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Kawai GFII action #2852079
05/25/19 12:18 PM
05/25/19 12:18 PM
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RobR Offline OP
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I know there are a lot of threads about the GF action but i think my issue/dilemma is different to warrant a new thread...so please bare with me and look for the bold line below smile

I'm currently shopping for the best action i can find on a digital. I was classically trained on Yamaha uprights and played a handful of Yamaha grands in concerts (performing my own music). The decision years ago to sell my Yamaha U1 and go completely digital is the same reason that everyone else has: I prefer playing at night mostly and don't want neighbors to hear etc....(we all know the rest).

The obvious choice based on this forum is the MP11SE. So i went today and played a CA78 and i was shocked how underwhelmed was by the action:

1- The key fall had a spongy feeling as opposed to hard surface and that really killed the whole experience for me.

2- I loathed the ivory finish on the black keys. I felt so distracting and instantly muted my connection with the instrument.

3- The black keys were narrower than what i'm used to on Yamaha grands. It also added to the disconnection.

I then played an FP-90. At first, i played it while turned off and things didn't look very promising. Then i turned it on and played the "concert grand" patch and it all made sense. I liked the action. It has enough sensors for my trills and most importantly, the keys don't have the spongy fall, the rebound is hard just like the Yamaha acoustics i'm used to.

See where is this going? Here's the elephant in the room:

I keep comparing those actions to the action of the Yamaha C7X that i frequently go and jam on at my local Yamaha dealer.

Speaking of Yamaha, i tried this week the CLP 695 and the same exact thoughts i had on the GFII action also exactly apply here! I also tried most of the P series (except the P-515) and while those didn't have that spongy fall, they didn't feel much "weighted" to me compared to the FP-90.


So my questions are:

1- Does the GF on the MP11SE have that spongy fall too ?
2- How about the RM3 on the VPC1 ?
3- Will the N1X be my only choice if i keep comparing those actions to the C7X ?
4- How about the Casio GP500? How is the action?

Bottom line, i can go the FP-90 but i keep saying deep in my mind that there...must...be...something...better.

Thoughts?

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Re: Kawai GFII action [Re: RobR] #2852080
05/25/19 12:27 PM
05/25/19 12:27 PM
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dmd Offline
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Can you clarify what you mean by "key fall" ?

I looked it up on the internet and found nothing.

I know keys do not "fall", you have to push them down.

Do you mean spongy feel (at the bottom) when you push the key down to the bottom ?


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Edifier R1850DB Active Bookshelf Speakers, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs
Re: Kawai GFII action [Re: dmd] #2852081
05/25/19 12:29 PM
05/25/19 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by dmd
.

Do you mean spongy feel (at the bottom) when you push the key down to the bottom ?


Yes!

I share the same thoughts the OP explained in this thread: http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2730116/re-kawai-gfii-action-squishy-feel.html

Last edited by RobR; 05/25/19 12:32 PM.
Re: Kawai GFII action [Re: RobR] #2852088
05/25/19 12:54 PM
05/25/19 12:54 PM
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If you want the best possible action try one of the hybrids ?

Re: Kawai GFII action [Re: RobR] #2852090
05/25/19 12:56 PM
05/25/19 12:56 PM
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To be clear, i know the word "fall" felt misleading.

Other words to describe it: squishy, spongy feeling....leading to a slower passive rebound than what i'm used to.

Sorry for the misleading grammar!

Re: Kawai GFII action [Re: Morten Olsson] #2852091
05/25/19 12:59 PM
05/25/19 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
If you want the best possible action try one of the hybrids ?

I can't afford an N1X, unless i sell my Kronos 61 synth, which i'm not planning to, as i may need it for live gigs (i play electric jazz fusion occasionally) besides my solo piano repertoire.

GP500 : Possibly after discount....
Mp11SE or VPC1: Yes i can afford.

Also, what if i didn't like the action of the N1X? None are available to test and you read what happened with my GFII experience. That's why my question was how close is the action on the N1X to something like the C7X (the elephant in the room!).

Last edited by RobR; 05/25/19 01:03 PM.
Re: Kawai GFII action [Re: RobR] #2852094
05/25/19 01:01 PM
05/25/19 01:01 PM
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I'm yet to see digital piano without this spongy feel. But it doesn't botter me that much. I'm used to it and I have no problems going to acoustic and back to GF II. Maybe give it a chance? Casio GP has the same "problem". I don't know about those true hybrids like N1X and Novus NV10.

Re: Kawai GFII action [Re: Nordomus] #2852096
05/25/19 01:04 PM
05/25/19 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Nordomus
I'm yet to see digital piano without this spongy feel. But it doesn't botter me that much. I'm used to it and I have no problems going to acoustic and back to GF II. Maybe give it a chance? Casio GP has the same "problem". I don't know about those true hybrids like N1X and Novus NV10.

Well the FP90 didn't have that feel and it has escapement. But it still left me with more to be desired.

Re: Kawai GFII action [Re: RobR] #2852110
05/25/19 01:38 PM
05/25/19 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by RobR
Originally Posted by dmd
.

Do you mean spongy feel (at the bottom) when you push the key down to the bottom ?


Yes!

I share the same thoughts the OP explained in this thread: http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2730116/re-kawai-gfii-action-squishy-feel.html



Well, I do not feel a soft/squishy bottom when I press the keys down.

I do not feel a plank either.

It comes to the bottom and stops …. not like it hit a cement floor …. but not a sponge either …. firm bottom.


Of course, as you know ….. none of these descriptions is sufficient for you to make a decision on … you have to play one in order to make your decision.




Last edited by dmd; 05/25/19 01:40 PM.

Don

Kawai MP11SE, Edifier R1850DB Active Bookshelf Speakers, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs
Re: Kawai GFII action [Re: dmd] #2852121
05/25/19 02:07 PM
05/25/19 02:07 PM
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Gotcha, not possible to do (play MP11SE). All i have access to is the CA58 and CA78 -----> which is the action i'm basing my "rant" one frown

Re: Kawai GFII action [Re: RobR] #2852128
05/25/19 02:28 PM
05/25/19 02:28 PM
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Rob, I would buy the MP11SE and call it a day, unless you want to wait until the next NAMM. The action is the best one you can get, perfect for any grand piano you will play on. There are some old grand pianos with extra heavy actions, but normally the new ones with a Renner action are never heavier than the MP11SE. The soft bottom feeling you are talking about is not an issue, because whatever felt is under the keys, it will get more compressed with usage. Actually you will love it, because it's as quiet as a mouse.

Re: Kawai GFII action [Re: pold] #2852129
05/25/19 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by pold
The soft bottom feeling you are talking about is not an issue, because whatever felt is under the keys, it will get more compressed with usage. Actually you will love it, because it's as quiet as a mouse.

So maybe that is the case with all pianos?

Re: Kawai GFII action [Re: pold] #2852130
05/25/19 02:38 PM
05/25/19 02:38 PM
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That’s interesting pold about the felt getting more compressed. I also didn’t like the ebony grainy finish on the black keys. From checking the Kawai action webpage, the MP11SE doesn’t have that, correct?

Re: Kawai GFII action [Re: pold] #2852131
05/25/19 02:39 PM
05/25/19 02:39 PM
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dmd Offline
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Originally Posted by pold
Rob, I would buy the MP11SE and call it a day ...


+1

That is what I did and have not experienced a single moment of regret.

Very high quality machine.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Edifier R1850DB Active Bookshelf Speakers, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs
Re: Kawai GFII action [Re: RobR] #2852132
05/25/19 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by RobR
I

1- The key fall had a spongy feeling as opposed to hard surface and that really killed the whole experience for me.



I understand what you mean by that spongy feeling. I have CA58 the piano is good but im not that impress with the key. If I do it over I will pick a Yamaha CLP 645. I went to try the CLP645 again, it confirm my thought on this. the Yamaha key feel solid and firm when hit.
I feel like I need to put more effort to control on the Kawai than Yamaha.

Re: Kawai GFII action [Re: RobR] #2852135
05/25/19 03:00 PM
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It really is a bummer such a popular machine with pianists (at least from what i read on this forum) is not available at all Kawai dealerships worldwide. My dealer does have the CA78 and CA58 though....go figure.

Re: Kawai GFII action [Re: Nordomus] #2852136
05/25/19 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Nordomus
Originally Posted by pold
The soft bottom feeling you are talking about is not an issue, because whatever felt is under the keys, it will get more compressed with usage. Actually you will love it, because it's as quiet as a mouse.

So maybe that is the case with all pianos?


Yes, any material will be hit hard and compress, if you play a lot smile

Re: Kawai GFII action [Re: RobR] #2852139
05/25/19 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by RobR
That’s interesting pold about the felt getting more compressed. I also didn’t like the ebony grainy finish on the black keys. From checking the Kawai action webpage, the MP11SE doesn’t have that, correct?


I don't remember any grainy stuff, it felt like any other grand piano, simply great. Don't expect the internal sound to be better than a vst, but I am sure you are prepared to that smile

Re: Kawai GFII action [Re: RobR] #2852141
05/25/19 03:06 PM
05/25/19 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by pold
Originally Posted by Nordomus
Originally Posted by pold
The soft bottom feeling you are talking about is not an issue, because whatever felt is under the keys, it will get more compressed with usage. Actually you will love it, because it's as quiet as a mouse.

So maybe that is the case with all pianos?


Yes, any material will be hit hard and compress, if you play a lot smile

Yeah obviously but I wonder to what degree and in what time smile


Originally Posted by RobR
I also didn’t like the ebony grainy finish on the black keys.

I'm not sure yet but it's possible that it will change after some time as well. It did on Roland HP 605 I had few years back. It was smooth after a year or so.

Re: Kawai GFII action [Re: pold] #2852143
05/25/19 03:09 PM
05/25/19 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by pold
Originally Posted by RobR
That’s interesting pold about the felt getting more compressed. I also didn’t like the ebony grainy finish on the black keys. From checking the Kawai action webpage, the MP11SE doesn’t have that, correct?


I don't remember any grainy stuff, it felt like any other grand piano, simply great. Don't expect the internal sound to be better than a vst, but I am sure you are prepared to that smile

Yep i guess that confirms that it doesn't have it. It seems to be one of the "upgrades" they did with the GFII....and i didn't like it at all.

Yes of course i'm prepared, no worries. Actually the "concert grand" on the ES8 that i played was not bad at all, so were the electric pianos. On the CA78 though, the sound was not to my liking. Let's just say that there was nothing positive about my CA78 experience frown

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