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Need help with my new sw/hw set up #2852392
05/26/19 01:52 PM
05/26/19 01:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,930
Tyrone Slothrop Online content OP
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content OP


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,930
I need some help with my new SW/HW set up. I am trying to set up my new piano and have some requirements but I am screwing up the setup. I keep feeling there is a software solution, but I might need to make a hardware change.

First, this is the piano and how it looks now:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

I have the following components:
  • Avantgrand N1X
  • Mini-PC running Windows 10 Pro
  • Focusrite Scarlett 2i2
  • 4-channel audio mixer
  • Rode NT1A mic that requires 48V phantom power
  • headphone amp
  • 300Ω headphones
  • external speakers
  • metronome with a human voice (which I prefer to the metronome in the N1X)
  • 3 webcams all with built-in mics


I have the following requirements:
  • I typically play my piano at 2-4am so I can't have any sound not be able to go through my headphones, including the metronome
  • I take piano lessons by Zoom.us video messenger, so I need my mic to feed my voice to the PC, but the mic needs 48V phantom power
  • For my piano lessons, all my webcams feed my PC (but this is straightforward).
  • I really don't want voice or other non-piano sounds to feed back to me through my piano's audio system


So I tried the following set up:

[Linked Image]

With this set up, I hear my piano doubled or tripled. Turning off MIDI Local Control on the piano doesn't affect this at all, which is strange.

The problem is the connection between the Focusrite and the mini-PC. If I disconnect these, then it appears to me to work, however everything audio comes out through the piano, including human speech, or sounds from the programs I am running (for example, Piano Marvel). But I only want my particular piano to go out through the piano. I really would like everything else to pass through the Focusrite.

Does anyone have any suggestions about what I can do differently? Hopefully with minimum changes? (It took hours to get this set up yesterday, as I was cable tying everything for neatness.)


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Re: Need help with my new sw/hw set up [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2852404
05/26/19 02:10 PM
05/26/19 02:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 550
UK
thickfingers Offline
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There is a solution to it all...replace that lot with a good DP.
Say...a Roland FP30.

Re: Need help with my new sw/hw set up [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2852418
05/26/19 02:42 PM
05/26/19 02:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 524
The Sierras
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David B Online content
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Are you selecting the Focusrite or the N1X as the audio interface?


Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-38 Completed
Re: Need help with my new sw/hw set up [Re: David B] #2852424
05/26/19 02:56 PM
05/26/19 02:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,930
Tyrone Slothrop Online content OP
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content OP


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,930
Originally Posted by David B
Are you selecting the Focusrite or the N1X as the audio interface?

I selected the N1X's "Steinberg" interface as the one for Pianoteq. I've been looking in Windows 10 to see how to select the Focusrite audio interface for everything else. Haven't found an apparent way yet.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Need help with my new sw/hw set up [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2852436
05/26/19 03:57 PM
05/26/19 03:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 524
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David B Online content
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The Sierras
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by David B
Are you selecting the Focusrite or the N1X as the audio interface?

I selected the N1X's "Steinberg" interface as the one for Pianoteq. I've been looking in Windows 10 to see how to select the Focusrite audio interface for everything else. Haven't found an apparent way yet.


I'm not even sure what the Steinberg interface is. How can you select that if you're not running through a Steinberg box?


Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-38 Completed
Re: Need help with my new sw/hw set up [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2852437
05/26/19 04:02 PM
05/26/19 04:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,842
Boynton Beach, FL
Morodiene Offline
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Hmm, it does seem overly complicated. Is there a reason to have the N1X hooked up to the pc at all?


private piano/voice teacher FT

[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Re: Need help with my new sw/hw set up [Re: Morodiene] #2852444
05/26/19 04:22 PM
05/26/19 04:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 524
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
Hmm, it does seem overly complicated. Is there a reason to have the N1X hooked up to the pc at all?


I think he wants to control pianoteq with it.


Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-38 Completed
Re: Need help with my new sw/hw set up [Re: Morodiene] #2852445
05/26/19 04:23 PM
05/26/19 04:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,930
Tyrone Slothrop Online content OP
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content OP


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,930
Originally Posted by David B
I'm not even sure what the Steinberg interface is. How can you select that if you're not running through a Steinberg box?

Apparently, the Yamaha Avantgrand interface is the Steinberg interface. I assume Yamaha made some sort of deal with Steinberg, the way that Kawai made a deal with Onkyo.

Originally Posted by Morodiene
Hmm, it does seem overly complicated. Is there a reason to have the N1X hooked up to the pc at all?

Not for my lessons, but for non-lesson time because I have a bunch of piano apps (including Pianoteq) that I paid for and would like to use some time with my new piano. Besides it all worked with my rather underpowered FP30, so I figure there must be some way of making it work with the much more high-powered N1X. I just have to figure it out.

I did disconnected the N1X from "the Hydra," and it did work. So now I'm just trying to make it all work in a final configuration that I can leave forever.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Need help with my new sw/hw set up [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2852447
05/26/19 04:25 PM
05/26/19 04:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 230
PA
puremusic Offline
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puremusic  Offline
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That's quite a setup you have there. I'm not at the point where I am going to break out the webcams but maybe in a few years. How do you have those set up, do they all somehow send different angles of view to your tutor of your playing at once?

I'm still trying to identify half the stuff you have there! What's that behind the speakers up top, and behind the mini mixer?


Roland FP-90 - Touchkeys - TEC BC - MIDI Expression
Kontakt - Arturia Piano V - Sonivox Eighty-Eight - Spitfire Symphony Orchestra

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Re: Need help with my new sw/hw set up [Re: puremusic] #2852451
05/26/19 04:38 PM
05/26/19 04:38 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,930
Tyrone Slothrop Online content OP
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content OP


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,930
Originally Posted by puremusic
That's quite a setup you have there. I'm not at the point where I am going to break out the webcams but maybe in a few years. How do you have those set up, do they all somehow send different angles of view to your tutor of your playing at once?

We only use one view so I could use and plug in just one. But the webcams are not the issue since each one just takes up one USB socket on a USB hub. No biggie.

Originally Posted by puremusic
I'm still trying to identify half the stuff you have there! What's that behind the speakers up top,

Those aren't my external speakers actually. My actual external speakers are out of view of these pics. Instead, on that top shelf is just where I put my Alexa and Google Home, which are really unrelated to piano.

Behind Alexa/Google on the top shelf is a Belkin 12-outlet surge-suppressor for all the equipment on those shelves and also the lighting above.

To the right of the beige Google Home is a tube amp for my Sennheiser HD800 headphones. I use it because not only are the HD800 300Ω, but they also have relatively low sensitivity, so I needed a bit more gain than the N1X produces (BTW, I turned the N1X all the way to maximum volume, and it seems there is a bit of clipping on my HD800s - anyone else notice this occurring with their headphones?)

Quote
and behind the mini mixer?

Behind the red Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 on the middle shelf is nothing.

But behind the Behringer 4-channel audio mixer on the bottom shelf is my mini-PC and an external optical drive. The mini-PC runs Windows 10 Pro and all my piano apps including Pianoteq. It has a 2TB internal HDD.

Before this new N1X, when I had the FP30 here in this nook, I just left the mini-PC and Pianoteq running all the time so I could just walk over, sit down and start playing, like you can with an acoustic. Not sure what I will do now since with the N1X, I guess there will be a paradigm shift for me.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Need help with my new sw/hw set up [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2852453
05/26/19 04:44 PM
05/26/19 04:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 524
The Sierras
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David B Online content
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Apparently, the Yamaha Avantgrand interface is the Steinberg interface. I assume Yamaha made some sort of deal with Steinberg, the way that Kawai made a deal with Onkyo.


One thing I like about Macs is the plug and play ability. There is no additional software needed. My Mac shows AvantGrand as an audio option. Once I select it my Mac automatically uses it whenever both devices are on.

I'm sorry I can't offer much help, but I think through experimenting you'll be able to get it working the way you want.

If I were in your apartment, I would start isolating each component in the chain until I could figure out where the problem was. Start as square one and work systematically through it making sure everything is compatible along the way.

God Bless,
David


Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-38 Completed
Re: Need help with my new sw/hw set up [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2852483
05/26/19 06:07 PM
05/26/19 06:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 104
India
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kj85 Offline
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India
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Apparently, the Yamaha Avantgrand interface is the Steinberg interface. I assume Yamaha made some sort of deal with Steinberg, the way that Kawai made a deal with Onkyo.


Yamaha acquired Steinberg a long time back. I have had to deal with "Yamaha Steinberg" USB drivers when connecting Yamaha keyboards to the PC since forever.

Re: Need help with my new sw/hw set up [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2852487
05/26/19 06:15 PM
05/26/19 06:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 8,409
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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Is that a USB connection between the piano and the PC?
If so, does it carry only midi data? Or does it also carry digital audio?

Re: Need help with my new sw/hw set up [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2852491
05/26/19 06:21 PM
05/26/19 06:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 365
Cheshire, UK
Cheshire Chris Offline
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Cheshire Chris  Offline
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Cheshire, UK
Good point. The USB connection on Yamaha pianos carries both MIDI and digital audio.


Chris

Yamaha P-515, Yamaha Reface CP.
Re: Need help with my new sw/hw set up [Re: MacMacMac] #2852492
05/26/19 06:23 PM
05/26/19 06:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,930
Tyrone Slothrop Online content OP
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content OP


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,930
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Is that a USB connection between the piano and the PC?
If so, does it carry only midi data? Or does it also carry digital audio?

It is supposed to be able to carry both MIDI and audio streams (I assume digital audio, that is). Between the two green double headed arrows, I assume that is where I'm getting multiple repeating piano sounds. But if I cut one off, all sound goes through the piano. If I cut the other off, then my piano sounds go to the external speakers/headphones only, not through the piano. Quite a quandary. I'm sure there must be a "software" or "software configuration" way of doing this, but it's not come to me yet.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Need help with my new sw/hw set up [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2852496
05/26/19 06:32 PM
05/26/19 06:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 365
Cheshire, UK
Cheshire Chris Offline
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If you turn “local control” off on your piano, that will stop it from making any noise itself. It’ll then act just as a MIDI controller for Pianoteq.


Chris

Yamaha P-515, Yamaha Reface CP.
Re: Need help with my new sw/hw set up [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2852504
05/26/19 07:15 PM
05/26/19 07:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 14
California
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AdagioLearner Offline
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Congratulations on the new setup. It does strike me as overly complicated. I can’t guide you much because I run my software on a MacBook Pro, but I think I have a relatively simplified schematic in comparison. My keys to success were to 1) Use the Audio/Midi connection direct to my laptop so I don’t need to use an Audio Interface or hw mixer. 2) Use Loopback 2 to configure two virtual audio devices - Logic In (allows me to assign the keyboard and the mic to different channels in two tracks in my DAW and apply VSTs) and Logic Out (allows me to send audio to streaming services). I’ll try to post my rough schematic here in case it helps you to see parallels in your Windows environment. Your setup could be even simpler than mine because my stage piano requires external monitors, although when streaming I use headphones only because I don’t want the mic to pick up sound from the monitors. Good luck. You’ve gotten a lot better advice already and I”m sure your setup will suddenly come together soon.

[Linked Image]

Re: Need help with my new sw/hw set up [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2852590
05/27/19 03:42 AM
05/27/19 03:42 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 8,409
Raleigh, North Carolina
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@AdagioLearner: You don't seem to need an audio interface. Tyrone almost surely does. He needs it for better audio with lower latency. And he needs phantom power for the mic.
You don't seem to need a headphone amp. Tyrone is using one ... perhaps out of necessity?
Tyrone is using an outboard mixer. Perhaps he finds it easier to use than a software mixer. Twisting a knob is so much easier than mousing on screen.

All of that makes his rig a bit more complex. But I don't see any unnecessary items there.

Re: Need help with my new sw/hw set up [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2852645
05/27/19 09:10 AM
05/27/19 09:10 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,842
Boynton Beach, FL
Morodiene Offline
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@AdagioLearner: Im really interested in how you are streaming to Discord (sorry Tyrone for the OT). I was trying to do that as well, but the only advice I got was for PC and I’m on a mac. I do have Logic. Do you stream audio from your Roland, or do you use a VST? I can do audio via an interface, but I’d like to be able to route the output of the VST to Discord.


private piano/voice teacher FT

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Re: Need help with my new sw/hw set up [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2852678
05/27/19 10:18 AM
05/27/19 10:18 AM
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Pete14 Online content
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Tyrone, do you really need all that extra stuff on the wall?
David’s setup is not as convoluted, and he seems to be getting by just fine. smile

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