b flat minor )Of course it is difficult to accurately
measure dynamics.Performance grade pianos are able to do this
but on a U3 you can get a good dynamic range as well.
Again I am not comparing this to a grand piano .

Re: How does size of upright affect its loudness?
WeakLeftHand #2853306 05/28/19 09:07 PM
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I bought a 1981 U3... U3H... last year as I got into my second year of piano lessons. Originally I too thought that a full sized upright would be too loud and booming for my modest sized lounge room, but this particular U3 had a more mellow and pleasing sound than the U1 and other ( secondhand) pianos I tried. It had been fitted with a new set of hammers... not sure how relevant that is. So what I learned from that is just to try them out....

Re: How does size of upright affect its loudness?
WeakLeftHand #2853335 05/28/19 11:05 PM
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Perhaps a Kawai upright would suit the op more since
it is said to be darker and more mellow in tone?

Re: How does size of upright affect its loudness?
Lady Bird #2853343 05/28/19 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Perhaps a Kawai upright would suit the op more since
it is said to be darker and more mellow in tone?


Maybe...a Kawai K300 or 500 is also in consideration. I just used the U3 as an example, because everyone is familiar with it. It’s not the only model that I’m considering, although they’re probably in the price range I’m aiming for, as a first piano. Younger used, or new, I’m still open to either option at the moment. I just started my research recently. I suspect it will take me a few months to decide.

I’m also wanting to get something that will be easy to sell, should things go sideways with my neighbours.


Kawai K-500
Casio PX-735 (in retirement)
Re: How does size of upright affect its loudness?
Bett #2853488 05/29/19 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Bett
It had been fitted with a new set of hammers... not sure how relevant that is. ...


Very relevant. Of the factors that affect the loudness of a piano, voicing of the hammers is the largest.


-- J.S.

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