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Kawai CA 78 user - observation and issues
#2852377 05/26/19 12:47 PM
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. I have been using kawai CA78 for some time now. have been able to spend very less time due to busy schedule however here are some of my observation. not sure if these are standard things with kawai or issue with the one I have.

1. the entire key-bed looks a little bit tilted downward. . I have tried moving the piano to some other place but the result is same . when using a clinometer the top of piano ( music stand area) is levelled properly. while the key-bed is inclined downward.
2. when playing bass notes on higher volume the music rest vibrates and creates noise. no issue when music rest is closed . checked the screw etc.. of music rest and it seems to be tight
3. sometimes while playing sustain notes some of the notes sound are cut. bit like out of polyphony scenario.

anyone observed the same ?


Kawai CA78, Korg Kronos, Yamaha YDP164, Korg PA700, Roland XPS10, Korg Wave drum.

Re: Kawai CA 78 user - observation and issues
vikas khandelwal #2852386 05/26/19 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by vkhandelwal
1. the entire key-bed looks a little bit tilted downward. . I have tried moving the piano to some other place but the result is same . when using a clinometer the top of piano ( music stand area) is levelled properly. while the key-bed is inclined downward.

Look:
[Linked Image]

Re: Kawai CA 78 user - observation and issues
vikas khandelwal #2852464 05/26/19 05:13 PM
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The keybdd should be level. But you cannot see the keybed unless you remove some of the keys. Have you done so?

Re: Kawai CA 78 user - observation and issues
vikas khandelwal #2852470 05/26/19 05:35 PM
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Hmmm . . .sometimes on digitals the keyboard is inclined slightly downwards, towards the fall. I rather think it looks funky . . .anmd, of course, with any acoustic, there'd be woodwork vibrations and stuff. You got lucky there, imo . . .


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: Kawai CA 78 user - observation and issues
vikas khandelwal #2852477 05/26/19 05:48 PM
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I would expect the keybed to be level, as I expect they would be on a piano (haven't seen one for years, much less played one). Why then, are they slanted backwards on my Roland? I mean, what's the advantage? Seems mental. I'm sure there must be a reason...just can't put my finger(!) on it.

EDIT--wait a minute...mine's a stage piano, I suppose. Is it to make them easier to play standing up!?

Last edited by thickfingers; 05/26/19 05:57 PM.
Re: Kawai CA 78 user - observation and issues
vikas khandelwal #2852485 05/26/19 06:08 PM
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Because if it is, then I'm learning technique all wrong, and I'd better jack the back of my FP30 up... mad

Re: Kawai CA 78 user - observation and issues
vikas khandelwal #2852514 05/26/19 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by vkhandelwal
1. the entire key-bed looks a little bit tilted downward.


Yes, this is perfectly normal.

Please take a look at this image of the GFII action sample (the "closest" key is pushed down, the white key behind is in the neutral position):

[Linked Image]

Originally Posted by vkhandelwal
2. when playing bass notes on higher volume the music rest vibrates and creates noise. no issue when music rest is closed . checked the screw etc.. of music rest and it seems to be tight


It's possible that another object in the same room as your piano is vibrating, or possibly even a part inside the instrument itself. Does the same issue occur when moving the piano to a different area of the room? Have you raised this topic with your Kawai dealer?

Originally Posted by vkhandelwal
3. sometimes while playing sustain notes some of the notes sound are cut. bit like out of polyphony scenario.


Can you provide some examples, please?
(MIDI or audio recordings)

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Kawai CA 78 user - observation and issues
Kawai James #2852614 05/27/19 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by vkhandelwal
1. the entire key-bed looks a little bit tilted downward.


Yes, this is perfectly normal.

Please take a look at this image of the GFII action sample (the "closest" key is pushed down, the white key behind is in the neutral position):

[Linked Image]

Originally Posted by vkhandelwal
2. when playing bass notes on higher volume the music rest vibrates and creates noise. no issue when music rest is closed . checked the screw etc.. of music rest and it seems to be tight


It's possible that another object in the same room as your piano is vibrating, or possibly even a part inside the instrument itself. Does the same issue occur when moving the piano to a different area of the room? Have you raised this topic with your Kawai dealer?

Originally Posted by vkhandelwal
3. sometimes while playing sustain notes some of the notes sound are cut. bit like out of polyphony scenario.


Can you provide some examples, please?
(MIDI or audio recordings)

Kind regards,
James
x


Thanks for the first point.. I can relax now smile
For the second point. the music rest is vibrating itself. when i hold music rest the vibrating sound goes away. will raise this issue with my dealer
for the third one. I will try to record the phenomenon and share.

Also any app for CA78/98 in making ? using an ipad screen rather than the integrated one will be much better.


Kawai CA78, Korg Kronos, Yamaha YDP164, Korg PA700, Roland XPS10, Korg Wave drum.

Re: Kawai CA 78 user - observation and issues
vikas khandelwal #2852890 05/27/19 07:53 PM
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Hello vkhandelwal, thank you for your reply, I'm happy to help.

Yes, I would definitely raise the vibration topic with your dealer.
Regarding an app for the CA98/CA78, there is currently no officially supported app, however some users have reported various levels of success using the existing Virtual Technician and Sound Museum apps with the instrument set to "Sound mode".

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Kawai CA 78 user - observation and issues
Kawai James #2861935 06/23/19 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Hello vkhandelwal, thank you for your reply, I'm happy to help.

Yes, I would definitely raise the vibration topic with your dealer.
Regarding an app for the CA98/CA78, there is currently no officially supported app, however some users have reported various levels of success using the existing Virtual Technician and Sound Museum apps with the instrument set to "Sound mode".

Kind regards,
James
x

James,
Please see shared videos from https://www.dropbox.com/l/scl/AACvkeBvoaGO-ca2DNF1LL20ml2e57a06cY
first one shows the sound cut phenomenon which I observe frequently. I was able to replicate that changing the mode from pianist to sound while playing.. I observe similar sound cut sometime while playing

second one has the buzz sound from the music rest. I have shared with dealer but still to receive any resolution.

regards,
Vikas


Kawai CA78, Korg Kronos, Yamaha YDP164, Korg PA700, Roland XPS10, Korg Wave drum.

Re: Kawai CA 78 user - observation and issues
vikas khandelwal #2862188 06/24/19 02:22 AM
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Hello Vikas,

Thank you for the update.

I'm afraid I am unable to see the video, however I am aware that the sound will cut when alternating between "Pianist mode" and "Sound mode" - this is unavoidable, due to the change in sound engine software.

If the sound cut-outs during normal playing, this is not intentional and should be followed-up with the dealer.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Kawai CA 78 user - observation and issues
Kawai James #2862189 06/24/19 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Hello Vikas,

Thank you for the update.

I'm afraid I am unable to see the video, however I am aware that the sound will cut when alternating between "Pianist mode" and "Sound mode" - this is unavoidable, due to the change in sound engine software. If the sound cut-outs during normal playing, this is not intentional and should be follow-up with the dealer.

Kind regards,
James
x

the sound cuts off during normal play. I have shared the example tp explain what kind of sound cut i get during normal play. are you getting any error downloading the video ?


Kawai CA78, Korg Kronos, Yamaha YDP164, Korg PA700, Roland XPS10, Korg Wave drum.

Re: Kawai CA 78 user - observation and issues
vikas khandelwal #2862193 06/24/19 03:10 AM
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Hello Vikas,

Thank you for clarifying this point.

I am unable to download the video without entering an email address. However, if the video simply demonstrates that the sound cuts when alternating between Pianist mode and Sound mode, I don't believe it's necessary for me to watch.

The sound should not cut-out while playing. If this does happen, please try to make a video and seek assistance from your dealer.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Kawai CA 78 user - observation and issues
Kawai James #2862859 06/26/19 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Hello Vikas,

Thank you for clarifying this point.

I am unable to download the video without entering an email address. However, if the video simply demonstrates that the sound cuts when alternating between Pianist mode and Sound mode, I don't believe it's necessary for me to watch.

The sound should not cut-out while playing. If this does happen, please try to make a video and seek assistance from your dealer.

Kind regards,
James
x

I have shared video with dealer team member and awaiting response. unfortunately i was wary of this kind of response while selecting the piano. looks like I would have to restrict myself with poor quality control and absence of support with kawai. I am in the market for another digital piano for my son and I know this time I have to go with another brand.

Last edited by vkhandelwal; 06/26/19 05:20 AM.

Kawai CA78, Korg Kronos, Yamaha YDP164, Korg PA700, Roland XPS10, Korg Wave drum.

Re: Kawai CA 78 user - observation and issues
vikas khandelwal #2863159 06/26/19 11:01 PM
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Hello vkhandelwal,

May I ask if you're able to provide a video demonstrating the sound cutting-out while playing, please?
I'm aware that you previously tried to send a video of the sound cutting-out when alternating between Pianist mode and Sound mode, however as I mentioned, this is the normal behaviour and not a software bug/hardware problem.

If you are able to provide a video of the sound cutting-out while playing, I will try to look into the issue further.

If you have not done so already, please ensure that your CA78 is running the latest software by downloading the update files from the following URL:

http://www.kawai-global.com/support/updates/

Regarding your post, it's unfortunate that you are you still awaiting a response from your Kawai dealer, however may I kindly ask that you remain patient while they investigate your claim.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Kawai CA 78 user - observation and issues
Kawai James #2866171 07/05/19 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Hello vkhandelwal,

May I ask if you're able to provide a video demonstrating the sound cutting-out while playing, please?
I'm aware that you previously tried to send a video of the sound cutting-out when alternating between Pianist mode and Sound mode, however as I mentioned, this is the normal behaviour and not a software bug/hardware problem.

If you are able to provide a video of the sound cutting-out while playing, I will try to look into the issue further.

If you have not done so already, please ensure that your CA78 is running the latest software by downloading the update files from the following URL:

http://www.kawai-global.com/support/updates/

Regarding your post, it's unfortunate that you are you still awaiting a response from your Kawai dealer, however may I kindly ask that you remain patient while they investigate your claim.

Kind regards,
James
x


I was contacted by technician and explained both issues. he agreed that the music rest is rattling and informed that he will come back with suggested resolution
for the sound cut issue during play he checked over video and shared that the polyphony will run out as I was keeping the sustain pedal for a long time. I told him that I never faced the issue when I play other keyboards including korg kronos . even the yamaha piano which I purchased for my son does not replicate the issue playing the same song.

extremely disappointed with the way I am receiving support from kawai. Now I understand why they do not provide five year support in India as they do for countries like europe , australia and america.


Kawai CA78, Korg Kronos, Yamaha YDP164, Korg PA700, Roland XPS10, Korg Wave drum.

Re: Kawai CA 78 user - observation and issues
vikas khandelwal #2866176 07/05/19 04:12 AM
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Hello vkhandelwal,

Thank you for the update. I'm glad to hear you have been contacted by the technician - hopefully the music rest vibration will be resolved before too long.

Regarding the sound cut that you are experiencing, are you able to recreate this regularly? When working on the CA98/CA78 owner's manual, I had a CA78 prototype in the office which was played every day, however I don't believe that I ever experienced the sound cutting out in the way that you describe.

Regarding the warranty period, Kawai has subsidiary companies in Europe, America, and Australia, while Kawai instruments are sold in India through a distributor. Regardless, however, I don't believe the warranty period is related to the music rest vibration or sound cut that are you experience.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Kawai CA 78 user - observation and issues
vikas khandelwal #2866270 07/05/19 10:51 AM
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With a polyphony of 256 notes I don't think he should hear notes cutting... Unless he uses a piano sound + strings or something else... In this case the max polyphony will be 128 -- that it's still a decent polyphony for normal playing -- but of course you can easily reach this limit if you play with the sustain pedal always pressed. But why one should play with the sustain pedal always pressed? It will add too much resonance and so I think it will not sound very good...

Re: Kawai CA 78 user - observation and issues
magicpiano #2867257 07/08/19 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by magicpiano
With a polyphony of 256 notes I don't think he should hear notes cutting... Unless he uses a piano sound + strings or something else... In this case the max polyphony will be 128 -- that it's still a decent polyphony for normal playing -- but of course you can easily reach this limit if you play with the sustain pedal always pressed. But why one should play with the sustain pedal always pressed? It will add too much resonance and so I think it will not sound very good...

I am not playing with sustain pedal always pressed. it will sound muddy and overlapping after some time. As shared I have been playing multiple keyboards and have never experienced this. I am playing in artist mode and no dual voice..
with my korg kronos I have created patches with multiple instruments playing at the same time in performance mode. that includes piano, strings, chorus , pad etc.. and am yet to observe polyphony issues ( and I play similar songs and with similar technique)


Kawai CA78, Korg Kronos, Yamaha YDP164, Korg PA700, Roland XPS10, Korg Wave drum.

Re: Kawai CA 78 user - observation and issues
Kawai James #2867261 07/08/19 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Hello vkhandelwal,

Thank you for the update. I'm glad to hear you have been contacted by the technician - hopefully the music rest vibration will be resolved before too long.

Regarding the sound cut that you are experiencing, are you able to recreate this regularly? When working on the CA98/CA78 owner's manual, I had a CA78 prototype in the office which was played every day, however I don't believe that I ever experienced the sound cutting out in the way that you describe.

Regarding the warranty period, Kawai has subsidiary companies in Europe, America, and Australia, while Kawai instruments are sold in India through a distributor. Regardless, however, I don't believe the warranty period is related to the music rest vibration or sound cut that are you experience.

Kind regards,
James
x

Thank you James ! However I feel that kawai products are being let down by not so good QA and engineering team and inexperience technical support specially in places like mine.
I do not understand why Kawai does not support sound through USB port. bluetooth adds latency and audio through USB would have been a nice thing to have. also the ipad app which supports lower model does not support top end models like CA78/98. users of these are stuck with small inbuilt screen and cannot use ipad for larger screen experience.

I am yet to hear back from support for rattling sound from music rest which is very annoying.


Kawai CA78, Korg Kronos, Yamaha YDP164, Korg PA700, Roland XPS10, Korg Wave drum.

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